Ben Simmons formally demands trade

[flyerhawk]

Versus...if you sell him for pennies on the dollar you're in that situation forever shutting the door on the possibility of a championship in Embiid's prime. This is huge. If they handcuff themselves with what they bring back, it may be too late to fix before Embiid crosses that threshold of being on the back end. Given that either/or, it's pretty clear that you have him sit.

Giving Simmons away for a bunch or rotation players is GM malpractice. No way that Morey will do that.

He would be more likely to trade him away for picks, trade some other assets for picks and take a big swing at a star.

 

[flyerhawk]

Then what is the issue with trading him? Clearly everyone should read this article and agree on an amicable trade.

The issue is perceived value.

If the Pelicans decided they wanted to trade Brandon Ingram, what would his trade value be? Or Zack Lavine? Or Klay Thompson for that matter? I mention them because they were all around the same point as Simmons in that list that fightin linked to.

Trade value doesn't always reflect actual worth of a player because other factors like salary, length of contract, and team urgency come into play.

If the Bulls start of 15-5, they are going to be pretty happy with their team and plan to re-sign Zack Lavine next year. If they start off 5-15, they are going to think long and hard about whether they would be better off moving on from Lavine and getting a player like Simmons who would make an immediate impact could be the best move for them.

Simmons actual impact on the court never changes in the above scenario but the Bulls perception of him does.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

The issue is perceived value.

If the Pelicans decided they wanted to trade Brandon Ingram, what would his trade value be? Or Zack Lavine? Or Klay Thompson for that matter? I mention them because they were all around the same point as Simmons in that list that fightin linked to.

Trade value doesn't always reflect actual worth of a player because other factors like salary, length of contract, and team urgency come into play.

If the Bulls start of 15-5, they are going to be pretty happy with their team and plan to re-sign Zack Lavine next year. If they start off 5-15, they are going to think long and hard about whether they would be better off moving on from Lavine and getting a player like Simmons who would make an immediate impact could be the best move for them.

Simmons actual impact on the court never changes in the above scenario but the Bulls perception of him does.

You are conflating possibilities with reality.

 

[flyerhawk]

You are conflating possibilities with reality.

How am I doing that? Are you saying that Simmons trade value is fixed to whatever it is right now and teams will not adjust their perceived value as the season progresses?

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

How am I doing that? Are you saying that Simmons trade value is fixed to whatever it is right now and teams will not adjust their perceived value as the season progresses?

Yes. Teams know that the longer the sixers hold out on this the worse it is going to play out.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Yes. Teams know that the longer the sixers hold out on this the worse it is going to play out.

Why? I disagree. He’s not even going to be at the facility. It’s out of sight and out of mind. A happy accident is more minutes for a player in Maxey they want to evaluate.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

Why? I disagree. He’s not even going to be at the facility. It’s out of sight and out of mind. A happy accident is more minutes for a player in Maxey they want to evaluate.

Fair enough. We just disagree on this.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yes. Teams know that the longer the sixers hold out on this the worse it is going to play out.

You are making a lot of assumptions.

If the Sixers start off 15-5, how will their situation with Simmons be worse? You seem to think that the Sixers are under a great deal of pressure to move Simmons regardless of value. I see no evidence that this is true.

Simmons is staring at the face of losing 30 million dollars. Not only that but I wouldn't be surprised if someone discovers that there is something in the CBA that says that if a player refuses to show, that the season doesn't even accrue. Which would mean that he would STILL have 4 years left on his contract next year.

If the Sixers struggle out of the gate then they may feel pressure to move Simmons. But to assume that the only direction for Simmons' value to go is down is really short sighted. The value of any player is going to be much lower now than other times of the year. Simply because teams have made all their moves and are only going to be interested in making a deal now if it is a huge win for the team.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

You are making a lot of assumptions.

If the Sixers start off 15-5, how will their situation with Simmons be worse? You seem to think that the Sixers are under a great deal of pressure to move Simmons regardless of value. I see no evidence that this is true.

Simmons is staring at the face of losing 30 million dollars. Not only that but I wouldn't be surprised if someone discovers that there is something in the CBA that says that if a player refuses to show, that the season doesn't even accrue. Which would mean that he would STILL have 4 years left on his contract next year.

If the Sixers struggle out of the gate then they may feel pressure to move Simmons. But to assume that the only direction for Simmons' value to go is down is really short sighted. The value of any player is going to be much lower now than other times of the year. Simply because teams have made all their moves and are only going to be interested in making a deal now if it is a huge win for the team.

15-5 with simmons riding the bench is gonna have an effect on his trade value.

 

[flyerhawk]

15-5 with simmons riding the bench is gonna have an effect on his trade value.

LOL. OK. So, in your opinion, there is no way that the Sixers will get a decent trade for Simmons. That's fine I guess. To each their own.

 

[flyerhawk]

Sixers, Ben Simmons standoff continues as fines begin to hit home

Despite assurances through various media members of note, a league source says the financial significance of holding out is starting to take hold in Ben Simmons' camp.

www.phillyvoice.com

Though members of the organization are sympathetic to the accelerated timeline and expectations that have come with it (under several different management structures to boot), that argument is viewed as self-defeating, and the signing of his max extension was seen as the time where any reduced expectations went out the window.

Fair or unfair to Paul — and there's an argument he draws more heat than any non-player in the league right now — there are people at the team and league level who see this as the continuation of a pattern with his clients, characterized by one league source as throwing stuff at the wall and hoping something sticks. The expectation is that there will be another attention-seeking headline generated in the days to come as they assess their options of what to do next.

I do think that Klutch being part of this is a factor. IMO, teams are tired of their antics.

Also..

On the team side, the Sixers appear to be in relative lockstep so far, armed though they may be with the knowledge there are on-floor issues to solve without Simmons. As of this writing, Philadelphia would rather keep him as part of the organization and work through things as they can instead of trading him for a diminished return. They are banking on several factors, primarily their own ability to make due early in the season and the chance that uneasy situations might blow up elsewhere, to carry them through and eventually strengthen their options. They would (at least for now) be happy to have Simmons back, provided anyone can convince him returning is in his best interest.

This is pretty much my thinking. Morey is counting on the Sixers playing reasonably well and some other team struggling enough to panic.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

LOL. OK. So, in your opinion, there is no way that the Sixers will get a decent trade for Simmons. That's fine I guess. To each their own.

Is my opinion off? You said it yourself. If the sixers go 15-5 with simmons riding the pine, hiw does that affect his trade value?

 

[flyerhawk]

Is my opinion off? You said it yourself. If the sixers go 15-5 with simmons riding the pine, hiw does that affect his trade value?

It doesn't really change his value in any way. The Sixers are a good team with or without Simmons. If the Sixers start off hot that means that guys like Maxey and Thybulle and Milton have really elevated their game. It also means that Joel Embiid is fit and healthy.

Teams are not going to say "Well we have hundreds of hours of film on Simmons. But let's ignore that and focus on how the Sixers look without Simmons this season"

If the Sixers start off hot, it will give the Sixers even more latitude on whether they need to trade Simmons. It could even force Simmons back on the team.

Now realistically speaking, they probably WON'T start 15-5 so this is largely an academic discussion.

 

[msgkings322]

You are conflating possibilities with reality.

More like he's saying Morey's best option is to wait to see how the reality of various suitors plays out. By waiting for a potential trade partner to see where they are, Morey gets a better offer vs selling now.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

More like he's saying Morey's best option is to wait to see how the reality of various suitors plays out. By waiting for a potential trade partner to see where they are, Morey gets a better offer vs selling now.

At this point I also agree he's better off sitting until the end of November and seeing what comes then

 

[The Q]

At this point I also agree he's better off sitting until the end of November and seeing what comes then

might as well wait for mid december when other FA deals can start being used.

I think the Wizards using Dinwiddie and their other young pieces should make a run lol.

Simmons and Beal is a good foundation.

But others willl be out there as well.

The best case for Philly is waiting it out to hope that Portland or Washing goes 5-15 to start and one of the stars demands out.

Washington should probably 3 team Simmons and just totally blow it up at that point, but Portland might actually still be rather good if they keep simmons.

They'd actually get lower on the tax line and could actually use their exceptions. Maybe trade a covington before he leaves in FA. Same with Nurk. They can retool and potentailly make it work.

Washington probably does need to just blow it up like Hiroshima at that point.

 

[trojanfan12]

If the Sixers start off hot, it will give the Sixers even more latitude on whether they need to trade Simmons. It could even force Simmons back on the team.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. The Sixers starting strong doesn't necessarily lower Simmons trade value. The Sixers are a very good team without him. Especially if the other guys continue to improve.

It would definitely strengthen the Sixers resolve to wait him and other teams out.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. The Sixers starting strong doesn't necessarily lower Simmons trade value. The Sixers are a very good team without him. Especially if the other guys continue to improve.

It would definitely strengthen the Sixers resolve to wait him and other teams out.

Yeah. The nightmare scenario for the Sixers is a 3-7 start.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah. The nightmare scenario for the Sixers is a 3-7 start.

Yep, that's part of what is going to make it interesting, imo. Both sides look to have committed to playing hardball. How the Sixers start the season is going to go a long way to determining how this ends.

 

[Iggloo]

Some of you guys talking about pressure on the franchise for wasting Embiid's prime don't understand how strong the anti Simmons sentiment is in Philly right now. They could let him rot on the bench all season, waste another year of Embiid's career, and...fans will largely be happy. It's not like Simmons was doing anything in the playoffs anyway. He will likely get traded, but I don't think the team is facing any pressure from the fan base or really anyone to do anything quickly. Meanwhile Simmons is losing money, and if reports are to be believed, his cocky but incompetent representation didn't understand they would never get this money back, even if he is traded.