Buddy Ryan is Dead at 82

[Manster7588]

I think it was 91. They gave up a thousand less yards then Denver's #1 D last year.

Were they best in points?

 

[Ricky Roma]

I didn't care much for Buddy Ryan the person, but I see a lot of nonsense in this thread concerning his 'legacy.'

First....the 46 defense, much like most things in the NFL, was never 'solved.' Wait....it was solved, when guys like Singletary, Hampton, Dent, Fencik, Duerson, Marshall, Wilson, etc. etc. either retired, left for another team or were on the back end of their career. Or the 46 defense was solved when other teams/coaches tried to emulate it, like the Atlanta Falcons of that era, without said players....and they sucked.

The Bears defense were a dominant group for a good 5 years when most of those guys were at their peak. Just because the team only won one Super Bowl doesn't delude any evaluation of that defense itself. I'd put it right behind the 70's Steelers as best defense I've ever seen, and I'd say that if they hadn't won that one Bowl.

Secondly, it seems people think they ran that 46 on every down, when the fact is they may have ran that jailbreak a few times per game. They had some pretty generic fronts, and disguised very well as to what they were actually gonna do....which is what every team tries to do today. That's the biggest reason why the scheme itself was dominant.

Do I think he's one of the all time great D cords? I don't have much issue with his name being in a discussion. He's certainly no '1 hit wonder.'

 

[ATL96Steeler]

What's WNBA?

lol...Title 9 on the pro level?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I didn't care much for Buddy Ryan the person, but I see a lot of nonsense in this thread concerning his 'legacy.'

First....the 46 defense, much like most things in the NFL, was never 'solved.' Wait....it was solved, when guys like Singletary, Hampton, Dent, Fencik, Duerson, Marshall, Wilson, etc. etc. either retired, left for another team or were on the back end of their career. Or the 46 defense was solved when other teams/coaches tried to emulate it, like the Atlanta Falcons of that era, without said players....and they sucked.

The Bears defense were a dominant group for a good 5 years when most of those guys were at their peak. Just because the team only won one Super Bowl doesn't delude any evaluation of that defense itself. I'd put it right behind the 70's Steelers as best defense I've ever seen, and I'd say that if they hadn't won that one Bowl.

Secondly, it seems people think they ran that 46 on every down, when the fact is they may have ran that jailbreak a few times per game. They had some pretty generic fronts, and disguised very well as to what they were actually gonna do....which is what every team tries to do today. That's the biggest reason why the scheme itself was dominant.

Do I think he's one of the all time great D cords? I don't have much issue with his name being in a discussion. He's certainly no '1 hit wonder.'

How well has the Triangle OFC fared w/o MJ or Kobe? Or the Steelers 3-4 zone blitz Lebeau made famous without Casey Hampton? Or the WC OFC Walsh made famous...point being...special players make special schemes.

Without bias I think the Steel Curtain of the 70s was the best DEF to ever play because they were dominant and they were able to keep those players together a long time to sustain it....that said, Buddy Ryan's 46 of '85 was the best single season DEF the league has known.

In PHI he had HOF talent on that DL in Jerome Brown and Reggie White. I think all schemes that go on to produce great results, or become cornerstones of how the game is played today had great players running it.

 

[Iggloo]

The 1991 defense was brutal, no doubt, but to be clear, it was coached by Bud Carson. Buddy was fired earlier. It was all Buddy's players though.

 

[Iggloo]

As for Buddy coaching top defenses besides Bears though, he did it in Philly as well as Arizona and Houston. He almost always had good defenses in fact.

The 1993 Oilers were a really good team that went 12-4 but choked in the playoffs.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 1993 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

 

[Manster7588]

The 1991 defense was brutal, no doubt, but to be clear, it was coached by Bud Carson. Buddy was fired earlier. It was all Buddy's players though.

Wait a minute, I was led to believe he built the 91 defense that was #1 in both pass and rush yards. I'm sure the tap dance by PE1 is going to be special.

 

[Iggloo]

He did build it actually, it was all his players, but he wasn't around to run it that season, he'd been canned in favor of Richie Kotite.

 

[Manster7588]

He did build it actually, it was all his players, but he wasn't around to run it that season, he'd been canned in favor of Richie Kotite.

I got that, but PE1 the Eagle fan is crediting Ryan as though Ryan was in Philly in 1991.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

While I did get the QB wrong Buddy was a players coach and taught the players a lesson for being sell outs.

Landry great career has nothing to do with Buddy being an incredible D coordinator. You bring up a list of points that have NOTHING to do with the topic. Yes Landry was a much better head coach but you said that Landry was much more of an impact on Defenses which is laughable. Every where he went he created elite D's including TWO of the top 10 greatest D's ever including the best ever.

And yes... Any player turning their backs for personal gain over the betterment of the entire league woulda been hated in Philly. In sure you're one of those guys who feel sorry for the Walmart Walton family because they have to pay a lot of taxes while they piss on their employees.

I hate writing this because I loved Buddy as a coach and coordinator and never could stand Landry as an Eagles fan.


First off Buddy was pretty clear, if you want to cross the picket line, feel free to just do it as a team. He wasn't pro-strike. He just wanted the Eagles to choose as a team. If his team had crossed the picket line that week, they would have been on the field guaranteed.


As for lasting defensive legacy and impact. Landry by a fucking mile.

62 Packers variant of Landry's defense
85 bears variant of Landry's defense
00 Ravens Variant of Landry's defense
01 Bucs variant of Landry's defense
91 Eagles variant of Landry's defense
13 Seahawks variant of Landry's defense
Purple People Eaters variant of Landry's defense
Steel Curtain variant of Landry's defense.
Every base defense of the past 50 years variant of Landry's defense.

Buddy came up with the 46 which had some great years, granted his son's run defenses based on Landry, not their dad. Mike Singletary doesn't exist because Middle Linebacker wasn't a position until Landry created it.

Landry came up with the 4-3, the 43 flex, the inside linebacker, the zone blitz, the disguising defensive formations. Tampa 2, 46, 46 flex, even the 3-4 defense all are variations of what Landry created. You hear gap control, gap assignments, etc... Yup, Tom Landry right there. Every defense in the league today is still using that. The 3-4 is completely founded on the gap assignments Tom Landry innovated.


It's like Bill Walsh's impact to offenses. You may not call your offense a WCO today. You might not use the terminology. But you run the schemes, the routes, the focus on efficiency. Watch games from the 80's. Every single team runs what SF did then that nobody else was.

 

[Iggloo]

Yeah no one could seriously argue Ryan over Landry in terms of impact. But that doesn't mean Ryan is not a HOF coordinator.

 

[PDay8810]

The 1991 defense was brutal, no doubt, but to be clear, it was coached by Bud Carson. Buddy was fired earlier. It was all Buddy's players though.

another big year that year in philly

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Were they best in points?

Nope, their offense was AWFUL... Which is why they gave up fewer TD's, fewer yards per drive, but a lot more drives ended up in field goals. Hard not to score 3 points when you get the ball at the 50. They were short field all game and the offense was 3 and outs and turnovers....

Eagles run game disappeared without Cunningham (top 10 rusher the year before). 3.1 a carry by that team in 91 was dead last.

Eagles pass D disappeared without Cunningham, their 63 QB rating was 3rd worst.

The pick 6's the fumble returns for TD's, the safeties and just giving up the ball in or near scoring position (2nd worst in turnovers that year, gave up a lot of short field field goals).

It wasn't like teams put the ball in the end zone against them or moved it against them to score. Because teams did neither of those things.





That 91 Eagles D was amazing.

Figure the best ever O- line in NFL history was in that division. 9 sack season through 19 games and over half were by the Eagles in 2 of them.

Eagles were playing in a tough division. That was right in the middle of when 7 of the 10 SB's were won by the NFC East. Jimmy's Cowboys, Gibbs' Redskins, and Parcells' Giants. Eagles had 2 different 11 win teams in their division, 85 Bears had no one over .500.




85 bears... 4.4 yards per play
91 Eagles 3.9 yards per play (tied lowest since 1978 rule changes)

85 bears 236 1st downs allowed
91 Eagles 206 1st downs allowed (fewest in a 16 game season)

85 bears allowed 22 defensive TD's
91 Eagles allowed 20 defensive TD's allowed

85 Bears allowed 3.7 a carry, 6 rushing TD's allowed
01 Eagles allowed 3.0 a carry, 4 rushing TD's allowed (only team ever with YPC under 3 and TD's under 5)

85 bears gave up 4135 yards
91 Eagles gave up 3549 yards (fewest yards ever allowed in a 16 game season)

85 bears 6.3 yards per pass attempt
91 Eagles 6.0 yards per pass attempt (lowest since 1978 rule changes)

85 bears allowed a 47.7% comp rate (league average 54.8)
91 Eagles allowed 44.1% comp rate (league average 57.4, lowest since 1978 rule changes)

85 bears opponent QB rating 19.5 points below league average that year
91 Eagles opponent QB rating 22.1 points below league average that year

85 bears sack 10.9% of plays
91 Eagles sack 10.6% of the plays (3 fewer sacks per 1000 pass attempts, Eagles higher if Redskins weren't there)


85 bears had the sack advantage, point advantage (eagles high FG rates), turnover rate advantages (eagles still had most turnovers in the 90's)... but teams threw more against their #2 ranked offense. Of course teams played more conservatively against Philly which helps their edges.

But yeah that team goes down all time great in regular season performance. 85 Bears goes down higher because of what they did in the playoffs to me though.

 

[Ricky Roma]

That's why I don't care to simply mention a year where a player/unit/team did well...it may not really be that indicative of how truly good they were. The Eagles of the late 80's/early 90's certainly fielded very good defenses, but the reality is they weren't as good in general as their 1991 results show.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Other than 85 can someone tell me the other great defenses Ryan created

You've got to be kidding. Ryan had several great defenses.

He was the DL coach for the 68 Jets. He helped create the gameplan that held the heavily favored Colts to 7 points (averaged 28.7ppg) in SB3. He was the DL coach for Minnesota's legendary Purple People Eaters D-line (allowing less than 13ppg). That Vikings team went to the SB his first year there and lost in the NFCCG his 2nd year there. The next year, he became Chicago's DC.

People act like the 85 team was all he had in Chicago. That's just dead wrong. The only reason everyone remembers the 85 Bears is b/c they won the SB that year. It's not like they were chopped liver the other years. The Bears Defense in 84 and 86 were GREAT. It wasn't a one-year wonder that he built.

1984 - 3rd pts (15.5), 1st yds (241/game, 155pass, 86run), 72sacks, 21 INTs
1985 - 1st pts (12.4), 1st yds (258/game, 176pass, 82run), 66sacks, 34 INTs
1986 - 1st pts (11.7), 1st yds (258/game, 166pass, 91run), 62sacks, 31 INTs

The 84 defense averaged 4.5 sacks per game and set a single season sack record that still stands 32 years later!! That 84 team allowed fewer yards per game than the 85 defense. The only reason no one remembers the 84 defense was b/c they lost in the NFCCG to the SB-winning 49ers. That doesn't change the fact that it was a truly great defense in its own right. On the strength of the defense he put there, the Bears made the playoffs 8 times in 9 years.

He also had some good defenses with the late 80's, early 90's Eagles—particularly good at rushing the passer. His year in Houston was overshadowed by the Gilbride punch, but that OIler defense was very good. It finished 4th in points allowed, 1st against the run, and had 51 sacks on the year (more than 3 per game), while producing 3 pro bowlers on defense. That Oilers D had some great games—shutting out KC who went to the AFCCG, holding the playoff bound Steelers to just 3 points, and allowing only 7 points to the NFCCG-bound Niners.

There's no doubting that he was a great defensive pioneer and an excellent defensive coach.