Bron Bron and Cavs wrap up the 2 seed

[WiggyRuss]

LBJ hits a dagger to finish up the win and claim the 2 seed.......this despite being at one point 19-20....this despite all the haters dancing on Blatts grave in December......this despite DJ claiming the Wizards were a better team! LOL......

when you go 32-8 once you get the team healthy and finished putting it together- you can see why Vegas has the Cavs as the favorites to get out of the east.

Here is to the Cavs recapturing the division title after a 4 year hiatus and once again establishing themselves as one of the truly elite teams in the league. It was a dark 4 years at times- only lightened by talented prospects like Kyrie and TT etc. and a front office and owner who gathered picks, took on other teams bad money in order to get assets, and took a team that was nearly bereft of talent and draft picks- to putting themselves in position to have one of the biggest offseasons in the history of sports.

While the Cavs have a lot bigger fish to fry- you have to enjoy these moments, especially when there has been very little to cheer about lately!

Lets hope thety use these last couple weeks or whatever of the regular season toget rested, totally healthy, have some good practices, and start the playoffs in the best possible shape!

hats off to Bron, Kyrie, Love, - the new guys Shump, Smith, Mozzy, - the vets Jones, Miller, Marion, Perkins who have shown guys the right way to play- to Tristan Thompson in being a rock and developing into one of the best re bounders in the NBA.....to David Griffin for pulling the right moves at the right times and maximizing Dion Waiters value in a way i never thought possible- and for dan Gilbert- who will never shy away from a deal because of money- and for putting his ego aside and doing what was best for the city and the franchise- and paying for the cavs having the biggest increase in payroll from one season tothe next in the history of the league- and it was not even close-

On to the next step!

 

[bksballer89]

After this thread we're in agreement that this year is championship or bust for Cleveland right?

Nobody is dumb enough to make a thread like this unless they expect to win the title and nothing less

 

[WiggyRuss]

After this thread we're in agreement that this year is championship or bust for Cleveland right?

Nobody is dumb enough to make a thread like this unless they expect to win the title and nothing less

As i said- whatever other people want to say is fine with me

me personally? I have seen my home-town team make a Fianls/World Series/ Super Bowl exactly 3 times in my life- and never have seen a team win it all- the indians in 95 and 97, and the Cavs in 07

So when you ask ME- who has not seen a Cleveland team make the playoffs since the Cavs left unless you want to count the indians one game wild card matchup?

Ill be ECSTATIC if the Cavs make the Finals even if they end up losing a good series- ESPECIALLY because this Cavs party has just started- guests are still arriving- no one is leaving this party until they can see daylight....

So- take that for what you will.....

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

LBJ hits a dagger to finish up the win and claim the 2 seed.......this despite being at one point 19-20....this despite all the haters dancing on Blatts grave in December......this despite DJ claiming the Wizards were a better team! LOL......

when you go 32-8 once you get the team healthy and finished putting it together- you can see why Vegas has the Cavs as the favorites to get out of the east.

Here is to the Cavs recapturing the division title after a 4 year hiatus and once again establishing themselves as one of the truly elite teams in the league. It was a dark 4 years at times- only lightened by talented prospects like Kyrie and TT etc. and a front office and owner who gathered picks, took on other teams bad money in order to get assets, and took a team that was nearly bereft of talent and draft picks- to putting themselves in position to have one of the biggest offseasons in the history of sports.

While the Cavs have a lot bigger fish to fry- you have to enjoy these moments, especially when there has been very little to cheer about lately!

Lets hope thety use these last couple weeks or whatever of the regular season toget rested, totally healthy, have some good practices, and start the playoffs in the best possible shape!

hats off to Bron, Kyrie, Love, - the new guys Shump, Smith, Mozzy, - the vets Jones, Miller, Marion, Perkins who have shown guys the right way to play- to Tristan Thompson in being a rock and developing into one of the best re bounders in the NBA.....to David Griffin for pulling the right moves at the right times and maximizing Dion Waiters value in a way i never thought possible- and for dan Gilbert- who will never shy away from a deal because of money- and for putting his ego aside and doing what was best for the city and the franchise- and paying for the cavs having the biggest increase in payroll from one season tothe next in the history of the league- and it was not even close-

On to the next step!

Isn't the next step you honoring your losing avi bet?
Did you read my reply on the other thread?



Now, about your post.

I'll condense it for you.

"We will always suck except when James is on our team".

 

[WiggyRuss]

Isn't the next step you honoring your losing avi bet?
Did you read my reply on the other thread?

let me check---- i hate my life on wednesdays- i work from 8 till 2 and then have class from 4 till 730....and have been watching the Cavs and Tribe!!!

let me take a look

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

As far as your extended party, that's just words for an excuse if needed.

You really think as the years pass at this point that James will improve?

Wouldn't you agree he peaked here?

There's a lot of great young players in this league, and there soon will be a new CBA.

Your best chance is probably right now.

 

[WiggyRuss]

As far as your extended party, that's just words for an excuse if needed.

You really think as the years pass at this point that James will improve?

Wouldn't you agree he peaked here?

There's a lot of great young players in this league, and there soon will be a new CBA.

Your best chance is probably right now.

I dont think so at all- I think that LeBron will still be LeBron for AT LEAST 2 more and probably 3 more seasons after this- and Kyrie just turned 23 and Love is only 27- Blatt was a first year coach that has taken time to adapt- they did not even have their real team till half way through the season....they have not even figured out how to play Love ideally in a lot of situations and him and LeBron are getting better but are not on the same page. LeBron has a ton of turnovers because he just does not know what to expect a lot....if yo give this team another year or two together and every guy knows where every guy will be on the floor that helps a TON -especially defensively.....Right now they run a lot of ISO- and thats fine when yo uhave 2 of the top 6-7 ISO guys in the entire league- but they can institute some really creative stuff once they have something to build off of----plus- they have assets this offseason in Haywoods contract- and their own first rounder- which will probably be used to draft a backup point guard- which can definitely be found late in the 1st round and would definitely help.

This team has assets, flexibility, a mostly very young roster- as long as Love comes back I believe that years 2 and 3 will be their prime years to win a title.....and right now I tend to believe Love will be back- i find it hard to beleive a guy turns down both the most money and best chance of winning- i cant remember a situation EVER where a player turned down money to g to a situation where hischance of winning was less---- but there is a first for everything---- and I do have some concerns about Love's back both short term and long term....hes not exactly the most athletic guy in the world as is....if his back starts to go that could bebad news....especially because i think at times he has played some pretty darn good defense when he hasgotten rest and been healthy...

The one hthing i really respect about LeBron is his ability to add something to his game and adjust- he is so good at it- whether its learning a post game, developing a very solid 3 pt shot, developing his mid range game earlier in his career, I think his game should hold up very well- especially considering he has younger guys like Love and Kyrie who can carry the load at times for him.......

i do kinda feel regret in that we will never get to see what a tea with a 28 year old Kyrie at the top his game (and maybne the league), a 25 year old Wiggins and a 35 year old Bron woud look like.......I think that would be really interesting to see him in a way take a step back- but still bea top 10-15 guy probably- but have guys like Kyrie and Wiggins around him....ILL BE REALLY PIST we will miss that if the Cavs dont win a couple titles the next 5 years.....

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I dont think so at all- I think that LeBron will still be LeBron for AT LEAST 2 more and probably 3 more seasons after this- and Kyrie just turned 23 and Love is only 27- Blatt was a first year coach that has taken time to adapt- they did not even have their real team till half way through the season....they have not even figured out how to play Love ideally in a lot of situations and him and LeBron are getting better but are not on the same page. LeBron has a ton of turnovers because he just does not know what to expect a lot....if yo give this team another year or two together and every guy knows where every guy will be on the floor that helps a TON -especially defensively.....Right now they run a lot of ISO- and thats fine when yo uhave 2 of the top 6-7 ISO guys in the entire league- but they can institute some really creative stuff once they have something to build off of----plus- they have assets this offseason in Haywoods contract- and their own first rounder- which will probably be used to draft a backup point guard- which can definitely be found late in the 1st round and would definitely help.

This team has assets, flexibility, a mostly very young roster- as long as Love comes back I believe that years 2 and 3 will be their prime years to win a title.....and right now I tend to believe Love will be back- i find it hard to beleive a guy turns down both the most money and best chance of winning- i cant remember a situation EVER where a player turned down money to g to a situation where hischance of winning was less---- but there is a first for everything---- and I do have some concerns about Love's back both short term and long term....hes not exactly the most athletic guy in the world as is....if his back starts to go that could bebad news....especially because i think at times he has played some pretty darn good defense when he hasgotten rest and been healthy...

The one hthing i really respect about LeBron is his ability to add something to his game and adjust- he is so good at it- whether its learning a post game, developing a very solid 3 pt shot, developing his mid range game earlier in his career, I think his game should hold up very well- especially considering he has younger guys like Love and Kyrie who can carry the load at times for him.......

i do kinda feel regret in that we will never get to see what a tea with a 28 year old Kyrie at the top his game (and maybne the league), a 25 year old Wiggins and a 35 year old Bron woud look like.......I think that would be really interesting to see him in a way take a step back- but still bea top 10-15 guy probably- but have guys like Kyrie and Wiggins around him....ILL BE REALLY PIST we will miss that if the Cavs dont win a couple titles the next 5 years.....

I get what you are saying.

To me though, you are looking at the best possible case scenario .

I tend to try to view things from somewhere in the middle.

As a Heat fan, I have lived the 4 years you are hoping to see.

I can tell you with certainty that as the games and seasons go by, you will see a trend towards regular season boredom set it.
I swear to you, it was hard to enjoy/ watch a lot of regular season Heat Big 3 season 3 and the majority of season 4.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I get what you are saying.

To me though, you are looking at the best possible case scenario .

I tend to try to view things from somewhere in the middle.

As a Heat fan, I have lived the 4 years you are hoping to see.

I can tell you with certainty that as the games and seasons go by, you will see a trend towards regular season boredom set it.
I swear to you, it was hard to enjoy/ watch a lot of regular season Heat Big 3 season 3 and the majority of season 4.

well- an i am really trying to walk a fine line here and not be a dick- but LeBron looked joyless in that 4th season.....like i have been saying- he was in the process of being the teams leading rebounder for 3 years in a row, Wade sat 30 games- Bosh was good at spacing the floor and playing team D- but he was not getting LeBrons back and doing any dirty work....I watched a lot of those games and i did not see LeBron do one of his patended "chase down" blocks even once.....he needed a breath of fresh air more than anything.....If that year Wade only missed 10 games- and Whiteside arrived a year early and gave LeBron a real center for the first time since Zydrunas? maybe its a different story

once the Cavs traded for the real center- and Kyrie and LeBron got on the same page the game just looked fun to LeBron again- he is doing the chase downs again- he is back to playing more on the perimeter and using his passing skills than banging down low in the post (where he is effective- and i want him to go in the postin the playoffs- but i dont want him getting banged up in the post in the regular season)--- the Cavs have BY FAR the most alley oops in the league- and since Mozgov has gotten here he has I think DOUBLE what the next closest guy has.......

LeBron looked like he was grinding it out in Miami that last yearand just did not play with his normal joyfullness he has redisovered here- I mean- dont you agree with me in that? i dont say that to be a dick- i really dont- i just think its theobvious truth.....maybe its different if Wade only missed 10 games and Whiteside got their a year early and keeps his head on straight....

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

well- an i am really trying to walk a fine line here and not be a dick- but LeBron looked joyless in that 4th season.....like i have been saying- he was in the process of being the teams leading rebounder for 3 years in a row, Wade sat 30 games- Bosh was good at spacing the floor and playing team D- but he was not getting LeBrons back and doing any dirty work....I watched a lot of those games and i did not see LeBron do one of his patended "chase down" blocks even once.....he needed a breath of fresh air more than anything.....If that year Wade only missed 10 games- and Whiteside arrived a year early and gave LeBron a real center for the first time since Zydrunas? maybe its a different story

once the Cavs traded for the real center- and Kyrie and LeBron got on the same page the game just looked fun to LeBron again- he is doing the chase downs again- he is back to playing more on the perimeter and using his passing skills than banging down low in the post (where he is effective- and i want him to go in the postin the playoffs- but i dont want him getting banged up in the post in the regular season)--- the Cavs have BY FAR the most alley oops in the league- and since Mozgov has gotten here he has I think DOUBLE what the next closest guy has.......

LeBron looked like he was grinding it out in Miami that last yearand just did not play with his normal joyfullness he has redisovered here- I mean- dont you agree with me in that? i dont say that to be a dick- i really dont- i just think its theobvious truth.....maybe its different if Wade only missed 10 games and Whiteside got their a year early and keeps his head on straight....

I think the change was good, necessary, and in a way rejuvenated all 3 of them.

The biggest difference in the results is that James is just a far better player.

That being said, I feel he greatly reduced the chances for Wade/Bosh "his brothers" to succeed this year, because he jacked Riley around. We all know that our FA is handled totally different if he wouldn't have needed to see his name on the bottom of the ESPN scroll for 10 days.

What I'm telling you is, that as the games and seasons pass, win or lose, it will start to stale there.

It's like buying an oceanfront home.
At first, all you see is the view.
After a while, all you see is the saltwater on the glass.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

Hell yeah, listened to the end on the radio. Step back 3 for the ice!

 

[Sgt Brutus]

After this thread we're in agreement that this year is championship or bust for Cleveland right?

Nobody is dumb enough to make a thread like this unless they expect to win the title and nothing less

I think next year is the one we really need to win or bust. First year with the guys getting the chemistry up and stuff is important and I wouldn't say I expect a championship although we have a good shot and we should win the Eastern Conference.

 

[trojanfan12]

I can tell you with certainty that as the games and seasons go by, you will see a trend towards regular season boredom set it.
I swear to you, it was hard to enjoy/ watch a lot of regular season Heat Big 3 season 3 and the majority of season 4.

Used to drive me nucking futs when the Lakers would do that shit. They were especially bad about it towards the end of Shaq/Kobe. I hated all of the "they'll flip the switch" talk. Sometimes, when you "flip the switch," the light doesn't come on. Or you face a team like the Spurs (or Pistons for the Lakers) that breaks the damn bulb.

 

[bksballer89]

I think next year is the one we really need to win or bust. First year with the guys getting the chemistry up and stuff is important and I wouldn't say I expect a championship although we have a good shot and we should win the Eastern Conference.

Well with the way wiggy talk about the cavs, no way should be happy unless they win the title. You're a different story though

 

[trojanfan12]

I think next year is the one we really need to win or bust. First year with the guys getting the chemistry up and stuff is important and I wouldn't say I expect a championship although we have a good shot and we should win the Eastern Conference.

I get it to a degree. However, as turnup points out, Lebron is not going to get better and we have seen the results when he's out and they aren't great. Plus, with the cap expected to increase, it's going to be harder to get guys to come to/stay in Cleveland as Lebron's skills decline.

In short, this year (and maybe next year) are going to be the Cavs best shots at a title, imo and that's why Lebron insisted on the wholesale roster changes, even after that letter talking about how patient he was going to be.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Ill guarantee everyone that reads posts on this site and has watched a basketball game.

At some point in this playoffs- the Cavs will be struggling in a game, Mike Miller will get some run, and he will have a major impact and after the game the TNT or ESPN crew will talk about how Mike Miller was key, and won the game, and continues to show why he deserves a spot on a title contender.

Windhorst has said this for months now- that he will NEVER count Mike Miller out- because he has done it before only to have a big pile of crow plopped in front of him after Miller pulls a clutch performance out of his ass.

It will happen this playoffs. I PROMISE you that. -and I would not be surprised if the same happened with James Jones at some point as well.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Personally I don't see LeBron ever winning another championship in Cleveland. I also agree that he has peaked and has already started to decline as a player. The decline is so small that one might not notice it, but he had some issues with various parts of his body which is something that never happened before.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I get it to a degree. However, as turnup points out, Lebron is not going to get better and we have seen the results when he's out and they aren't great. Plus, with the cap expected to increase, it's going to be harder to get guys to come to/stay in Cleveland as Lebron's skills decline.

In short, this year (and maybe next year) are going to be the Cavs best shots at a title, imo and that's why Lebron insisted on the wholesale roster changes, even after that letter talking about how patient he was going to be.

The only way I can buy the argument that the Cavs wont have a better shot for the next 2-3 years AFTER this year is if Love leaves. If Love leaves that definitelyhurts their chance going forward- if thats why you think they have to win it now- since he is out the door- then I understand that logic-

personallyI think he stays- and signs his max deal- because the Cavs can give him BOTH the most money and best chance towin- and personally- i have nver seen a player turn down a player in that situation- there of course is ALWAYS a first time for everything- I will in no way shape or form say that I GUARANTEE Love i staying- but like i said- it goes against everything i have ever seen in the league for a guy to turn down both the best chance to win AND the most money.

Next? Why will the Cavs be better the next 2-3 years?

-As I said above- Continuity- its a HUGE thing in basketball- the Spurs can do things and institute plays and looks that no one else can since they have been together forever and know exactly where everyone will be on every play- Getting Love and LeBron another season together would be HUGE- everyone has seen that they arent completely comfortable together yet-another year? You could see MAJOR improvement there. A full year of Mozgov, Smith, Shumpert will help big time.

-The Brendan Haywood Contract- its a huge trade asset and allows them, a team over teh cap- to add a player they otherwise never could have- Heck- they could combine Haywoods deal with say Varejao, or Smith or Shumpert- (or just alone) and get someone like Hibbert or Joe Johnson, or Avery Bradley, David Lee, Andrew Bogut, JJ redick, OR take on a Kings bad contract along with McLemore or Stauskas, Tyreke Evans, Eric Gordon, Nikola Pekovic, Batum, Stephenson, Iguadala- BASICALLY- some team will want to make cap room and get rid of a high paid vet they no longer want or cant afford- and the Cavs will take that player- either straight up if the player is good, or take the players contract along with another asset attached......I like Jr Smith- but i would LOVE to see Joe Johnson as the SG for the next 2-3 years and have him be the 4thoption behin the big 3- or trade for Igaudala since the Warrirors cant afford to keep everyoen and resign Green----or take Stephenson off the Bobcats hands and get MKG to do so (heck id throw in a 1st rounder or two to get that one done)----my point? The Cavs will get a SIGNIFICANT addition with the Haywood contract

-Improvement from the young guys- Thompson and Irving have taken big steps this season- and they will only continue to get better- neither one is close to their peak prime years yet. Other young guys like Joe Harris, Delly, could go from being end of the rotation guys to guys who become useful rotation players- especially considering all the vets who have taught these guys- AND the fact they all will get playoff experience for the first time!

-Mid Level and Veteran exceptions- when you have LeBron and this kind ofchanceto win a title- you attract solid players at discount prices- Jamal Crawford, Luol Deng, David West, Patrick Beverely, Wilson Chandler, Paul Pierce, Brandon Bass, Mo Williams, Ed Davis, Boozer, amare, Lin, Barnes, Dunleavy, Jameer nelson- are ALL examples of guys that could accept a mid level exception deal that pays about 6.5 million a year, or a veteran exception of i believe like 2.5M a year to play on a team taht can win a title....How amazing would it be to add Beverely at 6 million a year to be the 3rd guard who plays GREAT D, and then Boozer at 2.5 M to come off the bench--- or conversely- give David West 6.5 M a year and Jeremy Lin 2.5 a year -.

-Blatt- either Blatt will have done well enough to keep his job and have gotten great experience and know the league and opposing playersa lot better- or they will bring in a new coach- -The #1 guy who i think has a strong chance of being the coach is Calipari,- but Blatt has a chance to stay and continue to grow, or possibly Thibs- or lower on the list a guy like Mark Jackson- regardless- if they keep their same coach, or get a new one- the level of coaching will improve from this year.

-the cap is going up- and that will HELP the Cavs- ---Kyrie irving is going to be a STEAL under the new bigger cap at about 15/16 million a year for the next 5 years. His deal makes it possible for the Cavs, EVEN IF LOVE LEAVES, to add in a 3rd star via free agency, or if Love STAYS- they should still have flexibility even with all three of those guys.

-Varejao is back. Varejao is a great defensive player- while he does not block shots he is AMAZING at taking charges, and he is one of the very best big men inthe NBA in showing on the high pick and roll and blocking that action (which is basically very team in the leagues bread and butter play)- he has great chemistry with Bron and Irving, has developed his offensive game- and BY FAR the best partof his game is that he is an amazing rebounder. He is not an all star- but he is a damn good player and missing him has really hurt- especially pre-Mozgov.


a lot of this is up in the air. Who knows how it goes- Shumpert is a retricted free agent, Thompson is a restricted free agent, JR smith has a player option and he is playing EXTREMELY well and might opt out and trick some team into giving him a lot of money, Love is UNRESTRICTED, .....they have so many possible moving parts- including that they own their pick.....they could make tons ofmovesor just bring guys back- Maybe Jr Smtih gets traded ? maybe he stays and Shumpert gets dealt with the guy they end up drafting and Haywood for Joe Johnson or something like that....who knows....

but my pointis- between the greater continuity, their trade assets, their young players improving, the coaching improvement, Varejao getting healthy, - the Cavs party has just begun and should continue for the what I believe will be the next 5 years-

As long as Kyrie and Bron are together- and Gilbert will spend whatever it takes- this team will be atitle contender no matter what- no matter if Love leaves, Varejao tears both achilees, Shumpert gets signed to an outragous deal the Cavs wont match, Jr sMith fools a team to pay him big money again, Tristan Thompson leaves for 16 million a year (lol)....

as long as Kyrie, Bron and Gilbert are here- this team has a very good chance to win a title for the next 5 years. PERIOD.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Personally I don't see LeBron ever winning another championship in Cleveland. I also agree that he has peaked and has already started to decline as a player. The decline is so small that one might not notice it, but he had some issues with various parts of his body which is something that never happened before.

If you were starting from scratch- and were picking one guy to start your team to win a title- LeBron IS DEFINITELy still that guy this year- and he will probably still be that guy for AT LEAST the next 2-3 years after this one and he is not slipping out of the top 5 for the next 5 years. - and very well might be the #1 guy for the next 5 years. Shit jordan was until post age 35

He turned 30 in December- he is a freak of nature, and the Cavs have gone out of their way to limit the guys minutes, and gave him those 2 weeks off to nurse his nagging injuries, and will likely give him a few more games off to get healthy. He has never played less games orminutes- and that will be the plan going forward in order to keep him at his best for as long as they can.

And please- if i am starting a team on October 30th to win the title in June, its not even a close debate- LeBron is your guy- not only because of his otherwordly talent- because guys like Durant and Davis have oodles of talent oozing from every pore- but because he has done it before and knows what it takes. I love Curry- but he hasnt- and i will ALWAYS pick the 6 foot 8 275 FREAK athlete who can effect teh game in anyway- over the guard who struggles on defense and has had major injury concerns for much of his career- (dont get me wrong i love Curry but we are discussing the #1 player and you pick at every single defect at that point)...

Plese- someone try and make the case for anyone besides LeBron.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

If you were starting from scratch- and were picking one guy to start your team to win a title- LeBron IS DEFINITELy still that guy this year- and he will probably still be that guy for AT LEAST the next 2-3 years after this one and he is not slipping out of the top 5 for the next 5 years. - and very well might be the #1 guy for the next 5 years. Shit jordan was until post age 35

He turned 30 in December- he is a freak of nature, and the Cavs have gone out of their way to limit the guys minutes, and gave him those 2 weeks off to nurse his nagging injuries, and will likely give him a few more games off to get healthy. He has never played less games orminutes- and that will be the plan going forward in order to keep him at his best for as long as they can.

And please- if i am starting a team on October 30th to win the title in June, its not even a close debate- LeBron is your guy- not only because of his otherwordly talent- because guys like Durant and Davis have oodles of talent oozing from every pore- but because he has done it before and knows what it takes. I love Curry- but he hasnt- and i will ALWAYS pick the 6 foot 8 275 FREAK athlete who can effect teh game in anyway- over the guard who struggles on defense and has had major injury concerns for much of his career- (dont get me wrong i love Curry but we are discussing the #1 player and you pick at every single defect at that point)...

Plese- someone try and make the case for anyone besides LeBron.

LOL - Lebron is not even close to being a Michael Jordan. Not even Kobe in his prime was that great and Kobe has been one hell of a closer over LeBron, but nice try and yes - LeBron has slipped just a bit. In past years for Lebron to miss games over injuries was unheard of. He still has 2 to 5 years more at the top, but he has peaked as you will see.