Best Starting Pitchers of the Last 35 Years

[Omar 382]

I can't see Pettitte as a HOFer...he was consistently very solid/pretty good, but only had 2-3 great years. Ourside of those seasons 2-3 seasons, his career was filled with many 110 ERA+, 1.3 WHIP seasons, and I don't think that's good enough.

Yeah, I think he is a tougher case. His JAWS and WAR7 are low, which lends thought to the theory that his 68.9 WAR is an example of being good for many years, not great. I still wouldn't mind if he got in though. 1997 and 2001, his two best years, were extremely hitter friendly eras (18th and 16th worst FIP, respectively). Now you could make the same argument for Glavine, Smoltz, and Mussina, but I want them all in.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Well, he does have to meet the 10 year requirement first.

Koufax was only Koufax for five years.

Pedro is a lock. Halladay is a lock. Santana probably should be.

Verlander couldn't hold Sabathia's jock.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Yeah, it's hard for me to say that there is a dearth of pitching superstars with the last ~10 years of Kershaw, and strong support from Greinke, Price, Felix, and Halladay

Greinke?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Halladay's a good debate, because he didn't have great longevity, but he has the peak/prime. He only had 8 'full' seasons (160+ innings), but in 7 of them he was probably a top 3 pitcher in the league, so he made those full seasons count.

I'm on the fence (probably leaning towards yes), but it could really go either way imo..

Lock.

 

[Chewbaccer]

Koufax was only Koufax for five years.

Pedro is a lock. Halladay is a lock. Santana probably should be.

Verlander couldn't hold Sabathia's jock.

I meant the HOF has a requirement that players must play for at least 10 seasons to be eligible. If CLayton Kershaw retired today, he wouldn't be eligible for the HOF.

 

[msgkings322]

Some great pitchers the pasy 35 years, Clemens, Maddux, johnson and Martinez looks like a great top 5 to me.

Looks more like a great top 4 to me....

Of that list Martinez obviously was the best performer in terms of peak years, very Koufax-like. The other 3 had better overall careers but those are easily the top 4 in some order.

 

[Cedrique]

What about Dave Stieb?


Edit--my bad, I just looked him up and his career started in '79

 

[Omar 382]

For those adamantly against Pettitte but in favor of Glavine, let's look at their best 3 WAR seasons. For Andy Pettitte, in 1997 his FIP was 48% better than league average. In 2001 it was 46% better than league average, and in 2003 it was 31% better. In 1991, Glavine's FIP was 28% better than league average; 32% in 1996; and 27% in 1998. They're a lot closer than you might think.

 

[Hangman]

Mariano Rivera might be on this list. He wasn't a starter, but he could close.

Also the best pitcher I have every seen was Pedro. He could beat hitters with his mind and his stuff. Him coming in to beat the Indians was one of the best pitching performances ever. The only thing that I have seen come close was Bumgarner in the world series game 7. Once they entered the game the other team knew it was over.

 

[Omar 382]

Mariano Rivera might be on this list. He wasn't a starter, but he could close.

Also the best pitcher I have every seen was Pedro. He could beat hitters with his mind and his stuff. Him coming in to beat the Indians was one of the best pitching performances ever. The only thing that I have seen come close was Bumgarner in the world series game 7. Once they entered the game the other team knew it was over.

Yep, a guy who threw less than 1/3 of the innings of a SP should be on the list.

 

[Omar 382]

Mariano Rivera might be on this list. He wasn't a starter, but he could close.

Also the best pitcher I have every seen was Pedro. He could beat hitters with his mind and his stuff. Him coming in to beat the Indians was one of the best pitching performances ever. The only thing that I have seen come close was Bumgarner in the world series game 7. Once they entered the game the other team knew it was over.

Yeah, no

 

[Skerpokes]

Ummmm......anyone.....anyone?? Nolan Ryan doesn't make the top 30?

 

[StanMarsh51]

Ummmm......anyone.....anyone?? Nolan Ryan doesn't make the top 30?

View attachment 98898

pitchers who started their careers from the early 1980s onward

Ryan doesn't meet the criteria.

 

[Skerpokes]

My bad. Reading is for Nerds

 

[StanMarsh51]

Updated list (top WAR as of the end of 2017)


1) Roger Clemens
2) Greg Maddux
3) Randy Johnson
4) Pedro Martinez
5) Mike Mussina
6) Curt Schilling
7) Tom Glavine
8) Kevin Brown
9) John Smoltz
10) Roy Halladay
11) David Cone
12) Andy Pettitte
13) CC Sabathia
14) Mark Buehrle
15) Bret Saberhagen
16) Chuck Finley
17) Clayton Kershaw
18) Tim Hudson
19) Zack Greinke
20) Justin Verlander
21) Kevin Appier
22) David Wells
23) Cole Hamels
24) Felix Hernandez
25) Orel Hershiser
26) Kenny Rogers
27) Johan Sanana
28) Mark Langston
29) Jamie Moyer
30) Roy Oswalt


Notable changes in the past 2 seasons:
-CC moves from #18 to #13
-Kershaw moves from outside of the top 30 to #17
-Greinke moves from #28 to #19
-Hamels moves from outside of the top 30 to #23

Scherzer with another Cy caliber year or 2 solid seasons could crack the list....

 

[navamind]

Updated list (top WAR as of the end of 2017)


1) Roger Clemens
2) Greg Maddux
3) Randy Johnson
4) Pedro Martinez
5) Mike Mussina
6) Curt Schilling
7) Tom Glavine
8) Kevin Brown
9) John Smoltz
10) Roy Halladay
11) David Cone
12) Andy Pettitte
13) CC Sabathia
14) Mark Buehrle
15) Bret Saberhagen
16) Chuck Finley
17) Clayton Kershaw
18) Tim Hudson
19) Zack Greinke
20) Justin Verlander
21) Kevin Appier
22) David Wells
23) Cole Hamels
24) Felix Hernandez
25) Orel Hershiser
26) Kenny Rogers
27) Johan Sanana
28) Mark Langston
29) Jamie Moyer
30) Roy Oswalt


Notable changes in the past 2 seasons:
-CC moves from #18 to #13
-Kershaw moves from outside of the top 30 to #17
-Greinke moves from #28 to #19
-Hamels moves from outside of the top 30 to #23

Scherzer with another Cy caliber year or 2 solid seasons could crack the list....

Lester could also crack this list in the next 2-3 years.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Here's the list of pitchers by Hall Rating (weighted WAR basically) who started their careers after 1980.

1. Roger Clemens
2. Greg Maddux
3. Randy Johnson
4. Pedro Martinez
5. Curt Schilling
6. Mike Mussina
7. Tom Glavine
8. Roy Halladay
9. Kevin Brown
10. John Smoltz
11. David Cone
12. Clayton Kershaw
13. Bret Saberhagen
14. Zack Greinke
15. CC Sabathia
16. Kevin Appier
17. Justin Verlander
18. Andy Pettitte
19. Chuck Finley
20. Tim Hudson
21. Johan Santana
22. Cole Hamels
23. Roy Oswalt
24. Mark Buehrle
25. Orel Hershiser
26. David Wells
27. Felix Hernandez
28. Kenny Rogers
29. Mark Langston
30. Jimmy Key

 

[Cedrique]

Did David Cone ever come close to making the Hall of Fame? It seems like his stats would be enough to at least give him some good consideration.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Did David Cone ever come close to making the Hall of Fame? It seems like his stats would be enough to at least give him some good consideration.

Nope, one and done. Just like Kevin Brown

 

[dougplayer]

Why not have a debate on it? Looking at it from a career perspective, the leaders in WAR (Baseball Reference's version) from pitchers who started their careers from the early 1980s onward:


1) Roger Clemens
2) Greg Maddux
3) Randy Johnson
4) Pedro Martinez
5) Mike Mussina
6) Curt Schilling
7) Tom Glavine
8) Kevin Brown
9) John Smoltz
10) Roy Halladay
11) David Cone
12) Andy Pettitte
13) Mark Buehrle
14) Bret Saberhagen
15) Chuck Finley
16) Tim Hudson
17) Kevin Appier
18) CC Sabathia
19) David Wells
20) Orel Hershiser
21) Kenny Rogers
22) Johan Santana
23) Mark Langston
24) Jamie Moyer
25) Roy Oswalt
26) Felix Hernandez
27) Jimmy Key
28) Zack Greinke
29) Dwight Gooden
30) Frank Viola

Kershaw with a good 2016 probably will crack the top 25...

You fool.. you left out one of the best rightys to come down the pike in a long time. J. VERLANDER... wake up man!!