Broncos coach search

[cdumler7]

So Vance Joseph will not be the DC for the Broncos. Cincinnati blocked him from leaving. Did not see that coming. Hoping Wade Phillips or Jim Schwartz gets a call to interview

 

[randymon]

Because Shanahan did it the year before he became a head coach. Like it or not, the NFL has changed a lot since Kubiak last won a Super Bowl. And Kubiak had a chance to bring a HOF qb to Houston, but decided he was good with Schaub.

Also, when the Broncos won their Super Bowls, Kubiak wasn't the one calling the plays, Shanahan was, just like Shanahan was calling the plays for the 49ers when they won in 94.

Again, I'm not saying Kubiak can't get it done, just that I'm skeptical. I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong on this.

Not disputing your claim of Shanny calling all the plays, but from what source do you claim that Kubiak had no influence on play calling as the OC? I hope it`s not based on presumptions from unreliable media sources.

 

[iknowftbll]

So Vance Joseph will not be the DC for the Broncos. Cincinnati blocked him from leaving. Did not see that coming. Hoping Wade Phillips or Jim Schwartz gets a call to interview

I didn't know they could do that. I thought as long as the move was upward the Broncos only had to inform the Bengals they were interested and if the candidate is interested as well the Bengals have to allow him to interview. This is how I've understood it, but maybe it only applies from OC/DC to HC. Or there is the off chance that I am wrong entirely.

 

[WalkerBoh]

That rule is only for candidates for a HC post. Other moves regardless of whether it's an upward move or not can be blocked.

 

[cdumler7]

What WalkerBoh said. Now most teams don't do it very often because usually that coach is not a happy camper knowing they had an opportunity to advance their career and that organization stopped that from happening.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Fox is a mediocre coach. Proof positive is the fact that he never finished with two winning seasons in a row in Carolina.

Idk if mediocre is the word, (he's taken 2 different teams to the SB)...imo he's the Marty Shottenhiemer of this era, only he could win in the playoffs until the most important game.

 

[cdumler7]

Idk if mediocre is the word, (he's taken 2 different teams to the SB)...imo he's the Marty Shottenhiemer of this era, only he could win in the playoffs until the most important game.

That seems like a fair assessment. For the Broncos that is what we needed after our 4-12 season and the whole McDaniels era. At this point though where the Broncos are wanting to compete for the Super Bowl it makes sense to make the change. Throw in the fact that Fox and Elway just were not seeing eye to eye on how to build this team. When you begin having that happen it is just better to move on sooner rather than later.

 

[Broncos6482]

To be honest, doesn't EVERY coach typically show that he's capable of winning a Super Bowl, which is why he gets hired in the first place?

And, by all means, give me one example of a coach that was a certified Super Bowl caliber head coach before they were hired. All coaches who had already won Super Bowls as head coaches don't count.

I never said anything about a certified Super Bowl caliber head coach. But to answer your question, I think that the fact that John Fox took a Jake Delhomme quarterbacked team to within 3 points of the Patriots in the Super Bowl demonstrates to me that he's capable of winning the Super Bowl.

I'd say that Jim Harbaugh has demonstrated he's capable of winning the Super Bowl. Same thing with Andy Reid. I think Tony Dungy did in his time in Tampa. I think Jon Gruden did in his time in Tampa.

 

[Broncos6482]

Fox is a mediocre coach. Proof positive is the fact that he never finished with two winning seasons in a row in Carolina.

Gary Kubiak is a mediocre coach. Proof positive is the fact that he's got a losing record and only made the playoffs twice in 8 seasons.

Isn't cherry picking stats fun?

 

[cdumler7]

Broncos6482 I think there are some major positives and some major question marks with this decision to fire Fox and hire Kubiak.

I do agree this could be considered more of a lateral move than that of an actual improvement. That is my worry that in 5-years we are right where we are or maybe even a bit worse considering we won't have Manning anymore.

My thoughts on Kubiak though are this...

Offensively everywhere he has gone the team has improved. The running game seemed to finish in the top-5 more times than not and a quarterback seemed to have great success under him. I mean Flacco had his best year as a pro under him and he made Schaub of all people into a Pro Bowl level quarterback (big reason I actually have some hope that Osweiler could be decent in this system).

The big issue in my opinion though will be who we hire to coach the defense. When Kubiak has had a competent DC the team has had quite a bit of success. When he has had an average DC though the team struggled to be .500. He just does not do much to help that defense. All of his time has been spent on the offensive side of the ball in the NFL. That is why to me it didn't matter a ton who they hired to coach the offensive side of the ball as I do think they will have great success and most likely with Kubiak we will be a top-10 offense most years. Can we be competent on the defensive side though?

I'm actually a little disappointed we haven't heard more on who they are now going to bring in that Vance Joseph is not available (not sure that is the worst news since he has never been a DC before).

I'm also excited for our Special Teams now that we actually hired somebody that seems pretty competent at the position. His unit at Chicago actually allowed the lowest kick off return per return of any team in the league. I know we don't have a ton of returns against us but it did seem like any time a team did return it they made it out to the 30 or further.

 

[cdumler7]

I will say the one thing that is a major positive or a major negative with that of Kubiak is that of his close relationship with Elway. The two of them have been discussing football for years together so I do think they will have similar thoughts on what it will take to build a Super Bowl caliber team. The issue though that I question is does that mindset actually work out to what it does take to win a Super Bowl? I mean what we are seeing is a ton of old Bronco coaches from the Super Bowl years being brought back. The NFL has changed quite a bit since 1998 so I just worry that they are going to try and rebuild the team they had back then and hope it works in today's NFL. Not sure that is the best thing to do.

 

[Broncos6482]

Not disputing your claim of Shanny calling all the plays, but from what source do you claim that Kubiak had no influence on play calling as the OC? I hope it`s not based on presumptions from unreliable media sources.

I didn't say Kubiak had no influence, but Shanahan was the one calling the plays, at least during the Super Bowl years. Here's an article from 1998 that talks about Shanahan scripting the first 15 plays and mentions several of his play calls.

I'm sure as time went on Kubiak was more and more involved in the offense, but Shanahan was well known for being one of the few coaches who called his own plays.

 

[Broncos6482]

Great posts, cdumler. You said it very well and I agree with you.

 

[cdumler7]

This decision honestly will be a very defining moment in Elway's reputation. Up to this point in Denver it has been "In Elway we trust." So far I would say his time as our VP/GM he has done pretty well (wish the draft would go just a bit better) but any time you fire a coach after he has won you the division 4-years in a row is a major major risk. Now for me I was actually ready for the change. Fox and this Broncos squad seemed to really struggle to win any of the big games. Probably the only time you can say they actually won a big game was our playoff run last year and the miracle game with Tebow.

I just hope Elway has not surrounded himself with a bunch of "yes men." Nothing could be worse for this organization than that. I'm hoping that Elway and Kubiak have the type of relationship where they can be honest with one another and when they disagree it not just be Kubiak back down every time.

 

[randymon]

I will say the one thing that is a major positive or a major negative with that of Kubiak is that of his close relationship with Elway. The two of them have been discussing football for years together so I do think they will have similar thoughts on what it will take to build a Super Bowl caliber team. The issue though that I question is does that mindset actually work out to what it does take to win a Super Bowl? I mean what we are seeing is a ton of old Bronco coaches from the Super Bowl years being brought back. The NFL has changed quite a bit since 1998 so I just worry that they are going to try and rebuild the team they had back then and hope it works in today's NFL. Not sure that is the best thing to do.

Not so sure that is a bad thing CD. Looks like Seattle and NE rely on a stong run game and great D. It`s working for them more than the "new" pass first and often teams with mediocre run game when they face each other. Pesonally, I think the "old" way if you will,"strong run game and great D" is already back.

 

[notorious98]

Idk if mediocre is the word, (he's taken 2 different teams to the SB)...imo he's the Marty Shottenhiemer of this era, only he could win in the playoffs until the most important game.

I would say that Denver went to the Super Bowl in spite of Fox, not because. He's a defensive guy and the defense stunk. The offense carried that team. I'll give you the Panthers.

 

[randymon]

Been watching nfl network,insiders,etc and alot of the coaching hires and most of the opinions if you will from many are very consistant . Their either known for being defense minded or ( the OC`s), committed to/or known for, having a history of at least a dedication toward a strong run game. It`s not completely out of the realm of thought that Kubiak hiring is also dedicated into seeing what they have with Brock. Kubiak is very respected in that area and my guess is even if they do go with Manning next yr ( health of course is an issue) that Oz gets alot more attention this yr. More so than last yr anyway. Times running out on Peyton and the time is oh so near to find what they have or don`t have in Brock.

 

[Broncos6482]

I would say that Denver went to the Super Bowl in spite of Fox, not because. He's a defensive guy and the defense stunk. The offense carried that team. I'll give you the Panthers.

Except that the defense played very well in the playoffs last season. Considering how many injuries the defense had last season, I think the way they played was Fox's best coaching job.

 

[Broncos6482]

Been watching nfl network,insiders,etc and alot of the coaching hires and most of the opinions if you will from many are very consistant . Their either known for being defense minded or ( the OC`s), committed to/or known for, having a history of at least a dedication toward a strong run game. It`s not completely out of the realm of thought that Kubiak hiring is also dedicated into seeing what they have with Brock. Kubiak is very respected in that area and my guess is even if they do go with Manning next yr ( health of course is an issue) that Oz gets alot more attention this yr. More so than last yr anyway. Times running out on Peyton and the time is oh so near to find what they have or don`t have in Brock.

That's a really good point. Frankly I think the hiring of Kubiak was more for after Manning than during Manning. Which makes sense, because we're probably looking at 2 years max with Manning. Definitely need to be thinking long term.

 

[cdumler7]

Was reading earlier actually on the whole if Manning comes back this year thing. They were suggesting that if Manning does come back then the Broncos need to look to trade Osweiler. With his contract running out after this season there is a good chance the Broncos will have to use a draft pick on a quarterback to ensure that we still have a viable option next year say Osweiler decides to go elsewhere and we are left with nothing. I think it makes sense. I would love to see what Osweiler could do with Kubiak as I think they are a great match but at this point might be time to see if we can get any kind of value out of him.