Can anyone explain the salary cap?

[Orangeisback]

How is that the Eagles are about to pay Hurts, two high priced WRs a solid OL, Saquon Barkley and a defense that is solid?

How does this work? Just wondering if there are people that can explain it and while I'm on the issue...should it be so complicated where most fans can't explain or care?

 

[Southieinnc]

Yes

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

The Eagles FO signed a bunch of void year contracts... those numbers are massive for Smith/Hurts/Brown... void years accelerate to the current year if you make a cut, so basically the Eagles are in 100% win now mode and will be cap starved and irrelevant in a few years. Now if you resign those players it gets spread over that term, but either way it's a big hit.

Now of course, if you 'hit' on a few draft picks - that all changes. That's the dream. That's a tall order...

To sum it up. The Eagles are in win now mode. They've heavily mortgaged their future to keep the existing roster and 'technically' should be irrelevant in 2028 or so... but good draft picks and a healthy/elite starting QB can make things otherwise..

The big thing you want to understand @Orangeisback is dead cap and cap hit. Teams are required to be at or under the salary cap each season, but teams can structure contracts and push cap into later years... however, in the Eagles situation it eventually catches up. It's a money management game and when you do something like the Eagles did, you have less to spend in future years because you have to pay that commitment. Seattle got in trouble with this over the last couple years because they kept kicking the can down the road with restructures.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Having an owner that will fork up his cold, hard cash. That’s how

 

[Orangeisback]

Having an owner that will fork up his cold, hard cash. That’s how

But every owner can only spend so much. That never makes sense. It's not the amount but what you spend it on.

To me, and for a long time I've believed this. The two most common elements of championship teams is a good to great OL and a good to great defense.

A solid OL makes a good QB great (ask Aikman.) Makes a good QB average. It opens up an effective balanced offense which is far more problematic for teams that are pass heavy. Still not one QB that passed for 5000 yards ever won a SB the year they passed for that. Not once has a QB that had 600 attempts won a SB that year. That will change soon enough due to the 17 games.


Not once btw has the highest paid QB won a SB the year he was the highest paid. Hard cap since 1994. That's 30 years.

 

[DrewScott]

Yes, there is a salary cap, but teams find a way to go over it, so not really.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Yes, there is a salary cap, but teams find a way to go over it, so not really.

hell the league helps them find ways around. How the cap worked years ago to the way they do it today. Completely different.

 

[Rowdy]

It’s because howie is a fucking genius and knows way more about the cap than any other gm in the league. Hell, he wrote the rules for the nfl. Amiright @Iggloo and Funfags ?

 

[Iggloo]

The Eagles have a good cap guy, Howie Roseman, who basically figured out you can push contracts into future years forever through balloon payments and other perfectly legal gimmicks.

Certain Cowboys fans like @jarntt have cried Chicken Little for years, saying the Philly scheme will fail and the team will be in cap hell for years. The day never comes because the truth is the league is growing and the cap generally grows every year, often more than anticipated.

The Eagles are also generally good at identifying the good players they drafted well before their free agent contracts, and re-signing them before they hit the open market--unlike, say, Dallas, which waits until the last minute, drags out the negotiations for drama under Jerry Jones, then eventually signs the players to even more expensive, top-dollar deals anyway.

Philly did the early signing thing with Hurts, Jordan Mailata and many others to get good players signed to what turn out to be below-market deals. The players are generally happy because they started getting more earlier and accept the compromise. Other than Haason Reddick, who clearly was a knucklehead, they rarely get into contract disputes over this tactic.

 

[Iggloo]

The Eagles FO signed a bunch of void year contracts... those numbers are massive for Smith/Hurts/Brown... void years accelerate to the current year if you make a cut, so basically the Eagles are in 100% win now mode and will be cap starved and irrelevant in a few years. Now if you resign those players it gets spread over that term, but either way it's a big hit.

Now of course, if you 'hit' on a few draft picks - that all changes. That's the dream. That's a tall order...

To sum it up. The Eagles are in win now mode. They've heavily mortgaged their future to keep the existing roster and 'technically' should be irrelevant in 2028 or so... but good draft picks and a healthy/elite starting QB can make things otherwise..

The big thing you want to understand @Orangeisback is dead cap and cap hit. Teams are required to be at or under the salary cap each season, but teams can structure contracts and push cap into later years... however, in the Eagles situation it eventually catches up. It's a money management game and when you do something like the Eagles did, you have less to spend in future years because you have to pay that commitment. Seattle got in trouble with this over the last couple years because they kept kicking the can down the road with restructures.

While this is technically true, what the Eagles figured out was that there was little risk with structuring contracts in this way, if you belived the star players would remain good. There was no world in which, say, AJ Brown was going to be cut anyway so these big dead cap hits didn't really matter.

The only risk was really if they suffered major injuries or otherwise saw their play fall off a cliff. With, say, Lane Johnson, there was little risk for years (other than a steroid suspension) from having these big dead cap years, because the guy was going to play and play well, so long as he was healthy.

They did obviously take a risk with signing Hurts to a big contract. So far I would say he has been merely good, and is never likely to become a great one. But he is a pretty stoic, unflappable guy, Hurts, and is very good as a runner, so I can seriously see them winning a ring with him at some point. So I would say at this point that the Hurts deal looks decent.

 

[chillerdab]

The eagles can sign all those players and be under the salary cap through creative, perfectly legal cheating.

They also sign good players early, like the eagle fan said and thus their contracts look really manageable after the next free agent qb or whatever signs a bigger, more expensive contract.

They slso choose who they sign wisely - like signing saquon and AJ Brown and not signing somebody like Daniel Jones.

I wrote this post just to say that the eagles are cheaters (they’re not, really) and to laugh at the Giants for letting the obvious talent go in favor of a dopey, fairly terrible qb that everybody but them knew was a dopey, fairly terrible qb, except for redskins fans maybe, who were the only team he routinely torched.

That just goes to show you how terrible Rivera was: his team were routinely elu torched by the backup to Sam Darnold.

 

[justanidiot]

it still beats the NHL where the teams trade off players during the season that can all play in the playoffs since the cap does not count in the playoffs. Thats how Tampa and Florida get there every year.

We are going to eventually see the teams able to choose one contract to be cap exempt so everyone can have a 60- million dollar a year quarterback.

 

[jarntt]

The Eagles have a good cap guy, Howie Roseman, who basically figured out you can push contracts into future years forever through balloon payments and other perfectly legal gimmicks.

Certain Cowboys fans like @jarntt have cried Chicken Little for years, saying the Philly scheme will fail and the team will be in cap hell for years. The day never comes because the truth is the league is growing and the cap generally grows every year, often more than anticipated.

The Eagles are also generally good at identifying the good players they drafted well before their free agent contracts, and re-signing them before they hit the open market--unlike, say, Dallas, which waits until the last minute, drags out the negotiations for drama under Jerry Jones, then eventually signs the players to even more expensive, top-dollar deals anyway.

Philly did the early signing thing with Hurts, Jordan Mailata and many others to get good players signed to what turn out to be below-market deals. The players are generally happy because they started getting more earlier and accept the compromise. Other than Haason Reddick, who clearly was a knucklehead, they rarely get into contract disputes over this tactic.

You guys are such morons. I've been the one saying since Wentz that Howie is not a good cap guy, the cap is simply math and it is because he just kicks the can down the road. That was the discussion and the entire point I was making: kicking the can down the road. Now you have admitted that this is indeed his strategy, but all of a sudden you agree with the kicking the can down the road part, but think it's a good thing because funbags said it last year. Some things never change. What I also said was Howie has gotten out from under it by trading guys like Wentz and other players over the years and not resigning guys that he otherwise would have. Again, it's math. There is no skill. Howie is borderline reckless with that math. Want the proof? The reason you lost last year was because of your cap issues. Look at all of the players that were starters for you OR for the team you lost them to and it was 100% cap related. If you hadn't gone out and restructured everyone possible and spent every penny you wouldn't have lost your best pass rushing DT, all of your LBers (remember your horrendous LBer play last year???), your dynamic DB and other players. You just make crap up. Again, you had one of the biggest, most embarrassing collapses in NFL history last year (and one that had you crying on here about) and a huge part of that was because of all of the guys you lost from the year before - Jason Hargrave, CJGJ, TJ Edwards, Kyzir White, Dillard, etc.

 

[Iggloo]

Jarntt still taking the Ls I see. LOL.

I didn't say Howie was a genius, but he figured out how to make the system work. He frankly built on what his predecessor, Joe Banner, had started in terms of the cap management stuff, it wasn't even fully his idea. But he is good at doing this. You seem to have a hard time admitting this, still.

It never really blows up in his face, and never will at this rate because Howie has drafted pretty well in the past few years and added a lot of starting young talent to the defense on rookie deals.

The issues last year were with coaching and with some player personnel decisions that did not pan out, as much as any cap constraints. And the team still made the playoffs! What are the reasons for Dallas's cap constraints and poor roster by the way?

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

While this is technically true, what the Eagles figured out was that there was little risk with structuring contracts in this way, if you belived the star players would remain good. There was no world in which, say, AJ Brown was going to be cut anyway so these big dead cap hits didn't really matter.

The only risk was really if they suffered major injuries or otherwise saw their play fall off a cliff. With, say, Lane Johnson, there was little risk for years (other than a steroid suspension) from having these big dead cap years, because the guy was going to play and play well, so long as he was healthy.

They did obviously take a risk with signing Hurts to a big contract. So far I would say he has been merely good, and is never likely to become a great one. But he is a pretty stoic, unflappable guy, Hurts, and is very good as a runner, so I can seriously see them winning a ring with him at some point. So I would say at this point that the Hurts deal looks decent.

Oh I know. I was just saying how it worked. IMO they were all good signings, I'm just saying if they got injured or got fat/happy at some point the void years come back. Now pushing it out does work and plenty of NFL teams do it, but where they can get in trouble is if they have a few bad drafts and can't hit on any free agents (kind of like Seattle lol). And then the Rams basically said, "Eh fuck it, just sign everyone and then we'll just have a huge cap hit year and suck." Except they drafted well and still had the best DT in NFL history to basically take over the entire defense. And then he retired and they got Fiske/Verse/Turner... fuckin Rams...

 

[Tainthappening]

Yes there is a cap... but it is a "soft" cap... unsure when "voidable" years started showing up, but that made it even more soft and able to push more money out in the future. There can be a "reset" for 1-2 years at some point... but if teams have a window to win it all they can continue to push money out more easily now.

Packers were pushing out money for years with their window... then did a reset when moved on from Adams and Rodgers.

If there was a "hard cap" free agency would look very different IMO.

 

[Iggloo]

One interesting cap test with Philly will be whether they can re-sign Zack Baun who just made the Pro Bowl and has been huge for them at linebacker. I think they find a way to get him back, but it could be tough. They did draft Jeremiah Trotter Jr. at that position but Baun is playing at a super high level under Vic Fangio.

 

[BearsWillWin]

Yes there is a cap... but it is a "soft" cap... unsure when "voidable" years started showing up, but that made it even more soft and able to push more money out in the future. There can be a "reset" for 1-2 years at some point... but if teams have a window to win it all they can continue to push money out more easily now.

Packers were pushing out money for years with their window... then did a reset when moved on from Adams and Rodgers.

If there was a "hard cap" free agency would look very different IMO.

The NFL is a hard salary cap. You can't spend more than the set limit. There's no luxury tax for going over, you simply can't go over.

There are rollovers that allow you to spend more in certain years and you can structure deals and get creative to prolong payments. But it's still a hard cap.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Yes there is a cap... but it is a "soft" cap... unsure when "voidable" years started showing up, but that made it even more soft and able to push more money out in the future. There can be a "reset" for 1-2 years at some point... but if teams have a window to win it all they can continue to push money out more easily now.

Packers were pushing out money for years with their window... then did a reset when moved on from Adams and Rodgers.

If there was a "hard cap" free agency would look very different IMO.

It's been around for quite some time. DeSean Jackson who signed with the Skins (in 2014) had it, but the Skins couldn't afford him on a 3 year deal so they added the 4th voidable year. I remember some NFL/ESPN analysts wondering how Washington did that.

All a void year means is you are signing a contract for a number of years but you never intend on paying for the final year.... and if you release/move that player, you take the dead cap hit later.

The advantage to that is for teams that want to win now. Dead cap is not horrible, as long as you're signing impact players and using your cap space to keep other players around as pushing out salary cap is generally an advantage assuming the cap increases YOY. Dead cap is not a bad thing, but too much of it can be as you might be throwing a season unless you hit the draft lottery.

The Eagles have the highest voidable dead cap as of right now for 2025 and 2026. Is that a bad thing? Well, you don't want the number TOO high... you can resign the player and continue pushing the money out, but eventually it will catch up, and then you have to hope you draft very well and take a big hit one year which will certainly impact your team.

Going back to the original poster (@Orangeisback ), this is how you sign multiple players and make big splashes in free agency and load your roster... the advantage is - you get a talented roster for fairly cheap and hopefully win a Super Bowl (which makes it all worthwhile, like the Rams did - who also just traded all their draft capital). The downside is if folks get injured or don't work out, you've basically doomed your team in the near future. This is LESS of an issue when you put voidable years on stars in the league or a good QB (like Hurts) because you're not letting them walk regardless... however, those voidable years still do catch up, and the Eagles will need to push the cap further by 2026 (2025 they're already nearing $60M, 2026 it's almost $90M).

Now let's take a look at Hurts:



So 2029 if the Eagles cut him they owe him ALL that. Dead cap... that's $100M or so, which just sinks a team. That doesn't go away... and if they extend him, it doesn't go away either... so either tank for a year and clear it (basically good luck fielding an average team unless you SLAY the draft over those couple previous years) OR extend him and somehow build that $150M INTO that extension. So a 4 year $250M extension is really a 4 year $350M extension and then you structure the cap appropriately to handle it. Which in 2029 may not be that big of a deal.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Erm some of my math didn't add up. The full void years accelerate (so $150M) unless you resign him so you can build that $150M into an extension and kick the can further down the road. Not horrible with a QB since the average salary by 2030 will prob. be $70M-80M for a good QB.... but the Eagles did this with other players as well. Hence the have a cap decision to make come 2025 and especially 2026 that doesn't even involve Hurts.

Eventually if you keep kicking the can down the road... you wouldn't even be able to field a roster lol.. but these NFL orgs have plenty of smart guys that can do the math/crunch the numbers. There's a level of risk to both using and not using void years.