Ben Simmons formally demands trade

[fightinfunbags]

Honestly, I think Simmons would be a great move for OKC. Obviously some risk but the Thunder aren't going anywhere next year. Let him run the team.

Obviously you'd have to figure out whether it could work with SGA, assuming he stays with the team.

I think based on the Sixers current roster needs, SGA would be the piece Morey needs to do that deal. Simmons isn’t Kemba. Kemba is an asset that isn’t going to likely improve. It’s a banged up asset that’s also older and that asset plays a speed game so it’s diminishing rapidly. Simmons is you buying a stock after the CEO got Weinsteined but you know it’s got great bones and a chance to go next level after the shit shakes out.

 

[flyerhawk]

That said, using assets to get Simmons isn’t an awful idea.

They probably have the assets to land Zion and Luka lol

LOL. The problem for the Thunder is that they have a LOT of assets but none of them are really premium assets. They need to work those assets to get something better.

 

[flyerhawk]

I think that’s overblown. Shaq and Dwight Howard still found ways to impact games despite being horrible foul shooters. Simmons will never be great but for the official first time he really saw hack a Ben he didn’t handle it well and 55% became 35%. I think that’s an anomaly. And the kryptonite to Hack a Ben is him getting down hill more and making 10 trips to the line dictated by the opponent 18-20 trips to the line because people would rather 1 of 2 than him getting an easy two. That game isn’t there when you’re on a team with Embiid.

Certainly I don't think that he is likely to replicated 31% from the stripe.

But the big difference between Shaq, Dwight and Ben is that Shaq and Dwight were low post players who could power through the foul, get the basket and then shoot the FT. Also, they weren't the primary ball handlers.

The issue isn't simply that he is a poor free throw shooter. The issue is that it affects his game. He plays soft and scared. Giannis is a pretty poor free throw shooter as well. Except he drives to the hoop and scores while getting fouled.

 

[The Q]

LOL. The problem for the Thunder is that they have a LOT of assets but none of them are really premium assets. They need to work those assets to get something better.

I disagree. Those rockets picks are likely too 10 picks. But still, when you have 30 first round picks. Pretty much anything is on the table

 

[flyerhawk]

I disagree. Those rockets picks are likely too 10 picks. But still, when you have 30 first round picks. Pretty much anything is on the table

The 2024 Rockets pick is top 4 protected. If it doesn't convey it converts into 2 2nd rounders
The 2025 Rockets pick is top 10 protected.
The 2026 Rockets pick is top 4 protected.

The Thunder are going to need the Rockets to really thread the needle of being mediocre but not atrocious.

IMO, those picks all have value BUT they are not crown jewel picks.

Honestly if Kawhi doesn't come back and Paul George has a serious injury that 2022 Clippers pick may turn out to be the best pick they get.

 

[The Q]

The 2024 Rockets pick is top 4 protected. If it doesn't convey it converts into 2 2nd rounders
The 2025 Rockets pick is top 10 protected.
The 2026 Rockets pick is top 4 protected.

The Thunder are going to need the Rockets to really thread the needle of being mediocre but not atrocious.

IMO, those picks all have value BUT they are not crown jewel picks.

Honestly if Kawhi doesn't come back and Paul George has a serious injury that 2022 Clippers pick may turn out to be the best pick they get.

The rockets are already trying (for whatever reason)

See the theis signing (idk what they’re doing).

I would be surprised if the 2024 didn’t covert, but stranger things have happened

 

[thunderc]

The 2024 Rockets pick is top 4 protected. If it doesn't convey it converts into 2 2nd rounders
The 2025 Rockets pick is top 10 protected.
The 2026 Rockets pick is top 4 protected.

The Thunder are going to need the Rockets to really thread the needle of being mediocre but not atrocious.

IMO, those picks all have value BUT they are not crown jewel picks.

Honestly if Kawhi doesn't come back and Paul George has a serious injury that 2022 Clippers pick may turn out to be the best pick they get.

They also have unprotected picks from the Clippers in 24 and 26. Who knows down the road.

 

[flyerhawk]

The rockets are already trying (for whatever reason)

See the theis signing (idk what they’re doing).

I would be surprised if the 2024 didn’t covert, but stranger things have happened

I'm sure that the pick will have value. But it's not a game changing kind of pick.

 

[flyerhawk]

They also have unprotected picks from the Clippers in 24 and 26. Who knows down the road.

Yeah they may have value but they are so far away that it is hard to know what value they have right now.

 

[Iggloo]

I can totally see Presti somehow getting into the act on a Simmons trade, taking on salary in exchange for picks. How many more picks this man needs, I don't know, but his M.O. is clear.

 

[tlance]

That said, using assets to get Simmons isn’t an awful idea.

They probably have the assets to land Zion and Luka lol

I know you are joking.

But players of that caliber on rookie contracts are completely untradeable.

Just too much value.

 

[The Q]

I know you are joking.

But players of that caliber on rookie contracts are completely untradeable.

Just too much value.

They have an insane amount of assets. It’s so fun to think about lol

 

[flyerhawk]

They have an insane amount of assets. It’s so fun to think about lol

It is going to be interesting to see what they do with those assets.

But, obviously, they could offer all of those assets and the Mavs aren't trading Luka and NO isn't trading Zion.

 

[The Q]

It is going to be interesting to see what they do with those assets.

But, obviously, they could offer all of those assets and the Mavs aren't trading Luka and NO isn't trading Zion.

Yeah it’s more like you get 10 firsts that’s basically what beal and Lillard or Simmons go for

 

[trojanfan12]

I disagree. Embiid (a dominant 5 most effective on the block and the elbow) is the worst possible pairing with Ben Simmons. His drive and finish game or drive and kick to a shooter is the strength of his offensive game. The Sixers also fooled around a little bit with him posting at the foul line and being a passer or driver from that spot. That becomes difficult to even explore with Embiid on the floor. I felt like of all the nonsense Simmons has been spewing recently that the only one that made sense is that Simmons/Embiid is a bad fit for Simmons's game.

Embiid and Simmons weren't an ideal fit. But, imo, a big part of the problem was in the offense. Embiid isn't a great 3 point shooter, but he's good enough that they could run some sets with him moving to the 3 point line so Simmons could drive and finish or dish. They could also have been a pretty devastating pick and roll/pick and pop duo.

Magic and Kareem figured it out and Kareem was rarely more that 5-8 feet from the basket.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Embiid and Simmons weren't an ideal fit. But, imo, a big part of the problem was in the offense. Embiid isn't a great 3 point shooter, but he's good enough that they could run some sets with him moving to the 3 point line so Simmons could drive and finish or dish. They could also have been a pretty devastating pick and roll/pick and pop duo.

Magic and Kareem figured it out and Kareem was rarely more that 5-8 feet from the basket.

Not sure why but Brett Brown was anti-pick and roll. It was frustrating to see him have two pick and roll players in Harris and Jimmy Butler and yet he would rarely if ever employ it.

 

[trojanfan12]

Not sure why but Brett Brown was anti-pick and roll. It was frustrating to see him have two pick and roll players in Harris and Jimmy Butler and yet he would rarely if ever employ it.

Yeah, I don't understand why some coaches are averse to it. It can be virtually unstoppable with the right guys running it.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Yeah, I don't understand why some coaches are averse to it. It can be virtually unstoppable with the right guys running it.

Run well, it’s nearly impossible for the defense to take every part of it away as long as the other 3 guys correctly space the floor. For a guy that watches a ton of Sixers the value of pick and roll is seen in a great defensive player like Embiid struggling vs great pick and roll attacks.

 

[trojanfan12]

Run well, it’s nearly impossible for the defense to take every part of it away as long as the other 3 guys correctly space the floor. For a guy that watches a ton of Sixers the value of pick and roll is seen in a great defensive player like Embiid struggling vs great pick and roll attacks.

The pick and roll was Shaq's defensive kryptonite. He could defend it, but he hated it and it was taxing on him. He used to kind of pick and choose when to truly put a full effort into it. He'd save it for late in games. But for most of the game he'd try to neutralize it a bit by dominating on offense.

 

[fightinfunbags]

The pick and roll was Shaq's defensive kryptonite. He could defend it, but he hated it and it was taxing on him. He used to kind of pick and choose when to truly put a full effort into it. He'd save it for late in games. But for most of the game he'd try to neutralize it a bit by dominating on offense.

Trae Young ran a pick and roll clinic in the first half of game 1 in Philly in that series they won. He worked like all 4-5 options on the play to perfection.