B1G Thread

[fredsdeadfriend]

RIP gopher season


I've been a pitino defender, I don't think changing coaches is answer every 3 years, but I've seen enough of Pitino

So typical of Gopher fans to give up on a season just over half way through the conf season.

We only started out the season playing 7 ranked teams in our first 8 games and still pulled off 3 wins vs Top 8 NET rankings ranked teams.

Of our losses, 3 were ROAD games vs Top 8 ranked teams and the 4th was a ROAD game loss to #17 ranked Wisconsin.

Now after a couple road losses, we go into our last 8 games with only TWO of the games being vs ranked teams, and BOTH are home games, so both are possible chances to add to our list of signature wins. The other 6 games include 3 home games vs teams in the cellar of the Conf standings, and a road game vs 2nd to last place PSU. There is a very realistic chance we can win all 4 of these games. That would get us to 10 conf wins. I haven't mentioned the 2 road games, as we have a pretty bad road game record, but neither team is much better than Rutgers, so neither game should be penned in as losses just yet. I'd say the Indiana game will be the tougher of the two, but some of our biggest conf wins over the years have come against IU, and yes, we lost at home to Maryland, so that rarely bodes well for the 2nd game in their home gym, but there is the revenge factor, and Maryland isn't exactly having a stellar season this year, so even with our trouble winning on the road, there is not law that says we have to lose those games. So even if we lose both of those road games, finishing out 6-2 could move us up into range to make the NCAA tourney field, or at least close enough that a win or two in the Conf tourney would get us in. Now granted I'm assuming a home win vs the Illini, which will be a tough win for sure, but I'm also assuming losses to both Maryland and the Hoosiers on the road. I'm NOT making a prediction, just suggesting that finishing out 6-2 is not an unrealistic scenario, and hence, a good reason not to give up hope.

Now it's also possible they finish out 2-6, as all our remaining games, cept Nebraska, are against teams ranked among the Top 100 of the NET rankings, meaning none of them should be taken for granted. But that also means if we do finish out 6-2, that would include 1 or 2 wins vs Top 25 ranked teams, and 5 wins vs Top 100 ranked teams, with neither of the 2 losses being considered bad losses.

Only NW and Nebraska are ranked outside of the Top 50, btw. Not sure if the Selection Committee gives credit for Top 50 wins or not, but SLU is ranked #52, so there is a chance they could end up in the Top 50? That would give the Gophers 4 Top 50 NET wins, with 6-7 more possible in the regular season.

 

[PnkPanther]

So typical of Gopher fans to give up on a season just over half way through the conf season.

We only started out the season playing 7 ranked teams in our first 8 games and still pulled off 3 wins vs Top 8 NET rankings ranked teams.

Of our losses, 3 were ROAD games vs Top 8 ranked teams and the 4th was a ROAD game loss to #17 ranked Wisconsin.

Now after a couple road losses, we go into our last 8 games with only TWO of the games being vs ranked teams, and BOTH are home games, so both are possible chances to add to our list of signature wins. The other 6 games include 3 home games vs teams in the cellar of the Conf standings, and a road game vs 2nd to last place PSU. There is a very realistic chance we can win all 4 of these games. That would get us to 10 conf wins. I haven't mentioned the 2 road games, as we have a pretty bad road game record, but neither team is much better than Rutgers, so neither game should be penned in as losses just yet. I'd say the Indiana game will be the tougher of the two, but some of our biggest conf wins over the years have come against IU, and yes, we lost at home to Maryland, so that rarely bodes well for the 2nd game in their home gym, but there is the revenge factor, and Maryland isn't exactly having a stellar season this year, so even with our trouble winning on the road, there is not law that says we have to lose those games. So even if we lose both of those road games, finishing out 6-2 could move us up into range to make the NCAA tourney field, or at least close enough that a win or two in the Conf tourney would get us in. Now granted I'm assuming a home win vs the Illini, which will be a tough win for sure, but I'm also assuming losses to both Maryland and the Hoosiers on the road. I'm NOT making a prediction, just suggesting that finishing out 6-2 is not an unrealistic scenario, and hence, a good reason not to give up hope.

Now it's also possible they finish out 2-6, as all our remaining games, cept Nebraska, are against teams ranked among the Top 100 of the NET rankings, meaning none of them should be taken for granted. But that also means if we do finish out 6-2, that would include 1 or 2 wins vs Top 25 ranked teams, and 5 wins vs Top 100 ranked teams, with neither of the 2 losses being considered bad losses.

Only NW and Nebraska are ranked outside of the Top 50, btw. Not sure if the Selection Committee gives credit for Top 50 wins or not, but SLU is ranked #52, so there is a chance they could end up in the Top 50? That would give the Gophers 4 Top 50 NET wins, with 6-7 more possible in the regular season.

again, this is year 8 of Pitino. If you think I'm overreacting to one stretch......

I think we have decent chance to squeeze back into tournament, but then what?

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

again, this is year 8 of Pitino. If you think I'm overreacting to one stretch......

I think we have decent chance to squeeze back into tournament, but then what?

Well, I'm not saying Pitino is the best coach out there. Just saying The B1G conference is becoming increasingly competitive and starting over with a new coach could result in our becoming a cellar dweller. Who are the teams in the Top 25 right now? Illinois, OSU, Iowa, Purdue and Rutgers, with PSU on the cusp of the Top 25? NONE of those programs are long time basically regulars in the Top 25. Mich and UW are, and OSU could try to argue they are, but from my memory OSU is pretty inconsistent. MSU was, and where are they now? They are the closest B1G team out there to joining Nebraska outside of The Top 100 of the NET rankings. Maryland, a pretty regular bb power is ranked only #40, so at risk of not garnering an invite to the Big Dance, and IU, a long time bb power is only ranked #47 in the NET rankings.

All I am saying is Minnesota seems rarely to be out of reach of making the tourney, most of the time they are in the mix, and with some better luck personnel wise, they could have had a couple really good seasons. This year could still end up as a pretty good season. Since covid hit last March, I took over 9 months off from sports basically, so I am pretty uneducated regarding who the team's newcomers are, who is leaving soon, who the incoming recruits are, so maybe we are soon going to end up in the cellar? And if that happens, then sure, get rid of Pitino. But just from what I know of the past 6-7 seasons, my guess is he'll figure something out and keep us competitive in the most competitive conference in the nation, which is nothing to sneeze at. I won't flip out and lose my sh1t if Pitino gets the axe, but I will say told you so if the U ends up hiring some loser who sets our progress back several years like so many of our past firings/hew hires have done, not only in mens bb but overall. How long and how many new coaches did it take for Gopher fb to recover from the Mason firing? I didn't lose my shit when he was fired, I agreed with his firing, 99%, and am ok with how long it took to finally land a quality replacement. But just saying, if we let Pitino go, the same thing could happen, it could take a decade and 2-3 new coaches before we get back to where we left off and start seeing improved results? Sometimes that is what needs to be done, as was the case with the football program. But sometimes a coach just needs more time. I can think of a couple examples of coaches who took their time to deliver. I'd prefer to look them up first to make sure they are good examples, but without doing that, Warmath might fit that description, our last Wrestling coach might, the Missouri fb coach that was there when they moved to the SEC might?

Just a lot of people still see Minnesota as a place where it's too hard to win at bb or fb. Our recruiting base is too small. Can't depend on our neighbors as both North and South Dakota are sparsely populated states that have proven they can keep their own fb players at NDSU and their own bb players in SD. Iowa is not an easy place to recruit with both Iowa and ISU being legit P5 schools and Wisconsin has better luck taking our players than vice versa. And extending beyond the 5 state region is costly and doesn't really help us. So as much as I like Minnesota, most outside of Minnesota do not see the appeal to coming here. So it might not be easy to replace Pitino? That is all that I am saying.

Has he not shown any improvement over the years? He's still relatively young? I'm being sincere here, I'm not a bb expert. Is there no hope for him to bring together a good group of players that can get us back into the 2nd weekend of the Big Dance and maybe beyond?

I mean, think about it. The B1G conf has, for maybe the first time in a long time, 4 teams ranked among the Top 8 in the country, we could end up with 2 #1 seeds and 2 more #2 seeds in the NCAA tourney come tourney time, and we'll have wins against 3 of those 4, for sure, with a home game vs the Illini upcoming giving us a chance to have a win against each of those 4 Top 8 rated teams in the country. Who is to say that with a little luck on our side, that we couldn't make the Final Four THIS YEAR? I'm not predicting that, just saying it's not a totally unreasonable possibility. Sure, we could finish out 2-6 and not even get an invite to the NIT, just the same?


But until Minnesota does something significant in fb/bb without cheating, to prove a coach can win here, no big time coaches who can almost guarantee success will ever consider coming here. Fleck was no guarantee, he's still not in fact. If Fleck fails, we may never be able to land that super star coach on the fb side. Right now, Pitino failing will not hurt us the same way Fleck failing would. Everyone acknowledges our taking Pitino was a long shot, and we've given him a lot of years, so very few will look down upon us if we dump him, but we still haven't proven Minnesota is a place where a great coach can win yet.

For now, I think we should just sit back and wait and see how Pitino handles the much easier schedule we have to finish off the season. Not full of cupcakes or creampuffs, but at least not as tough as our first 8 games were. If he can't pull off 5 wins regular season and 1 or 2 in the conf tourney to get us into the Big Dance, then maybe it will be time to part ways? It's still a covid affected season, so not sure how that will affect the situation?

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Btw, you all maybe should not listen to me, as apparently, according to some nutjob over in the politics forums, I died and am a fake person who stole fredsdeadfriend's persona? lol

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

again, this is year 8 of Pitino. If you think I'm overreacting to one stretch......

I think we have decent chance to squeeze back into tournament, but then what?

I haven't paid a lot of attention to cbb for the last 9-10 months, but what I can see right now is that the B1G could be having a banner season. The Gopher roster only has 3 Seniors that I can tell, one whom barely contributes, a 2nd that contributes only a few points per game, and none of the seniors average in double figures. 5 of the Top 6 scorers return next season, but what about the Illini and Mich, OSU and Iowa and Wisc? Same for Purdue, Rutgers and PSU, how many Seniors or star players are they going to lose? I could look it up myself, but just hoping you or someone else might already know. I guess I am suggesting that the Gophers could end up having a nice little tourney run this season maybe, but next year might be more obvious?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Well, I'm not saying Pitino is the best coach out there. Just saying The B1G conference is becoming increasingly competitive and starting over with a new coach could result in our becoming a cellar dweller. Who are the teams in the Top 25 right now? Illinois, OSU, Iowa, Purdue and Rutgers, with PSU on the cusp of the Top 25? NONE of those programs are long time basically regulars in the Top 25. Mich and UW are, and OSU could try to argue they are, but from my memory OSU is pretty inconsistent. MSU was, and where are they now? They are the closest B1G team out there to joining Nebraska outside of The Top 100 of the NET rankings. Maryland, a pretty regular bb power is ranked only #40, so at risk of not garnering an invite to the Big Dance, and IU, a long time bb power is only ranked #47 in the NET rankings.

All I am saying is Minnesota seems rarely to be out of reach of making the tourney, most of the time they are in the mix, and with some better luck personnel wise, they could have had a couple really good seasons. This year could still end up as a pretty good season. Since covid hit last March, I took over 9 months off from sports basically, so I am pretty uneducated regarding who the team's newcomers are, who is leaving soon, who the incoming recruits are, so maybe we are soon going to end up in the cellar? And if that happens, then sure, get rid of Pitino. But just from what I know of the past 6-7 seasons, my guess is he'll figure something out and keep us competitive in the most competitive conference in the nation, which is nothing to sneeze at. I won't flip out and lose my sh1t if Pitino gets the axe, but I will say told you so if the U ends up hiring some loser who sets our progress back several years like so many of our past firings/hew hires have done, not only in mens bb but overall. How long and how many new coaches did it take for Gopher fb to recover from the Mason firing? I didn't lose my shit when he was fired, I agreed with his firing, 99%, and am ok with how long it took to finally land a quality replacement. But just saying, if we let Pitino go, the same thing could happen, it could take a decade and 2-3 new coaches before we get back to where we left off and start seeing improved results? Sometimes that is what needs to be done, as was the case with the football program. But sometimes a coach just needs more time. I can think of a couple examples of coaches who took their time to deliver. I'd prefer to look them up first to make sure they are good examples, but without doing that, Warmath might fit that description, our last Wrestling coach might, the Missouri fb coach that was there when they moved to the SEC might?

Just a lot of people still see Minnesota as a place where it's too hard to win at bb or fb. Our recruiting base is too small. Can't depend on our neighbors as both North and South Dakota are sparsely populated states that have proven they can keep their own fb players at NDSU and their own bb players in SD. Iowa is not an easy place to recruit with both Iowa and ISU being legit P5 schools and Wisconsin has better luck taking our players than vice versa. And extending beyond the 5 state region is costly and doesn't really help us. So as much as I like Minnesota, most outside of Minnesota do not see the appeal to coming here. So it might not be easy to replace Pitino? That is all that I am saying.

Has he not shown any improvement over the years? He's still relatively young? I'm being sincere here, I'm not a bb expert. Is there no hope for him to bring together a good group of players that can get us back into the 2nd weekend of the Big Dance and maybe beyond?

I mean, think about it. The B1G conf has, for maybe the first time in a long time, 4 teams ranked among the Top 8 in the country, we could end up with 2 #1 seeds and 2 more #2 seeds in the NCAA tourney come tourney time, and we'll have wins against 3 of those 4, for sure, with a home game vs the Illini upcoming giving us a chance to have a win against each of those 4 Top 8 rated teams in the country. Who is to say that with a little luck on our side, that we couldn't make the Final Four THIS YEAR? I'm not predicting that, just saying it's not a totally unreasonable possibility. Sure, we could finish out 2-6 and not even get an invite to the NIT, just the same?


But until Minnesota does something significant in fb/bb without cheating, to prove a coach can win here, no big time coaches who can almost guarantee success will ever consider coming here. Fleck was no guarantee, he's still not in fact. If Fleck fails, we may never be able to land that super star coach on the fb side. Right now, Pitino failing will not hurt us the same way Fleck failing would. Everyone acknowledges our taking Pitino was a long shot, and we've given him a lot of years, so very few will look down upon us if we dump him, but we still haven't proven Minnesota is a place where a great coach can win yet.

For now, I think we should just sit back and wait and see how Pitino handles the much easier schedule we have to finish off the season. Not full of cupcakes or creampuffs, but at least not as tough as our first 8 games were. If he can't pull off 5 wins regular season and 1 or 2 in the conf tourney to get us into the Big Dance, then maybe it will be time to part ways? It's still a covid affected season, so not sure how that will affect the situation?

Huh?

All time Big ten titles.

OSU 20
MSU 16
Wisky 19

Since 2002

(I'm cheating MSU some)

Osu 5
Wisky 5
MSU 6


Now don't get me wrong MSU is the best of the BIG from the last 25 years and OSU has taken some time to get back to this spot but they've generally fielded a tourney caliber team at minimum

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Huh?

All time Big ten titles.

OSU 20
MSU 16
Wisky 19

Since 2002

(I'm cheating MSU some)

Osu 5
Wisky 5
MSU 6


Now don't get me wrong MSU is the best of the BIG from the last 25 years and OSU has taken some time to get back to this spot but they've generally fielded a tourney caliber team at minimum

Dude, I mean no offense, lol. I am or was not trying to talk about teams historically, but more recently. OSU has surely outshined my Gophers recently, but I just don't think they've been as consistent as MSU or UW. Looking exclusively at Conf titles doesn't say much at all about consistency. I bet both MSU and UW have far more Top 4 conf finishes than does OSU since 2002.

But my focus was how different this year is from the past. MSU 2nd to last in the conference? When was the last time that ever happened? BOTH Rutgers and PSU ranked in the Top 25 at the same time? When has that ever happened before? Even Illinois and Iowa both being ranked in the Top 10 at the same time, when has that last happened?

And UMn, with THREE wins vs Top 10 ranked teams, ranked 11th best among B1G teams in the NET rankings?


And when was the last time IU, MSU and Maryland, ALL THREE of them, missed the NCAA tourney in the same season? None of those 3 teams are among the Top 8 in the B1G this season.



Again, never meant to dis OSU, they've done far better than my Gophers in the 21st Century, but am I wrong, about UW and MSU both being more consistent the last 20 or so years?

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Ok, anyone not able to understand how the Gophers could go 0-7 on the road so far this season?


Well, ALL SEVEN of those road games are vs Top 50 ranked teams in the NET rankings, 6 of the 7 are all ranked in the Top 30.

Of the only 3 B1G teams NOT ranked in the Top 50 of the NET rankings that the Gophers play, the Gophers only play 3 home games vs those 3 teams. Talk about setting the Gophers up to go 0-9 on the road. All 9 of their road games are vs Teams ranked among the Top 50 of the NET rankings.

 

[Duckboy33]

KenPom ratings through 2/14:

1. Michigan (3rd nationally)
2. Iowa (4th nationally)
3. Illinois (5th nationally)
4. Ohio State (7th nationally)
5. Wisconsin (13th nationally)
6. Purdue (22nd nationally)
7. Rutgers (26th nationally)
8. Indiana (29th nationally)
9. Maryland (35th nationally)
10. Penn State (37th nationally)
11. Minnesota (40th nationally)
12. Michigan State (69th nationally)
13. Northwestern (72nd nationally)
14. Nebraska (118th nationally)

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

KenPom ratings through 2/14:

1. Michigan (3rd nationally)
2. Iowa (4th nationally)
3. Illinois (5th nationally)
4. Ohio State (7th nationally)
5. Wisconsin (13th nationally)
6. Purdue (22nd nationally)
7. Rutgers (26th nationally)
8. Indiana (29th nationally)
9. Maryland (35th nationally)
10. Penn State (37th nationally)
11. Minnesota (40th nationally)
12. Michigan State (69th nationally)
13. Northwestern (72nd nationally)
14. Nebraska (118th nationally)

Those KenPom ratings have The B1G Conf looking even stronger than the NET rankings have them rated. Hopefully the Selection Committee takes the Ken Pom Ratings into account?

 

[Wamu]

Btw, you all maybe should not listen to me, as apparently, according to some nutjob over in the politics forums, I died and am a fake person who stole fredsdeadfriend's persona? lol

"you all maybe should not listen to me"


No problem. Started doing that during the 2019 CFB season when you said Fleck will stay at Minnesota forever.

 

[Duckboy33]

Those KenPom ratings have The B1G Conf looking even stronger than the NET rankings have them rated. Hopefully the Selection Committee takes the Ken Pom Ratings into account?

IMO the NET ranking more accurately reflects a team's resume and KenPom is better at gauging the strength of a team.

 

[PnkPanther]

Ok, anyone not able to understand how the Gophers could go 0-7 on the road so far this season?


Well, ALL SEVEN of those road games are vs Top 50 ranked teams in the NET rankings, 6 of the 7 are all ranked in the Top 30.

Of the only 3 B1G teams NOT ranked in the Top 50 of the NET rankings that the Gophers play, the Gophers only play 3 home games vs those 3 teams. Talk about setting the Gophers up to go 0-9 on the road. All 9 of their road games are vs Teams ranked among the Top 50 of the NET rankings.

sure, but a good team would still be able to get one of those wins, and quite few games the Gophers got ran off court in 2nd half.

They're an inconsistent team and it's year 8 of Pitino.

I've been a Pitino backer for years but after 8 years we still team with poorly built roster, still relying on transfers, and horrendous shooting

 

[PnkPanther]

"you all maybe should not listen to me"


No problem. Started doing that during the 2019 CFB season when you said Fleck will stay at Minnesota forever.

i mean i tune the guy out too as MN fan

I wouldn't put on Fleck being at MN forever like next alvarez or kirk ferentz in B1G, but I don't think he'll jump ship at the first SEC job as others seem to always indicate.

Right job, right offer, he'd leave, but I do think he likes it at MN

 

[Wamu]

i mean i tune the guy out too as MN fan

I wouldn't put on Fleck being at MN forever like next alvarez or kirk ferentz in B1G, but I don't think he'll jump ship at the first SEC job as others seem to always indicate.

Right job, right offer, he'd leave, but I do think he likes it at MN

Haven't had many back and forths with that fella. But saying Fleck will stay at Minnesota forever is some top notch homerism.

 

[PnkPanther]

Haven't had many back and forths with that fella. But saying Fleck will stay at Minnesota forever is some top notch homerism.

I think it's possible but it's not a hill I'd die in.

I do think some underrate the MN job as a whole, but that's a different story

I'm familiar with freds work....

 

[Duckboy33]

I think it's possible but it's not a hill I'd die in.

I do think some underrate the MN job as a whole, but that's a different story

I'm familiar with freds work....

I don't think Fleck is going to leave Minnesota unless it's for a tier 1 college football job or the NFL. The people that thought he was going to leave Minnesota for Tennessee were being ridiculous.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

I don't think Fleck is going to leave Minnesota unless it's for a tier 1 college football job or the NFL. The people that thought he was going to leave Minnesota for Tennessee were being ridiculous.

Fleck kind of had a rough year similar to Harbaugh so his stock isn't as scorching atm.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

"you all maybe should not listen to me"


No problem. Started doing that during the 2019 CFB season when you said Fleck will stay at Minnesota forever.

I NEVER said he WOULD, for sure, stay "forever", lol. But of course, you feel you must exaggerate, otherwise it's too hard for your little brain to be able to construct a viable argument.

What I remember saying was simply that he COULD stay for a very long time, maybe even his whole career? Why? Because Minnesota has a lot to offer, enough to keep someone like Fleck around for a long time.
Is Minnesota Alabama? No. But neither is Ohio St, lol. But you seem to act like Minnesota is no better than say a Cincinnati, a program that can't keep a quality coach to save their lives. Minnesota is far superior to Cincinnati. UMn is superior to most of The B1G Conf, which makes them superior to most in the country, UMn's superior to many in the SEC even, not just as a football program, but also as a school, as a whole, as a fan base, and as a state. And one of UMn's top qualities is it's potential. As a job opportunity, it actually can compare favorably to jobs like OSU or Bama or Clemson, because those places have so much higher expectations, success is expected, so there is no room to succeed, only room to fail. At Minnesota, the sky is the limit, and not winning a conf title won't be seen automatically as a failure. If Fleck DOES get UMn to a Conf Title, he'll be seen as a sort of savior or a fb god of sorts.

 

[Wamu]

I NEVER said he WOULD, for sure, stay "forever", lol. But of course, you feel you must exaggerate, otherwise it's too hard for your little brain to be able to construct a viable argument.

What I remember saying was simply that he COULD stay for a very long time, maybe even his whole career? Why? Because Minnesota has a lot to offer, enough to keep someone like Fleck around for a long time.
Is Minnesota Alabama? No. But neither is Ohio St, lol. But you seem to act like Minnesota is no better than say a Cincinnati, a program that can't keep a quality coach to save their lives. Minnesota is far superior to Cincinnati. UMn is superior to most of The B1G Conf, which makes them superior to most in the country, UMn's superior to many in the SEC even, not just as a football program, but also as a school, as a whole, as a fan base, and as a state. And one of UMn's top qualities is it's potential. As a job opportunity, it actually can compare favorably to jobs like OSU or Bama or Clemson, because those places have so much higher expectations, success is expected, so there is no room to succeed, only room to fail. At Minnesota, the sky is the limit, and not winning a conf title won't be seen automatically as a failure. If Fleck DOES get UMn to a Conf Title, he'll be seen as a sort of savior or a fb god of sorts.

I didn't exaggerate anything. During the 2019 season you went full 100% homer. It's hilarious you tried to compare Minnesota to Bama though. That right there proves how overly homeristic you really are.

Your attempt to take a shot at Ohio State failed in great fashion. But it was funny. They have nothing to do with you saying Fleck will be around for many, many years. You're only now saying he could stick around because I'm questioning the nonsense you've said in the past. The only program out there right now that can be mentioned with Bama is Clemson. Why you went outta your way to even mention the Buckeyes when they have nothing do to with your Gophers homerism at it's finest.

And I have nothing against Minnesota and certainly didn't compare them to Cincinnati like you did. I root for all BigTen teams not located in ann arbor. I hope Fleck is successful. But I'm not foolish enough to think that with more success bigger programs with more money won't be interested in him. Say a tradition-rich program like N.D. shows interest in him. You really think he'd pass on a job like that to stay in Minnesota?