Byrd and Buck

[pixburgher66]

Vic Black was the PTBNL. I can live with that.

I like Black a lot...but he wasn't going to break into our pen for this year. And they can replace him quite easily in the future. That said, velocity like his doesn't fall into your lap.

 

[element1286]

Perhaps an erroneous report, but that's what I read.

Too much, IMO.

I get the reasoning, but still too much.

 

[element1286]

Pirates optioned LHP Jeff Locke to Double-A Altoona.

Locke had an ERA of 2.15 just a month ago, but he's really struggled since then, putting up an 8.10 mark to go along with a 2.33 WHIP. He had been slated to start on Sunday against the Cardinals, but the Pirates will obviously have to call someone else up for that outing. Jeanmar Gomez and Brandon Cumpton are options.

Good, he needed to be skipped.

 

[Darkstone42]

Jim Callis has a tweet which seems to confirm Black's inclusion.

It's a tough piece to give up, but perhaps we know something about him, like, for example, he's going to turn into Craig Hansen.

 

[thecrow124]

Locke and Sanchez were both sent to Altoona until their season ends and then they can return to the Pirates.

I am fine with the addition of Black in the trade, he really didn't have much of a future with the Pirates. He is a 1 inning pitcher and the Pirates are set for quite some time with 1 inning pitchers. Watson, Wilson, Melancon, Grilli are all better options and will all be here for at least next season.

Not sure who would start for Locke on Sunday, my guess would be Cumpton, but he hasn't been good since he was sent down last time. Possibly Kris Johnson since the Cards seem to have some issues hitting lefties.

 

[Darkstone42]

Locke and Sanchez were both sent to Altoona until their season ends and then they can return to the Pirates.

I am fine with the addition of Black in the trade, he really didn't have much of a future with the Pirates. He is a 1 inning pitcher and the Pirates are set for quite some time with 1 inning pitchers. Watson, Wilson, Melancon, Grilli are all better options and will all be here for at least next season.

Not sure who would start for Locke on Sunday, my guess would be Cumpton, but he hasn't been good since he was sent down last time. Possibly Kris Johnson since the Cards seem to have some issues hitting lefties.

Johnson did look good out of the bullpen in his very short stint with the Bucs earlier this year.

What's Phil Irwin doing these days?

 

[pixburgher66]

I'm all about Jeanmar getting the start.

 

[thedddd]

To be honest both Black and Herrera were blocked in the Pirate organization. I am not for the "must trade to make a trade" philophy and I highly doubt anyone is with any logical thought. I don't consider this trade a win but really a push for both sides. They both got a need one team filled holes for a playoff run and the other got prospects for guys who were gone at the end of the season anyway.

I am happy they made this deal because they had a glaring weakness that needed filled ASAP we should be lucky this weakness got exposed prior to August 31st.

When thinking back to the Lee/Ludwick deals I think what made folks complain back then their lineup was awful and McCutchen fell off huge near the end of that season. If that deal would have happened last season I think a lot more folks would have liked it, ala the deal this year.

Not a huge fan of Marlon Byrd but at this point a warm body would be better than their RF's.

 

[thedddd]

The final surprising thing is that I am amazed a team like the D-Backs or Reds didn't put in a waiver claim on Byrd to block the Pirates.

 

[thecrow124]

Johnson did look good out of the bullpen in his very short stint with the Bucs earlier this year.

What's Phil Irwin doing these days?

Filthy Phil is still being injured same with Kyle McPherson. Not sure if either of them are even throwing a baseball at this point. I could be wrong but it seems like I read somewhere that one of the two had tj surgery.

 

[thecrow124]

The final surprising thing is that I am amazed a team like the D-Backs or Reds didn't put in a waiver claim on Byrd to block the Pirates.

It would have been useless. These were revocable waivers so they could have blocked now but then the Mets could have placed Byrd on waivers a second time and he would have gone to the Pirates regardless. Another scenario would have been that the Mets would have said fine he is yours without even trying to work out a trade. I think the fact that both teams knew that the Mets were going to move him kept them from blocking the Pirates.

 

[thecrow124]

Just went and looked.

McPherson had tj surgery on July 10, 2013.

Irwin had ulnar nerve transposition surgery on July 3, 2013. I have to admit I have no idea what this procedure is. The ulnar nerve is the nerve you hit when you hit your funny bone. It is also the nerve that gives you feeling in your middle finger and the inside of the adjacent ring finger, so I can fully understand how if there is an issue with it it could cause significant issues trying to grip a baseball.

 

[Darkstone42]

Just went and looked.

McPherson had tj surgery on July 10, 2013.

Irwin had ulnar nerve transposition surgery on July 3, 2013. I have to admit I have no idea what this procedure is. The ulnar nerve is the nerve you hit when you hit your funny bone. It is also the nerve that gives you feeling in your middle finger and the inside of the adjacent ring finger, so I can fully understand how if there is an issue with it it could cause significant issues trying to grip a baseball.

Wow, I had somehow completely missed his injury. Well that's unfortunate.

 

[pixburgher66]

Just went and looked.

McPherson had tj surgery on July 10, 2013.

Irwin had ulnar nerve transposition surgery on July 3, 2013. I have to admit I have no idea what this procedure is. The ulnar nerve is the nerve you hit when you hit your funny bone. It is also the nerve that gives you feeling in your middle finger and the inside of the adjacent ring finger, so I can fully understand how if there is an issue with it it could cause significant issues trying to grip a baseball.[/QU

Often times they move the nerve in addition to repairing the UCL in TJ surgery. The ulnar nerve travels through the canal on the inside of your elbow (if you poke at it, you'll know...can feel the nerve), and sometimes you'll run into neurological issues (esp. pitchers) with it in that region, so they go in and move the nerve's path, often putting it onto the front of the forearm instead. I'm drawing a blank on how long the recovery is here...but it's not TJ surgery.

 

[steelparrot]

I'm pretty sure you can only be put on revocable waivers once in Aug and once in September.

If they waived him again, it would have been like waivers outside of Aug/Sept.

 

[sychmd]

Anything can happen in the playoffs. That's why the Giants have two World Series titles with their current core. They won the Series with Juan Uribe getting regular at bats.

And anything can happen in future years. Once you're contending, you go for it. Ask the Nationals about that. Because next year, Cutch could suffer a serious injury, Pedro could forget how to hit, Cole's arm could fall off. Anything could happen.

the giants won because they caught some luck, got great performances by many role players, but they also had lincecum, cain, baumgardner, posey, sandoval, and wilson as bonafide stars along with the average to above average guys they had.
we dont have those kind of guys this year.

black and herrera, those are 2 good pieces. special skills. i am not sold on either being essential pieces to our future, but they make good package stuffers for the real pieces we still need to add in years 14-17, but now have less pieces to trade to get them.
we wont win the WS, the NL, and will be lucky to win a divisional series even with byrd and buck.

 

[Darkstone42]

the giants won because they caught some luck, got great performances by many role players, but they also had lincecum, cain, baumgardner, posey, sandoval, and wilson as bonafide stars along with the average to above average guys they had.
we dont have those kind of guys this year.

black and herrera, those are 2 good pieces. special skills. i am not sold on either being essential pieces to our future, but they make good package stuffers for the real pieces we still need to add in years 14-17, but now have less pieces to trade to get them.
we wont win the WS, the NL, and will be lucky to win a divisional series even with byrd and buck.

Last year, Lincecum wasn't that good. I think we can get almost as much out of Liriano and Burnett as they got from Cain and Bumgardner, Morton can provide Zito's production, McCutchen matches up well with Posey, Pedro with Sandoval, and Melancon/Grilli with Wilson. I think our team this year is just as good as last year's Giants team. But like you said, the Giants got lucky and went on a heck of a run. Who's to say, though, that we won't, too? Pedro could get red hot at the right time. McCutchen is McCutchen, Marte should be back, Byrd, Martin, Sanchez, Walker and Mercer can all contribute, and our pitching could stay as good as it's been, and we'll not be an easy out.

 

[sychmd]

all the guys you mention for the giants had a track record of doing well, and doing well in the clutch. none of our guys have that. cutch doesnt. burnett did 10 years ago in one year/series.

then they had scutaro and melky hitting above 340 with posey at 333.

we dont have the horses this year that even the lucky winners have. to win the WS, you have to have a stable of high quality performers.

 

[element1286]

all the guys you mention for the giants had a track record of doing well, and doing well in the clutch. none of our guys have that. cutch doesnt. burnett did 10 years ago in one year/series.

then they had scutaro and melky hitting above 340 with posey at 333.

we dont have the horses this year that even the lucky winners have. to win the WS, you have to have a stable of high quality performers.

Meh, none of them have had the opportunity, doesn't seem to be a reason to discount them.

But overall, I agree, the Pirates don't have a ton of guys that have been year over year above average.

 

[thecrow124]

I'm pretty sure you can only be put on revocable waivers once in Aug and once in September.

If they waived him again, it would have been like waivers outside of Aug/Sept.

Players can be placed on revocable waivers once and trade waivers once. So if unable to work out a trade on revocable waiversthat waiving team could either pull the player back or just give up the player to the claiming team. Arizona nor Cincinatti could afford to have the Mets dump Byrd on them because they would have to put him on their 25 man rosters. Hence the reason he got through to the Pirates.