Brandon Boykin is the real deal

[Superbelt]

Picking up Boykin is only going to increase the fire under his ass, too. He's taking it personally.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Definitely. He sounded upset with his "I don't know why they traded for him, you'll have to ask coach and let me know" comment. But judging by his proceeding comments, he has the right mentality about it. I wouldn't be surprised if we started hearing about some skirmishes from the CB group

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Blake wants to start, too.
He's shown more than Cortez.

Boykin and Blake starting, Gay as nickel, Cortez 4th CB.

You are right off LY, but so far in camp Allen is looking much better I'm hearing...I need one guy with a bit of size.

Basically...this deal was done because Golson might go on IR and maybe they were thinking he might get some snaps.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Trying to make sense of why Boykin isn't playing... I posted this in a convo with ATL today..

Boykin... The trade clause states that if he plays more than 60% of our defensive snaps then the 5th round pick is upgraded to a 4th rounder. That could be playing a factor right now. But they could play him every snap from now til the end of the season and it would only barely reach the 60% threshold for that 4th rounder. I am more interested in the fact that I think there is also a clause that protects us in the trade too. Is there a clause that gives 6th instead of 5th if he plays less than 40%?? Other than that, I'm not sure why else he's not seeing the field? Maybe he brought a "Philly attitude" with him to Pittsburgh and he's been rubbing the coaches the wrong way?

Anyone hear or know of anything?

 

[SteelersPride]

he is pootinky

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Cortez was just placed on IR... That will likely force Boykin onto the field. They only have 4 rostered CBs now. I wonder if they will sign another CB when the team gets back to full health at other positions.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Steelers CB Brandon Boykin ready to prove he was worth the trade from Philadelphia

Basically stating the obvious with this... But the biggest takeaway IMO is that Boykin is keeping his head on his shoulders. We know he has to frustrated, but the way he carries himself is a great sign. Good things come to those that are patient. We fans can kick & scream all season long about wanting Boykin out there, but it's not going to get him out there any quicker. Blake earned his right to be out there, regardless of his recent play. As much as I like Blake for his grit, the kid ain’t getting it done. Boykin needs to be given a chance. Hopefully he gets that chance this week.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Steelers DB coach Carnell Lake sheds light on why CB Brandon Boykin isn't playing

I'm not buyin this. "We're doing ok" doesn't scream confidence in his group. Its easy to see that the secondary is bleeding yards all game long, so clearly someone is not doing a very good job. A finger could be pointed at either side RCB or LCB, doesn't matter. The fact that they are still refusing to let Boykin sniff the field is ridiculous. There is no way that Boykin is any worse than Blake or Cockrell. Both Blake & Cockrell have made great plays here and there, but there's still something to be said about how much yardage they are giving up. PIT is 27th in passing yards per game, 30th in passing yards allowed, & 28th in completion percentage. If those numbers are "ok" by lake, then I think we need to take the kid gloves off when talking about Lake's coaching. I say kid gloves because Lake is a HOFer so we are all too quick to excuse him of any fault because of that.

I'd be interested to see what those numbers would look like when compared to prior secondary coaches. Ray Horton was the secondary coach from 2004-2010. I guarantee those numbers are leaps and bounds better. I know there are many different factors that equate into this discussion, but how else are we to judge a coach?

I hate to start questioning Lake, but his response to why Boykin isn't playing is a little ludicrous.

 

[Psych-Ward]

Steelers DB coach Carnell Lake sheds light on why CB Brandon Boykin isn't playing

I'm not buyin this. "We're doing ok" doesn't scream confidence in his group. Its easy to see that the secondary is bleeding yards all game long, so clearly someone is not doing a very good job. A finger could be pointed at either side RCB or LCB, doesn't matter. The fact that they are still refusing to let Boykin sniff the field is ridiculous. There is no way that Boykin is any worse than Blake or Cockrell. Both Blake & Cockrell have made great plays here and there, but there's still something to be said about how much yardage they are giving up. PIT is 27th in passing yards per game, 30th in passing yards allowed, & 28th in completion percentage. If those numbers are "ok" by lake, then I think we need to take the kid gloves off when talking about Lake's coaching. I say kid gloves because Lake is a HOFer so we are all too quick to excuse him of any fault because of that.

I'd be interested to see what those numbers would look like when compared to prior secondary coaches. Ray Horton was the secondary coach from 2004-2010. I guarantee those numbers are leaps and bounds better. I know there are many different factors that equate into this discussion, but how else are we to judge a coach?

I hate to start questioning Lake, but his response to why Boykin isn't playing is a little ludicrous.

I agree with you Face....
I think they are holding him down because they dont want to give up a 4th round pick for him, and you know if he ends up on the field and makes a few picks the NFL will say, yep, fuck it, you're giving up that 4th rounder....after all you know how much Goodsmell and the NFL like us!!!

But to say he just isn't good enough is bullshit, but I am sure they can't come right out and say, we are not giving up a 4th round pick.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I agree with you Face....
I think they are holding him down because they dont want to give up a 4th round pick for him, and you know if he ends up on the field and makes a few picks the NFL will say, yep, fuck it, you're giving up that 4th rounder....after all you know how much Goodsmell and the NFL like us!!!

But to say he just isn't good enough is bullshit, but I am sure they can't come right out and say, we are not giving up a 4th round pick.

Well if the deal of the trade holds true then I don't think the NFL can overrule any part of it. And at this point it is mathematically impossible for PIT to give up a 4th rounder for the trade because even if Boykin started & played every single snap for the remainder of the season it still wouldn't equate to the 60% total that he would need to surpass in order for the pick to be upgraded to a 4th rounder.

Just doesn't make any sense!!!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Steelers DB coach Carnell Lake sheds light on why CB Brandon Boykin isn't playing

I'm not buyin this. "We're doing ok" doesn't scream confidence in his group. Its easy to see that the secondary is bleeding yards all game long, so clearly someone is not doing a very good job. A finger could be pointed at either side RCB or LCB, doesn't matter. The fact that they are still refusing to let Boykin sniff the field is ridiculous. There is no way that Boykin is any worse than Blake or Cockrell. Both Blake & Cockrell have made great plays here and there, but there's still something to be said about how much yardage they are giving up. PIT is 27th in passing yards per game, 30th in passing yards allowed, & 28th in completion percentage. If those numbers are "ok" by lake, then I think we need to take the kid gloves off when talking about Lake's coaching. I say kid gloves because Lake is a HOFer so we are all too quick to excuse him of any fault because of that.

I'd be interested to see what those numbers would look like when compared to prior secondary coaches. Ray Horton was the secondary coach from 2004-2010. I guarantee those numbers are leaps and bounds better. I know there are many different factors that equate into this discussion, but how else are we to judge a coach?

I hate to start questioning Lake, but his response to why Boykin isn't playing is a little ludicrous.

I got into a spirited debate with a poster on another board...he's blasting this trade because Colbert should have known he wanted to play outside, blah, blah, blah.

There's no way to sugarcoat it...this deal has backfired to this point.

Going backwards a bit here...PIT was going into offseason with a C. Allen, and Gay as the outside guys, Blake was the 3rd CB...Supposedly, Tomlin liked Boykin as a slot (he didn't have any outside tape to look at, so his value to the Steelers had to be as a slot CB) and they were interesting in a deal back in April...apparently whatever PHI wanted was not to their liking...they drafted Golson who many felt was going to get snaps as a slot CB...when he was lost for the year, they revisited Boykin and pulled the trigger.

Why he's not playing? They don't think he can play outside.

In the minds of the staff, clearly Cockrell brings outside size and skills, but...b/c Tomlin likes vets or guys that have been in the system Blake is really the CB2 so when they go to nickle with Cockrell, Gay moves to the slot. So they don't think Boykin is an upgrade over Gay in the slot, which he's probably not, and they don't view him as a better option outside than Blake.

As a fan...okay, I can get my head around that a little bit. But, when it's pretty clear that Blake is the #1 target for most OCs and he has a bad hand to boot...why not play Cockrell and Gay outside and give Boykin some snaps in nickel.

Granted, they played Manziel with a soft zone a lot of the time and tried to keep the play in front, so you're going to give up some yards, but absent of that game...the CB play has not been good enough overall to say, "we're okay"....is that the new standard?

Now that a 4th is out of play, maybe we'll see more of him.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I got into a spirited debate with a poster on another board...he's blasting this trade because Colbert should have known he wanted to play outside, blah, blah, blah.

There's no way to sugarcoat it...this deal has backfired to this point.

Going backwards a bit here...PIT was going into offseason with a C. Allen, and Gay as the outside guys, Blake was the 3rd CB...Supposedly, Tomlin liked Boykin as a slot (he didn't have any outside tape to look at, so his value to the Steelers had to be as a slot CB) and they were interesting in a deal back in April...apparently whatever PHI wanted was not to their liking...they drafted Golson who many felt was going to get snaps as a slot CB...when he was lost for the year, they revisited Boykin and pulled the trigger.

Why he's not playing? They don't think he can play outside.

In the minds of the staff, clearly Cockrell brings outside size and skills, but...b/c Tomlin likes vets or guys that have been in the system Blake is really the CB2 so when they go to nickle with Cockrell, Gay moves to the slot. So they don't think Boykin is an upgrade over Gay in the slot, which he's probably not, and they don't view him as a better option outside than Blake.

As a fan...okay, I can get my head around that a little bit. But, when it's pretty clear that Blake is the #1 target for most OCs and he has a bad hand to boot...why not play Cockrell and Gay outside and give Boykin some snaps in nickel.

Granted, they played Manziel with a soft zone a lot of the time and tried to keep the play in front, so you're going to give up some yards, but absent of that game...the CB play has not been good enough overall to say, "we're okay"....is that the new standard?

Now that a 4th is out of play, maybe we'll see more of him.

Good points ATL!

I'm still sort of curious if there is a clause in the trade that stipulates that the pick decreases to a 6th instead of 5th if he plays less than 40%? Might explain a lot lol.

But if not, it's still baffling how they won't at least give the man some table scraps or spoon feed him snaps until they can really gauge what they have. Boykin wants to play outside and he has the confidence to do so. If they planned on him playing outside they should at least give him a shot to prove himself.

One point that was argued on another board was that he's not a great tackler. Good cover guy, but tackling skills are lacking. That's big problem for a secondary that "keeps the play in front of them" because you have to be a sure-tackler in this scheme. Still I don't see how he could be any worse than what they have out there. He may not bring the tenacity that Blake does, but he can probably be depended on to make tackles. And if that means better coverage and less yards given up, then what am I missing here? lol

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Good points ATL!

I'm still sort of curious if there is a clause in the trade that stipulates that the pick decreases to a 6th instead of 5th if he plays less than 40%? Might explain a lot lol.

But if not, it's still baffling how they won't at least give the man some table scraps or spoon feed him snaps until they can really gauge what they have. Boykin wants to play outside and he has the confidence to do so. If they planned on him playing outside they should at least give him a shot to prove himself.

One point that was argued on another board was that he's not a great tackler. Good cover guy, but tackling skills are lacking. That's big problem for a secondary that "keeps the play in front of them" because you have to be a sure-tackler in this scheme. Still I don't see how he could be any worse than what they have out there. He may not bring the tenacity that Blake does, but he can probably be depended on to make tackles. And if that means better coverage and less yards given up, then what am I missing here? lol

I think whatever they did see of him camp was stamped...Slot.

On the other hand...it doesn't explain why they don't keep Gay outside and give Boykin more shots in the slot....that one is baffling, because Blake is the weak link in spite of his pick 6.

I'm hoping CB and S are addressed in the draft...no one seems to know what Grant will morph into...is he an outside guy, is he a slot, is he a S?

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I think whatever they did see of him camp was stamped...Slot.

On the other hand...it doesn't explain why they don't keep Gay outside and give Boykin more shots in the slot....that one is baffling, because Blake is the weak link in spite of his pick 6.

I'm hoping CB and S are addressed in the draft...no one seems to know what Grant will morph into...is he an outside guy, is he a slot, is he a S?

Yea there are a lot of questions in the secondary unfortunately. Thankfully at least Mitchell is turning out to be a solid acquisition. He's lookin to get paid with his backloaded contract! Still, with how old Will Allen is and the flop of Shamarko, the safety position has to be pretty damn high on the draft list regardless of plans for Grant. However I did really like what I saw from Golden, so maybe that will open up the 1st pick for other positions. They will have talent at the CB position if they can resign some of these guys. They have good talent, just nothing great yet. IMO they are one semi-shutdown CB away from being a nasty D.

Offseason... Cockrell looks to me like a no brainer. Blake/Boykin is obviously a tough one. One will be gone next year. I think this is Gay's last year under contract. So technically we only have Cortez (for the moment lol), Grant & Golson under contract for next season. Will be interesting to see how that all pans out leading up to the draft.

Grant & Golson... Hard to know what they have just yet. I like how they are giving Grant the opportunity to make some impact on ST. Should be good for him. Golson will have a lot of eyes on him this offseason. A high end draft pick that we have yet to see anything from is plenty of fuel for curiosity.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Yea there are a lot of questions in the secondary unfortunately. Thankfully at least Mitchell is turning out to be a solid acquisition. He's lookin to get paid with his backloaded contract! Still, with how old Will Allen is and the flop of Shamarko, the safety position has to be pretty damn high on the draft list regardless of plans for Grant. However I did really like what I saw from Golden, so maybe that will open up the 1st pick for other positions. They will have talent at the CB position if they can resign some of these guys. They have good talent, just nothing great yet. IMO they are one semi-shutdown CB away from being a nasty D.

Offseason... Cockrell looks to me like a no brainer. Blake/Boykin is obviously a tough one. One will be gone next year. I think this is Gay's last year under contract. So technically we only have Cortez (for the moment lol), Grant & Golson under contract for next season. Will be interesting to see how that all pans out leading up to the draft.

Grant & Golson... Hard to know what they have just yet. I like how they are giving Grant the opportunity to make some impact on ST. Should be good for him. Golson will have a lot of eyes on him this offseason. A high end draft pick that we have yet to see anything from is plenty of fuel for curiosity.

They have a LOT of work to do on the back end.

FS...I agree Golden showed himself well...maybe what we saw is his ceiling, but worthy of keeping as a reserve. They can't continue to count on Will Allen...we pretty much know that. Shark is UC for next year, but I think we've seen the end of his run in PIT...he could play under LeBeau, and we're now seeing he can't get on the field for Butler either. Walter Football is mocking a S from Clem, Kearse...know little to nothing about him.

CB...C. Allen will be given a shot to show he's healthy and truly deserving of another spot on this roster...else he will be released. Cockrell is a lock for '16 (cheap too)...Gay/Blake/Boykin are UFAs I think. Grant will be a FA also, because he was released from him rookie deal and re-signed, but PIT has control.

So...that leaves Golson, Cockrell, and Grant that we can can count on being back if they are desired. I'm sure Tomlin will try to retain Gay. It's too bad that C Allen hasn't worked out...him, Cockrell and Gay/Golson (hopefully this kid works out), but if they were already slotting snaps for him as a rookie...they think he can play.

They will probably end up with another 3rd or 4th round pick @ CB. I can't imagine them picking up JJ's option, so I can see them going OLB...AGAIN...or G. (I think AVill is progressing enough to where I don't expect them to pick a OT high). I wouldn't be surprised to see another DE, DT/NT.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

They have a LOT of work to do on the back end.

FS...I agree Golden showed himself well...maybe what we saw is his ceiling, but worthy of keeping as a reserve. They can't continue to count on Will Allen...we pretty much know that. Shark is UC for next year, but I think we've seen the end of his run in PIT...he could play under LeBeau, and we're now seeing he can't get on the field for Butler either. Walter Football is mocking a S from Clem, Kearse...know little to nothing about him.

CB...C. Allen will be given a shot to show he's healthy and truly deserving of another spot on this roster...else he will be released. Cockrell is a lock for '16 (cheap too)...Gay/Blake/Boykin are UFAs I think. Grant will be a FA also, because he was released from him rookie deal and re-signed, but PIT has control.

So...that leaves Golson, Cockrell, and Grant that we can can count on being back if they are desired. I'm sure Tomlin will try to retain Gay. It's too bad that C Allen hasn't worked out...him, Cockrell and Gay/Golson (hopefully this kid works out), but if they were already slotting snaps for him as a rookie...they think he can play.

They will probably end up with another 3rd or 4th round pick @ CB. I can't imagine them picking up JJ's option, so I can see them going OLB...AGAIN...or G. (I think AVill is progressing enough to where I don't expect them to pick a OT high). I wouldn't be surprised to see another DE, DT/NT.

FS... Shark has potential if he can be used correctly. Biggest problems from camp was that he couldn't cover worth a damn. But stout in run support and short/intermediate game. (looks around for Misko... coast is clear) I really hope they have a shot at the Cash kid from Duke. He would be a very welcome addition IMO. I don't know much about Kearse though.

CB... I think the team has invested enough money into the catastrophic failure that is Cortez. He's getting paid way too much to be pushed down the depth chart and held out of games because of distrust. I think we've seen the last of him wearing the black & gold. Forgot about Grant being cut/resigned. Good point!

Draft... No doubt they'll go after another CB. How aggressively will be determined on how many guys they retain. The O-line situation will be something to monitor through the offseason. Beachum & DeCastro should be resigned, but how much will they cost? Foster is a UFA, I believe. Top end draft pick seems likely if the right guy is there. Not sure how much JJ's option would be, but if its not ridiculous I say bring him back. He's not the guy they envisioned, but he's still a solid player. I know Porter likes him.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

FS... Shark has potential if he can be used correctly. Biggest problems from camp was that he couldn't cover worth a damn. But stout in run support and short/intermediate game. (looks around for Misko... coast is clear) I really hope they have a shot at the Cash kid from Duke. He would be a very welcome addition IMO. I don't know much about Kearse though.

CB... I think the team has invested enough money into the catastrophic failure that is Cortez. He's getting paid way too much to be pushed down the depth chart and held out of games because of distrust. I think we've seen the last of him wearing the black & gold. Forgot about Grant being cut/resigned. Good point!

Draft... No doubt they'll go after another CB. How aggressively will be determined on how many guys they retain. The O-line situation will be something to monitor through the offseason. Beachum & DeCastro should be resigned, but how much will they cost? Foster is a UFA, I believe. Top end draft pick seems likely if the right guy is there. Not sure how much JJ's option would be, but if its not ridiculous I say bring him back. He's not the guy they envisioned, but he's still a solid player. I know Porter likes him.

If we don't see Boykin after that effort from Blake (who is supposedly battling some type of hand/wrist injury) we never will.

In the biggest moment in the game...unless some one was left uncovered totally...I think it's safe to assume RW's #1 target on that 3rd play was to whomever Blake was guarding...even as stubborn as Tomlin is on such matters...they cannot have much confidence in #41 now.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

The times they are a changin'

Steelers snap totals vs. the Colts point to a successful shake up in the secondary

SNAP TOTALS
Gary: 46
Cockrell: 43
Boykin: 40
Blake: 32

Could it be that Tomlin finally pulled his head out of his ass?

 

[Psych-Ward]

The times they are a changin'

Steelers snap totals vs. the Colts point to a successful shake up in the secondary

SNAP TOTALS
Gary: 46
Cockrell: 43
Boykin: 40
Blake: 32

Could it be that Tomlin finally pulled his head out of his ass?

I thought it was a good mix up.... Kept everyone fresh and WE DIDN'T HAVE TO WATCH MITCHELL try to run someone down from across the field!!! I liked how it was run and hope they keep doing it!!!

 

[Bridgeburner]

FREE BOYKIN!

FINALLY!