Barry Bonds - Regret

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I think you might be a little low ... everybody knew he was juicing back then, and if I played I would have too.

Very well could be.

Frankly, I believe Bonds' story that he wasn't using until PEDs blew up. He was unquestionably the best player in baseball and all of the sudden, all the attention is going to a couple of juiced up, one dimensional freaks and no one -- not the coaches, players, media or MLBPA -- is doing a damn thing about it. The story is that's what pushed him to it, and I'm buying.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

While we're on the subject, the MLBPA is the only group that grossly shirked their fiduciary duty.

A union's purpose is to provide a fair and safe environment for it's members to work in. I'm sure there were many players who begrudgingly took PEDs because they needed to in order to compete and no one was doing or even saying anything to stop the players.

In my opinion, the MLBPA has the most shit on its hands, not Bonds.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Very well could be.

Frankly, I believe Bonds' story that he wasn't using until PEDs blew up. He was unquestionably the best player in baseball and all of the sudden, all the attention is going to a couple of juiced up, one dimensional freaks and no one -- not the coaches, players, media or MLBPA -- is doing a damn thing about it. The story is that's what pushed him to it, and I'm buying.

I think the visual and statistical evidence concerning Bonds backs this story up.

 

[Erie Warrior]

Meh. Back when he was a lying cheating cock bag, I suspect as much as 90% of baseball players were also lying cheating cock bags.

I don't like steroids, and I'd like to see the game rid of them (I still think maybe 70% of players are on something), but I'm not going to scapegoat Bonds just because he was the best player to take PEDs.

True, but I didn't like Bonds before he became a cheating cocksucker.

 

[tducey]

Not fussy on Bonds, the person, but the guy had talent. For my money up there with guys like Ruth, Mays, Cobb and a few others as best baseball players ever.

 

[Omar 382]

I'm glad you're happy about Barry and all but "by far?" Ken Griffey Jr would like to offer you his Hall of Fame resume. You might think Bonds was better, fine, but don't pretend there's no argument.

lololololol

 

[broncosmitty]

I'm glad you're happy about Barry and all but "by far?" Ken Griffey Jr would like to offer you his Hall of Fame resume. You might think Bonds was better, fine, but don't pretend there's no argument.

It's not close.

 

[Cedrique]

Before the roids, Bill James wrote a brief essay about hypothetically trying to pick between Ted Williams and Barry Bonds to play LF...he never really made a choice, but pointed out that Bonds had some major advantages on defense (despite a mediocre arm) and on the bases that had to be seriously considered. Ted also had the advantage of playing in a league that was only approaching full integration towards the end of his career, the AL took a lot longer than the NL to warm to black players.
Barry always came across as an intelligent man, but reading thousands of words about the man has convinced me that he was a grade A prick from childhood...it's not like he was just a prick to the media. Like his fellow prick Randy Johnson, he has mellowed with age and is starting to learn how to make friends. As I think may have been said about the raging asshole Yankee Bob Meusel as his career was winding down and he started to behave like a human being, "He's learning to say hello when it's time to say goodbye."

Well said. But even though his playing career is over he is still only in his late 40's or early 50's. Some people don't change their whole lives. It is good to see him making an effort

 

[Cedrique]

It's a joke to even try to compare the two.

Career Slash
KG - .284/.370/.538/.907/136
BB - .298/.444/.607/1.051/182

Career SB/CS/SB%
KG - 184/69/72.7%
BB - 514/141/78.5%

Hardware
KG - AS-13 / GG-9 / SS-7 / MVP-1
BB - AS-14 / GG-8 / SS-12 / MVP-7

After doing this little bit of research, I'm convinced that @Podunkparte is Ken Griffey Jr's grandma. God bless her for sticking up for her little Kenny!

I think Bonds was better and personally I liked him better for whatever reason (there was less media then so I didn't know or care if Bonds was not friendly to some people, plus Griffey was in the AL) but they were actually contemporaries in their prime. Those lifetime numbers include the ridiculous numbers Bonds put up between ages 35 and 40 while Griffey at that time in his career was declining due to nagging injuries (which leads me to believe he might not have been juicing). So if you make the assumption that before 2000 either both or neither Bonds and Griffey were juicing and from 2000 on only Bonds was juicing Bonds still wins but it's not a blowout.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I think Bonds was better and personally I liked him better for whatever reason (there was less media then so I didn't know or care if Bonds was not friendly to some people, plus Griffey was in the AL) but they were actually contemporaries in their prime. Those lifetime numbers include the ridiculous numbers Bonds put up between ages 35 and 40 while Griffey at that time in his career was declining due to nagging injuries (which leads me to believe he might not have been juicing). So if you make the assumption that before 2000 either both or neither Bonds and Griffey were juicing and from 2000 on only Bonds was juicing Bonds still wins but it's not a blowout.

Well it's believed by many that Griffey's injuries were due to his lack of commitment outside of games, as it's well noted that he often neglected the weight room and team stretching.

Regarding his lack of stretching, he had the quote:
"Why should I stretch? Does a cheetah stretch before it chases its prey?"
Ken Griffey, Jr Quotes

Possibly came back to bite him in the ass with all those lower body injuries in his 30s.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Atta boy Barry. I still hate your guts and think you should be in the Hall of Fame.

I think he should be in too. Josh Ravin got nailed for PEDs, was he lighting the world on fire? No, you have to be a good baseball player with or without roids.

 

[Cedrique]

Well it's believed by many that Griffey's injuries were due to his lack of commitment outside of games, as it's well noted that he often neglected the weight room and team stretching.

Regarding his lack of stretching, he had the quote:
"Why should I stretch? Does a cheetah stretch before it chases its prey?"
Ken Griffey, Jr Quotes

Possibly came back to bite him in the ass with all those lower body injuries in his 30s.

Yeah, I've just always heard that a lot of those banned substances allow you to recover from injuries quicker. So if you're saying he might have been taking the substance but it didn't work for him because he was too lazy to follow through with the workout part of it I guess that's possible. I know I hate stretching and weightlifting.

 

[HammerDown]

He should have played for the Red Sox where the Boston media would have glorified his arrogant ass and protected him against cheating allegations.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I think Bonds was better and personally I liked him better for whatever reason (there was less media then so I didn't know or care if Bonds was not friendly to some people, plus Griffey was in the AL) but they were actually contemporaries in their prime. Those lifetime numbers include the ridiculous numbers Bonds put up between ages 35 and 40 while Griffey at that time in his career was declining due to nagging injuries (which leads me to believe he might not have been juicing). So if you make the assumption that before 2000 either both or neither Bonds and Griffey were juicing and from 2000 on only Bonds was juicing Bonds still wins but it's not a blowout.

I'm not one that really likes to play the "what if what did happen didn't" game, and I wouldn't assume that Griffey Jr wasn't juicing his entire career, but we can still take a look.

First, Bonds age 35 season was not a ridiculous year by his standards, that started in his age 36 season. So, I'll compare Bonds' and Griffey Jr's careers through their age 35 seasons.

Through age 35 Slash
KG- .293/.377/.561/.938/144
BB - .289./412/.567/.979/165

Through age 35 SB/CS/SB%
KG - 178/67/72.7%
BB - 471/135/77.7%

Through age 35 Hardware
KG - AS-12 / GG-10 / SS-7 / MVP-1
BB - AS-9 / GG-10 / SS-8 / MVP-3

Not the slam dunk it was, but still fairly lopsided.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

He should have played for the Red Sox where the Boston media would have glorified his arrogant ass and protected him against cheating allegations.

 

[Wamu]

I wonder if BB has any regrets about his former personal trainer doing time for him? I doubt it.

 

[Omar 382]

Bonds or Ruth?

 

[Cedrique]

Bonds or Ruth?

Come on man. You know he was talking about Bonds. Ruth didn't have a personal trainer--he didn't need one. He was playing against factory workers and door to door salesmen and shit.

Think before you post..........

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Bonds always had a huge chip on his shoulder and really hated the media and it spilled out when things didn't go well for him. Do I like that? Hell no, I disliked the guy immensely for his attitude. But it was who he was. He admits now that he could have done better and kudos to him for that.
Now as for the PED usage and all that, I think it is hypocritical in the extreme for the media, the fans or anyone else to attack the way we all do. I don't like the steroid use nor condone it but it happened and still happens and we all celebrated a lot of shit when we knew something was wrong, did we not? Everyone was filling ballparks when McGuire and Sosa were hitting all those bombs and all we saw was smiles and cheers. Meanwhile, there was still a fucking asterisk beside Roger Maris' name in the record book. Pretty sad when you really think about it and I think Barry saw that and just made a decision to go that route (although I think he was great enough without them).
As for the other debate in this thread, I'm a huge Griffey fan and love the guy but Bonds was definitely the best player of the last half century, imo. I just wish the steroid use never happened so we could have seen it naturally. He was as feared a hitter as we may ever see in our lifetime. I don't like the guy but I give him his due props.

 

[Villain]

I never had any personal hate for Bonds. I hate him for being a part of the Pirates, Giants, and Marlins' organizations, but I always was too amazed at his production to have any personal hate.

I hate him for being on the Giants and for generally being an asshole. Glad to see he's working on one of those things.