Bonds conviction overturned

[GNG]

Bonds never committed the cardinal sin against baseball.

Edge Barry

Game. Set. Match (on the HOF debate)

HOMER ALERT !!

 

[calsnowskier]

HOMER ALERT !!

How is stating a fact being a homer?

 

[GNG]

How is stating a fact being a homer?

 

[Sandisfan]

I've gone over this mental exercise before. The investigator had an agenda and hated Bonds. That said, there was need to get the use of PED's to stop. The prosecutors chose to treat Bonds unlike any other accused. They gave heads up to the attorneys and those testifying but not Bonds.

In the trial the prosecutors claimed Bonds didn't use until Major league baseball made heroes of Sosa and McGwire while knowing that they were in the forefront of PED use. So in conclusion Bonds was treated like an ordinary player while those less skilled than he were made the face of baseball all the time MLB probably knew and were more interested in building up baseball again after the post-season losing strike and with a very strong Union who could care less about the problem there was no reason not to consider using PED's.

Also excluding a very few early high end (players) user like Canseco most the those who used started were from the bottom up. There was pressure from the lowest end players on the middle talent and some of those were losing a lot of money to those who were using. The pressure was there for the middle talent as they were in danger of losing their jobs and paycheck.

Did you know that the grossest form of steroids became available around the time Babe Ruth stated hitting home-runs as never before? Now I really doubt that he knew about that and never used but it was available even back then.

Now do you think that some of the lower to middling guys back then if they knew of the sports related benefits would not have used? Of course there would have been some who would have used even including some players who ended up going to the Hall. It's human nature to try to get ahead even with shenanigans.

Can you really say that if you were a fringe player with little chance to make any real money playing the game and had the chance to make a couple million over a shortish career that you would have foregone that opportunity? Think, on one hand the chance to play in the minors with just enough pay and then having to start a real career with no money in the bank or the opportunity to make some gelt(money) for you're post career life. Assuming the PED's make you an effective role player...could you really resist? And should you be human and use you would be putting pressure on those who you are trying to replace to keep up even if that means using.

All of this means that the responsibility was on both MLB and the Players Union to sort out and keep the sport clean and even then the players are human and the payoff large so don't think even you and you're mighty self wouldn't even consider the use if you were in their position.

 

[Mays-Fan]

I'd vote for Pete Rose before I'd vote for Barry Bonds.

At worst, Barry Bonds ruined it for himself. Which he, in fact, didn't.

At best, Pete Rose demolished the integrity of the game of baseball. Which he, in fact, did.

This isn't even an argument.

This is over. And I'm ignoring you after this post, so I won't be seeing your response.

 

[redseat]

I think Bonds will make it someday. It will take awhile.

before Rose? I'm thinking yes

 

[ColinCoby]

Lets look JUST at 1999 and earlier (generally considered the pre-roid Barry) vs Rose's career...

HR - 452 vs 160 Edge: Barry
MVPs - 3 vs 1 Edge: Barry
MVP top 5 - 7 vs 5 Edge: Barry
Gold Gloves - 8 vs 2 Edge: Barry
OPS > 1 - 9 vs 0 Edge: Barry
OPS > .9 - 10 vs 1 Edge: Barry
OPS+ > 150 - 10 vs 2 Edge: Barry
SB - 450 vs 198 Edge: Barry
20/20 seasons - 10 vs 0 Edge: Barry
30/30 seasons - 6 vs 0 Edge: Barry
40/40 seasons - 1 vs 0 Edge: Barry


You are right. Rose was a better player

 

[Robotech]

Bonds and Rose were both great players, but Bonds is a class or two or more above Rose as far as great players go. 162.4 WAR for Bonds versus 79.1 WAR for Rose, who played nearly 600 more games than Bonds. Seven MVP awards to one MVP for Rose. Pete Rose did have more hits, but Bonds had more total bases despite the dearth of hittable pitches that came his way.

 

[Wamu]

Greg Anderson's name needs to be mentioned again. On 5-5-06 Anderson was found in contempt of court for refusing to testify against Bonds. Anderson was BB's personal trainer & was connected to BALCO. Now if Bonds was really clean why wouldn't his hand picked personal trainer take the stand, what info was Anderson hiding?

 

[msgkings322]

Greg Anderson's name needs to be mentioned again. On 5-5-06 Anderson was found in contempt of court for refusing to testify against Bonds. Anderson was BB's personal trainer & was connected to BALCO. Now if Bonds was really clean why wouldn't his hand picked personal trainer take the stand, what info was Anderson hiding?

No one is arguing Bonds was 'clean'. He used, we know that. But so did a lot of other players, and he was better than all of them before and after using. HOF worthy no doubt (Clemens too).

 

[msgkings322]

By the way is it sacrilege for me to think Puig is kind of like a young Bonds? The whole package....

 

[Wamu]

No one is arguing Bonds was 'clean'. He used, we know that. But so did a lot of other players, and he was better than all of them before and after using. HOF worthy no doubt (Clemens too).

I disagree that Bonds (or anyone else directly associated w/ the **Steroid Era**) is HOF worthy. While cheating has always been a part of the game never has the illegal assault on the record books happened in this fashion. To me the MLB Homerun mark is one of the most hallowed records in American sports. It just bothers me that so many great hitters had to juice up when a lot of them were HOF caliber players w/o using anything. Examples: McGwire lied, Palmeiro lied, freaking Sammy Sosa forgot how to speak English when questioned! Oh yeah & then there's A Rod. Every player I just mentioned has disgraced the game of baseball & hopefully none of them get into Cooperstown unless they visit the place on a vacation.

 

[tzill]

I disagree that Bonds (or anyone else directly associated w/ the **Steroid Era**) is HOF worthy. While cheating has always been a part of the game never has the illegal assault on the record books happened in this fashion. To me the MLB Homerun mark is one of the most hallowed records in American sports. It just bothers me that so many great hitters had to juice up when a lot of them were HOF caliber players w/o using anything. Examples: McGwire lied, Palmeiro lied, freaking Sammy Sosa forgot how to speak English when questioned! Oh yeah & then there's A Rod. Every player I just mentioned has disgraced the game of baseball & hopefully none of them get into Cooperstown unless they visit the place on a vacation.

Yawn...another Bonds hater. We could go down the whole "it wasn't breaking the rules of baseball" route, but I suspect your mind is made up. It doesn't matter. I got to see the GOAT play a LOT of games. He was amazing, and any HOF without its greatest player is a sham.

 

[Wamu]

Yawn...another Bonds hater. We could go down the whole "it wasn't breaking the rules of baseball" route, but I suspect your mind is made up. It doesn't matter. I got to see the GOAT play a LOT of games. He was amazing, and any HOF without its greatest player is a sham.

Did I mention ONLY Bonds? The answer is NO. I suggest you take off your custom made Homer Glasses & understand I'm not singling one player, I mentioned multiple players. Although if you only noticed Barry's name in that comment of mine...well that's on you.

 

[williewilliejuan]

I disagree that Bonds (or anyone else directly associated w/ the **Steroid Era**) is HOF worthy. While cheating has always been a part of the game never has the illegal assault on the record books happened in this fashion. To me the MLB Homerun mark is one of the most hallowed records in American sports. It just bothers me that so many great hitters had to juice up when a lot of them were HOF caliber players w/o using anything. Examples: McGwire lied, Palmeiro lied, freaking Sammy Sosa forgot how to speak English when questioned! Oh yeah & then there's A Rod. Every player I just mentioned has disgraced the game of baseball & hopefully none of them get into Cooperstown unless they visit the place on a vacation.

Why is the HR record "hallowed"? If a player took the substances that Aaron has admitted to using (greenies), he could be suspended and/or banned from the game. Granted, greenies don't help someone hit a ball farther but they do allow players to participate in games where they would otherwise sit. Since Aaron's record was mostly a product of longevity (he wasn't generally the best HR hitter in his era), that is important.

 

[tzill]

Did I mention ONLY Bonds? The answer is NO. I suggest you take off your custom made Homer Glasses & understand I'm not singling one player, I mentioned multiple players. Although if you only noticed Barry's name in that comment of mine...well that's on you.

You made your effing comment on a GIANTS board, in a thread called "Bonds Conviction Overturned." If you can't see the connection, nobody can help you.

Where is your outrage for all the players (including Rose) who took greenies?

/crickets

 

[tzill]

Why is the HR record "hallowed"? If a player took the substances that Aaron has admitted to using (greenies), he could be suspended and/or banned from the game. Granted, greenies don't help someone hit a ball farther but they do allow players to participate in games where they would otherwise sit. Since Aaron's record was mostly a product of longevity (he wasn't generally the best HR hitter in his era), that is important.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Amphetamines help players battle through fatigue and actually play better, especially later in the season. Which is exactly why Aaron, Mays, Gibson, and most other players took them. Rose was a notorious greenie user. So in a very real sense, players did hit the ball farther, throw harder, and run faster than they would've been able to sans the drugs.

Anyone (not you, obviously) who parces the difference between amphetamines and steroids is either a) a Bonds hater or b) a hypocrite or c) both.

 

[Wamu]

You made your effing comment on a GIANTS board, in a thread called "Bonds Conviction Overturned." If you can't see the connection, nobody can help you.

Where is your outrage for all the players (including Rose) who took greenies?

/crickets

Is Bonds directly connected to the **Steroid Era** of baseball? Come on now, be honest. And the only reason I mentioned other players is so you biased Giants fans don't go crazy (too late!) & claim I'm only singling out one player, which of course I have not. So since you can't make the connection I'll spell it out for you...currently I am talking about the **Steroid Era** of baseball, nothing else. Hopefully you understand that. Like I said earlier cheating has always been part of the game. Although before the **Steroid Era** of baseball the illegal assault on the MLB record books has never happened in this fashion.

 

[tzill]

Is Bonds directly connected to the **Steroid Era** of baseball? Come on now, be honest. And the only reason I mentioned other players is so you biased Giants fans don't go crazy (too late!) & claim I'm only singling out one player, which of course I have not. So since you can't make the connection I'll spell it out for you...currently I am talking about the **Steroid Era** of baseball, nothing else. Hopefully you understand that. Like I said earlier cheating has always been part of the game. Although before the **Steroid Era** of baseball the illegal assault on the MLB record books has never happened in this fashion.

So if I follow your flawed logic: SOME cheating is ok, but STEROID cheating is not?

Wow. I can't help you here.

Not to mention the fact that taking steroids wasn't against the rules until 2004.

 

[Wamu]

So if I follow your flawed logic: SOME cheating is ok, but STEROID cheating is not?

Wow. I can't help you here.

Not to mention the fact that taking steroids wasn't against the rules until 2004.

I never said SOME cheating is okay. Those are your words. Show me ONE COMMENT where I have said that SOME cheating is okay. Come on, I dare ya! If you can't simply stop making shit up. You seem blinded by your Giants loyalty. It's not like I only mentioned Bonds though correct? I'm talking about the **Steroid Era** of the game & nothing else right now. Hopefully you understand that.