Barner, Arroyo, Charbonnet, and Horton in Kubiak's 2025 Offense

[PolarVortex]

Klint Kubiak claims to be bringing a more diversified offense to Seattle with more Tight End pass targets and more running plays. I guess we will see. I figure the Hawks will still have 530+ pass attempts.

If Arroyo stays healthy and has a good camp, does anyone out there think he could pass Barner and Fant for most targets for a tight end on the team? I liked what I saw, at times, in Barner last year but I didn't pay much attention to his blocking efficiency. Fant seems to get about 60 targets a year and he is still young. I don't see much changing there unless Arroyo proves he is a better option.

Charbonnet seemed to show the growth last year that could elevate him to be among the top 6-8 receiving RBs in the league. Is he ready to take over from Walker as #1 on the RB depth chart? Walker can't seem to stay on the field for any significant length of time. Meanwhile, Charbonnet has played in 33 of his first 34 NFL games.

Can Horton be counted on to be the third WR in the depth chart? He doesn't have much competition. MVS hasn't been targeted much in recent years and Bobo - who knows. Geno seemed reluctant to throw to him but Darnold might feel differently. Bobo seems to be a gutty player and I don't think he has been given a fair chance in the offense his first two years. But, there are only so many pass targets to spread around.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Arroyo is technically the worst blocker on the team (doesn't mean he can't learn). I would not be surprised at all if Seattle uses Arroyo as the x receiver while Fant/Barner are kept in to block or act as the traditional Y.

I loved Arroyo because he has the highest ceiling out of any TE in this draft... his ACL in 22, and then the knee issue, and just lack of College play (really only 1 year) is what dropped him to the 2nd.

As for Fant, I've always felt he was under utilized in Seattle's scheme. Fant is still young and technically a nightmare matchup. I would expect a TON of double tight end looks this year. Line Fant up as the Y and then put Arroyo as the X and it should in theory melt defenses that don't have good off ball linebacker or safety play. Cornerbacks can't match up with either of them.

I was NOT for getting rid of Fant this year, and I hope Seattle doesn't. It'll help Barner along and I would not be surprised if Kubiak works out if Fant is resigned.

 

[flyerhawk]

If the OL doesn't significantly improve it won't that much because the TEs will be forced to stay in a block which limits their downfield effectiveness.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

If the OL doesn't significantly improve it won't that much because the TEs will be forced to stay in a block which limits their downfield effectiveness.

True, but I think they may actually almost move Arroyo to a wide receiver type package... I could see him being a lot like Jimmy Graham (in New Orleans). He has a willingness to learn how to block, but he's a better threat as almost a slot receiver. DBs and safeties wont match up well against him (Well Emmanwori would but oh hey we have that guy on our roster).

I think the OL will be okay. Cross/Zabel should be fine, and now that we've ditched Grubb's dumbass system we can start Haynes who is a perfect fit for what Kubiak wants to do. Our RB depth for the first time in years also looks good. Walker will of course be injured at some point, but even if Charbs goes down I think Martinez/McIntosh work perfectly fine.

You got a top 10 pick at LT, a top 20 pick at LG (or C), two earlier 3rd rounders.. like wtf? Coaches need to make that work.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The OL should show improvement between adding talent, youngsters with added experience, and a scheme that is more OL friendly. Think Arroyo is the move TE in the offense. As far as blocking, Arroyo like most rookie TE's needs to work on blocking but he was a willing blocker in college which is a good sign that with coaching he can improve. Horton will at some point over take MVS as the X WR this season I would expect. With Walker in his final year of his contract Martinez was drafted on the cheap as insurance and love watching him run.
I feel Kubiak is the key here. He's got the experience but hasn't really had the standout season on his resume. So this is his chance. I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

The OL should show improvement between adding talent, youngsters with added experience, and a scheme that is more OL friendly. Think Arroyo is the move TE in the offense. As far as blocking, Arroyo like most rookie TE's needs to work on blocking but he was a willing blocker in college which is a good sign that with coaching he can improve. Horton will at some point over take MVS as the X WR this season I would expect. With Walker in his final year of his contract Martinez was drafted on the cheap as insurance and love watching him run.
I feel Kubiak is the key here. He's got the experience but hasn't really had the standout season on his resume. So this is his chance. I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

Arroyo mentioned that in the press conference on blocking. "You just have to be willing to block" to effectively be good at it. And he is willing so he can learn.

Cooper Kupp is one of the better WR blockers because he'll consistently agree to do it and not complain lol. I mean you could line him up against Myles Garrett and he'd be like, "Sure!" It'd end horribly, but he'd do it lol.

Still can't believe Horton fell as far as he did. I know the injury but he ran a 4.4 indicating his knee is fine (for now). Also, I am absolutely thrilled we don't have to watch Dee Williams return punts anymore, and Horton should have that job (3 TDs on like 25 touches in College). At a minimum is a 5th worth it for a good punt returner? After watching Williams last year, yes. And if the goal is to have a top 10 D (which I believe is Mike's goal - that's what he was brought in for) then we'll be returning more punts.

 

[Screamin12th]

Yeah Arroyo will be used as a big miss match WR Type in our packages as a TE which the Hawks need and dont have. I felt like this was why he was drafted. A receiving threat Big body athletic TE who many had as the 3rd best TE in this draft and top 2 receiving TE. As for who gets what and so forth Fant hasnt proven jack shit when he had his chances and rarely does he flash. I would rather see Barner get the playing time because he is just as good a blocker and when he gets the ball in his hands it just feels different.

 

[JMR]

I have mild expectations of Arroyo as a rookie. I suspect at best he gets the 2nd most targets of the TE group, and that's saying he is probably no better than the 5th overall option in the passing game.

 

[JMR]

I'm really hoping Charbs ends up getting the RB1 job. He was better than Walker last year and seems more durable. Charbs won't give you the same home run hitting ability, but he's more apt to take the 3 or 4 yards that's there and not risk as many negative plays. That said, I am expecting to get better play from Walker with this being a contract year for him. Good problem to have I think.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I'm really hoping Charbs ends up getting the RB1 job. He was better than Walker last year and seems more durable. Charbs won't give you the same home run hitting ability, but he's more apt to take the 3 or 4 yards that's there and not risk as many negative plays. That said, I am expecting to get better play from Walker with this being a contract year for him. Good problem to have I think.

I would imagine they will fairly split. But now since we're running a wide zone scheme (and have decent personnel to do it, Haynes/Zabel/Cross anyway) Walker may be more effective. Last year Grubb's idea of running was just jamming everyone with HB Dives and I formation, which is not Walker's strength at all. Walker is better in space, which Seattle seemed to have zero grasp of last year.

 

[JMR]

I would imagine they will fairly split. But now since we're running a wide zone scheme (and have decent personnel to do it, Haynes/Zabel/Cross anyway) Walker may be more effective. Last year Grubb's idea of running was just jamming everyone with HB Dives and I formation, which is not Walker's strength at all. Walker is better in space, which Seattle seemed to have zero grasp of last year.

Yeah, I guess we'll see. Walker has declined each season after rookie. Maybe that's due to outside forces, maybe not. At least for me, at this point the burden of proof is on him to show me he's more like what we saw in 2022 than the lesser versions since.

 

[MrS]

dont be surprised if walker is not on the team come the season opener

 

[Screamin12th]

if you got better blocking from the Oline to help the RB stay clean in the backfield who is then better Carbs or Walker? It would be Walker. Carbs is better built for getting 2 yards when there is none to be gained but Walker is unmatched when he has a hole to run through.

 

[JMR]

dont be surprised if walker is not on the team come the season opener

Yeah, definitely still possible. Figured there would be a slightly greater chance of it happening during or leading up to the draft, but some team out there might sustain a RB injury and start making some calls.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Only teams I could really see trading for Walker would be:

Denver or Dallas (they both just need RBs lol), and MAYBE San Angeles. They signed Harris, but Harris is not a 300+ workload kind of RB IMO. Ideally you'd split carries between Harris/Walker.

San Angeles has what appears to be a good OL coming up so Walker could really find a place there.

Problem with all of it is, we're going to get fuck all if we trade Walker (prob. like a 5th at best) which sucks... but if the coaches believe in Martinez/McIntosh, I don't think you can carry 4 RBs on this roster. If the coaches want to let Martinez/McIntosh develop a bit more and are not ready to 'start' them, I'd just keep Walker. Is a 5th rounder worth having us not having any serviceable runningback like it was towards the end of Pete's time? Ugh... that was so maddening.

If it's a 3rd rounder? Sure, ship him.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Walker trade value is low so IMO he's more valuable on the roster then whatever the Seahawks could get in a trade. So I expect him on the roster when the season begins. Probably won't be resigned.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Walker trade value is low so IMO he's more valuable on the roster then whatever the Seahawks could get in a trade. So I expect him on the roster when the season begins. Probably won't be resigned.

Lot will depend on how camp goes.

Keeping 3 QBs, 4 RBs, 3 TEs, 1 on the active roster, you're starting to run out of roster for the rest of the team lol. It would suck to put Martinez or McIntosh on the PS.. but it could very easily be that's what happens. Because frankly I expect Horton to make the active roster and Cabeldue just for depth.

If Walker does get traded (and I agree it will be for low value) it'll be because Martinez/McIntosh just looked better than Walker. That's a BOLD ass statement if the coaches go there (rookie RB in the 7th and another 7th if I recall that only played a few games last year). Especially with an all new Wide ZBS scheme that SHOULD in theory help Walker.

I think either Martinez or McIntosh get put on the PS and Seattle runs with Walker/Charb for 2025. Seattle's offensive style is also going to be heavily dependent on the run game and Darnold is a slow release and needs playaction. Now is not the time to trade RBs with talent like Walker.

If Walker has a DECENT season, with the talent he has, ya may even get a 5th or 6th compensatory in 2027... so what's the point?

 

[MrS]

Walker is another guy with huge potential that can't live up to it because he cannot stay healthy
If any of the RBs have to get cut he is the one to go.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

dont be surprised if walker is not on the team come the season opener

He'll be on the team. Kids a stud if the o-line rounds out to an average line this year.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I can see why there are rumors of trading Walker.. because frankly McIntosh is going to waivers and if not claimed the PS (which would be great).

IMO Martinez is just flat out better than McIntosh. It's still quite amazing that Martinez fell to us in the 7th - frankly he should've gone in the 4th/5th but we can thank the insanely deep RB class for that. That said, I really do like McIntosh. But end of day you'd have Walker, Charbs, Martinez and Outz on the roster. Outz is obviously a FB which Kubiak specifically wants to run, but he also played TE... so he's got some threat there (blocking anyway) and last year we carried 4 TEs. You can't carry 5 RBs... lol.

So yah, if the coaches really fall in love with McIntosh, that might be the reason to move from Walker. That said, this RB class was insanely deep, so if we put McIntosh on waivers I can't imagine anyone will claim him. And then when Walker (sigh) gets injured, you bring him in and let Walker go in 2026.

We all talked pre-draft, it sucks to lose a 2nd rounder to free agency, but nobody was giving us anything more than maybe a 5th for him, so whatever. Hopefully Charbs stays healthy. If (and when) Walker gets injured, Martinez and Charbs can easily carry the run game - especially if the ZBS works out and Ouzt doesn't bust as a FB lead blocker (which is literally what he was drafted for).