arian foster

[imac_21]

Don't think so but a research scholarship (years ago) was only tuition plus ~$500 per month. NOT included: books, computers, any other supplies, rent, food, car insurance, health insurance, gas, electricity, water, access to a gym, and cable to name a few things.

AND research scholarships require a maintenance of a certain GPA (typically >3.0), a minimum academic workload per semester, teaching a class or lab, research time, publications, and presenting at conferences. Failure to maintain that and the scholarship could be revoked.

If I wrote a great paper or received a patent, I didn't go to a bowl game and get watches, play stations, iPads, and sunglasses.

And finally, it's not like I was in my hometown. I was far way from home and most people were in my same position financially. It wasn't like people were waiting outside my dorm or lab every day looking to take me to Applebee's. I get it.....that was an option, but it's not like gift cards were falling out of trees.

Again, not apples to apples.

But they weren't restricted in their ability acquire money to pay for things not covered by their scholarships. Athletes are.

The requirements to maintain your scholarship in this case are irrelevant IMO. There are requirements to maintain an athletic scholarship as well. The requirements in both cases are related to what the scholarship is for. It can be boiled down to "you have the scholarship because you are good at X. If you fail to perform X to a certain standard, we reserve the right to take away your scholarship.

How many student-athletes are in their hometown? Those that are getting offers to go to lunch are recognizable people. This is what the argument has been all along. You should be able to capitalize on your personal value. Reggie Bush was one of the greatest college football players ever. He was the face of one of the greatest college programs of the last 20 years. He had monetary value as an individual (much as Manziel does now). The NCAA did not allow Bush to profit off of his personal value (yet had no problem profiting off of him itself).

I'm also not agreeing that researchers should not be allowed to profit off of their discoveries. That's not an NCAA issue, but if there was an outcry for student researchers to receive some compensation for their patents, I would support that as well. Just because one aspect of university life is backwards and unfair to the students (scientific research) doesn't justify similar treatment to another aspect (athletics).

I don't think anyone would try to argue that it is okay for the Muslim world to oppress women based on their treatment of Jews (or vice versa).

 

[imac_21]

One more thing and then I need to bolt for a while. I don't think the current model works. I don't like the NCAA. My main point is its not as simple as paying the athletes. It's a very complicated topic.

Absolutely. It's incredibly complex. I don't think that's justification to leave the status quo however.

 

[imac_21]

And there's a reason for that - integrity and trying to maintain a leveled playing field across all divisions. It's obviously idealistic, but the rule is there for a reason.

The rule is there for a reason, but it isn't doing shit. There is no level playing field. And the idea of maintaining a level field stinks of communist idealism.

Even if every school followed NCAA policy exactly, there is no way a who grows up in Montgomery, Alabama who gets full scholarship offers from UA and UAB considers them both equally. Same goes for a kid from New Orleans who gets the same offer from LSU and Tulane.

The fair playing field doesn't exist, and it can't exist. You cannot make Alabama and UAB equally appealing. You cannot make LSU and Tulane equally appealing.

 

[imac_21]

There you go, and it's entirely possible to find a job on campus for 15-20 hrs per week. I did it. Everyone I knew who needed money did it. All schools help their students get these jobs.

Did you have to juggle playing Div 1 football as well?

And I want to echo one of Dub's questions: Does film study (and weight room time) count towards the 20 hours per week?

For a college football player, you allow 15-20 hours of classes per week, 20 hours of practice per week, they are unavailable on Saturdays in-season, they are unavailable some Fridays and Sundays, they have homework, they sleep . . . .

 

[imac_21]

Fair enough Imac, and I basically agree with everything you said. This stuff is just off the top of my head, not well thought-out or considered. Its a fair point that football brings in the dough, so they'd get more, but its just one of many issues of fairness that would be involved here. Take Title 9 stuff for instance, with its spending mandates for men and womens' sports - it is a total denial of reality.....but given that they use that type of equality-driven rule, I think you'd have a tough time even giving football players the lion's share, let alone certain players getting more.

I agree that it would be a struggle to get everyone fair compensation (as opposed to equal compensation). Honestly, the solution for me is to get rid of many of the restrictions (maybe put a cap on the value of gifts each athlete can receive in a school year at a number higher than $0.00) and, this is the biggest one for me, allow the athletes to make money off their personal value (make money off their name and likeness).

 

[clyde_carbon]

Did you have to juggle playing Div 1 football as well?

And I want to echo one of Dub's questions: Does film study (and weight room time) count towards the 20 hours per week?

For a college football player, you allow 15-20 hours of classes per week, 20 hours of practice per week, they are unavailable on Saturdays in-season, they are unavailable some Fridays and Sundays, they have homework, they sleep . . . .

No, I didn't have to juggle Div 1 football, but my schooling wasn't paid for, my housing wasn't paid for, and my rent wasn't paid for, and my food wasn't paid for.

 

[imac_21]

No, I didn't have to juggle Div 1 football, but my schooling wasn't paid for, my housing wasn't paid for, and my rent wasn't paid for, and my food wasn't paid for.

Okay, but you're arguing that because you had time to work 15-20 hours per week, a football player also has that time. This is a time conversation, not a money conversation. You've already explained that they have 20 hours of week dedicated to practice. That cancels out the 20 hours that you worked (I'm still uncertain if that 20 hours includes film study and weight room time).

Could you have worked 40 hours a week as a student?

 

[Flyingiguana]

I don't like the "free ride" thing that you are throwing out there, the universities make much more money off of athletes (especially football players) than they do your regular student.

it's the university who is getting the free ride

 

[clyde_carbon]

Okay, but you're arguing that because you had time to work 15-20 hours per week, a football player also has that time. This is a time conversation, not a money conversation. You've already explained that they have 20 hours of week dedicated to practice. That cancels out the 20 hours that you worked (I'm still uncertain if that 20 hours includes film study and weight room time).

Could you have worked 40 hours a week as a student?

No. I was taking 15-18 units a semester, WHILE working 30 hours a week. WHILE I had to juggle paying for rent, paying for my food, paying for my training/gym, and, most importantly, paying for my schooling. Let's forget the facts that they don't pay for scrap, get a free educations, get free housing and free meals daily, and free training. I'm not even gonna have to add in the fact that they are babysat through every classroom to make sure they graduate with a degree.

But that doesn't count for anything, I guess.

 

[NinerSickness]

Just a slight clarification:

Playing college football is not "work" in that it's not a job. It's a hobby.

 

[imac_21]

No. I was taking 15-18 units a semester, WHILE working 30 hours a week. WHILE I had to juggle paying for rent, paying for my food, paying for my training/gym, and, most importantly, paying for my schooling. Let's forget the facts that they don't pay for scrap, get a free educations, get free housing and free meals daily, and free training. I'm not even gonna have to add in the fact that they are babysat through every classroom to make sure they graduate with a degree.

But that doesn't count for anything, I guess.

This is a very misleading way to outline this. Presumably your job was how you paid for rent, food, training schooling (your job and potentially loans).

What you're discussing here is NOT a money issue. You're saying that because you had time to work, so should college football players. You stated earlier that they have enough time work 20 hours a week because you did. They have 20 hours of practice (still uncertain about workouts and film study) taken up by football.

The 20 to 30 hours that you worked (I noticed it grew from 15-20 up to 30 over the course of a few posts) they have dedicated to football. All the time you spend "juggling" to pay rent, tuition, for food etc is already accounted for with your job. That's where you are making the money that pays for those things.

If you don't like that they get scholarships and you didn't, you should have earned a scholarship. If you received an academic scholarship, would having a friend buy you dinner cost you that scholarship?

Your posts stink of jealousy. Because these guys got something you didn't, Johnny Manziel should be punished for being paid for his services.

 

[clyde_carbon]

And for all the people who want to pay college athletes, how would you do?

- How much do you allocated for each sport? Do football players make more than tennis players? Do basketball players make more than water polo players?

- How do you allocated WITHIN the sport? Do starters make more than 2nd/3rd stringers? Does a QB make more than an OG?

- Who negotiates this? Is it a fixed income? Is it inflation-proof? Is it a year-by-year basis?

- Do you pay the athletes before, during, or after the season? After every game?

- What happens if these athletes are spending the money they are given on smoking weed and drinking, further distracting them from playing football and being STUDENT athletes?

- How much would you give them, exactly? Knowing that their tuition, books, housing, and meals are being paid for? How much would they need on a weekly basis, and on what?

- Is there a "salary cap" on how much a school can pay its players?

So many questions, not very many answers in this thread.

 

[imac_21]

Just a slight clarification:

Playing college football is not "work" in that it's not a job. It's a hobby.

"work" and "job" are not synonyms. Students do work in class. they get homeWORK. Those are not jobs. Those are not hobbies.

SchoolWORK and homeWORK are still WORK.

When one goes into the yard in the spring and starts pulling weeds, mowing the lawn and planting the garden, it is still WORK. Specifically, it's yardWORK. Just because it's not a JOB, does not mean it is not WORK.

 

[TobyTyler]

glad someone stepped up. kudos to foster.

I kind of wish he has kept his mouth shut. It will only hurt kids who are there now if any penalties come from it.

 

[TobyTyler]

He is telling the absolute truth, it is impossible for guys. When you are a college football player you don't know where that final meal is coming from, when I was in college we have meals from Monday through Saturday but on Sunday you had to fend for yourself. Roman Noodles don't do too much when you are a football player and need fuel, we used to chop up hot dogs and put it in there which helped but you are still starving afterwards. I had my parents send me money, they were never going to find out.

Why is that? That seems kind of strange. They should at least feed you.

 

[TobyTyler]

Yes, but why say "I'm not scared of them anymore"? What the hell can they do to him now? Seems like he's being a bit over-dramatic.

It does seem kind of like a punk move, especially when the only ones who will be hurt by his chicanery are the innocents who are there now.

 

[imac_21]

And for all the people who want to pay college athletes, how would you do?

- How much do you allocated for each sport? Do football players make more than tennis players? Do basketball players make more than water polo players?

- How do you allocated WITHIN the sport? Do starters make more than 2nd/3rd stringers? Does a QB make more than an OG?

- Who negotiates this? Is it a fixed income? Is it inflation-proof? Is it a year-by-year basis?

- Do you pay the athletes before, during, or after the season? After every game?

- What happens if these athletes are spending the money they are given on smoking weed and drinking, further distracting them from playing football and being STUDENT athletes?

- How much would you have them, exactly? Knowing that their tuition, books, housing, and meals are being paid for? How much would they need on a weekly basis, and on what?

- Is there a "salary cap" on how much a school can pay its players?

So many questions, not very many answers in this thread.

So, as I said earlier, because the solution is difficult, it shouldn't be addressed.

Stop trying to solve the poverty problem in the USA. It's a difficult problem to deal with, so ignore it.

Stop trying to solve the promlems in the Middle East. It's really complicated, so just leave it alone.

Also, I have suggested solutions. Mainly, don't pay them directly for what they do on the field, just don't restrict their ability to make money based on what they do on the field. If Johnny Manziel wants to take money for signing autographs, then allow Johnny Manziel to take money for signing autographs. Don't toy with the idea of suspending him for the season.
If Terrell Pryor wants to pay for tattoos with his autograph or memorabilia that BELONGS to him, and a tattoo artist agrees to that compensation, don't suspend him for half the season.
If a rich alum wants to thank JaDaveon Clowney for his contributions to SC football by paying his rent or buying him a car, allow that to happen.
If someone wants to take AJ McCarron to lunch to congratulate him on beating A&M last week, allow it to happen.

That way, you allow the market to dictate the value of the players. Since your biggest issue with this seems to be determining how to value each individual, let the market do it.

 

[clyde_carbon]

This is a very misleading way to outline this. Presumably your job was how you paid for rent, food, training schooling (your job and potentially loans).

What you're discussing here is NOT a money issue. You're saying that because you had time to work, so should college football players. You stated earlier that they have enough time work 20 hours a week because you did. They have 20 hours of practice (still uncertain about workouts and film study) taken up by football.

The 20 to 30 hours that you worked (I noticed it grew from 15-20 up to 30 over the course of a few posts) they have dedicated to football. All the time you spend "juggling" to pay rent, tuition, for food etc is already accounted for with your job. That's where you are making the money that pays for those things.

If you don't like that they get scholarships and you didn't, you should have earned a scholarship. If you received an academic scholarship, would having a friend buy you dinner cost you that scholarship?

Your posts stink of jealousy. Because these guys got something you didn't, Johnny Manziel should be punished for being paid for his services.

Lol, I have hard time believing Johnny Manziel in any way is being punished.

It didn't grow. The 15 hours I mentioned earlier was for student athletes. They don't need to work more than that. 15 hours per week at 10 an hour is $150 a week. When their tuition, books, training, and meals are being paid for, why (and on what) would they need more than that?

And yes, despite being a FULL-TIME student, having to manage all of my finances, paying school bills, buying books, trying to find classes (which takes a ridiculous amount of time), I was able to work 30+ hours per week. Student athletes don't have to do any of that. They don't have to worry about paying bills, they don't have to wait for classes because they get priority, they get special tutoring sessions just for them that they don't have to sign up and wait for, they don't have to pay $200 a book, they don't have to spend $30 a day on campus food, etc.

The notion that student athletes don't have time to get a 15 hour fucking job is an absolute farce. I've been around and friends with them for the last five years. They have plenty of time to fuck around and go to bars and clubs, but they don't have to work a few hours a week to pay for the LUXURY expenses that they so desperately need? GTFO.

 

[imac_21]

I kind of wish he has kept his mouth shut. It will only hurt kids who are there now if any penalties come from it.

Agreed. With both of you. It's nice that former players are stepping up and calling attention to how ridiculous the NCAA is, but unfortunately, the NCAA is ridiculous enough to punish the players currently at Tennessee for benefits Foster received.

I know that was a few HCs ago at UT (4?), and a few RBs ago. Is the administration within the athletics department (AD) the same?

 

[clyde_carbon]

So, as I said earlier, because the solution is difficult, it shouldn't be addressed.

Stop trying to solve the poverty problem in the USA. It's a difficult problem to deal with, so ignore it.

Stop trying to solve the promlems in the Middle East. It's really complicated, so just leave it alone.

Also, I have suggested solutions. Mainly, don't pay them directly for what they do on the field, just don't restrict their ability to make money based on what they do on the field. If Johnny Manziel wants to take money for signing autographs, then allow Johnny Manziel to take money for signing autographs. Don't toy with the idea of suspending him for the season.
If Terrell Pryor wants to pay for tattoos with his autograph or memorabilia that BELONGS to him, and a tattoo artist agrees to that compensation, don't suspend him for half the season.
If a rich alum wants to thank JaDaveon Clowney for his contributions to SC football by paying his rent or buying him a car, allow that to happen.
If someone wants to take AJ McCarron to lunch to congratulate him on beating A&M last week, allow it to happen.

That way, you allow the market to dictate the value of the players. Since your biggest issue with this seems to be determining how to value each individual, let the market do it.

That I agree with. I'm referring STRICTLY to schools giving these players a salary.