arian foster

[TobyTyler]

Did you have to juggle playing Div 1 football as well?

And I want to echo one of Dub's questions: Does film study (and weight room time) count towards the 20 hours per week?

For a college football player, you allow 15-20 hours of classes per week, 20 hours of practice per week, they are unavailable on Saturdays in-season, they are unavailable some Fridays and Sundays, they have homework, they sleep . . . .

Arent Div 1 athletes barred from having a job at school

 

[NinerSickness]

"work" and "job" are not synonyms. Students do work in class. they get homeWORK. Those are not jobs. Those are not hobbies.

SchoolWORK and homeWORK are still WORK.

When one goes into the yard in the spring and starts pulling weeds, mowing the lawn and planting the garden, it is still WORK. Specifically, it's yardWORK. Just because it's not a JOB, does not mean it is not WORK.

This is all true, but the topic you're addressing is getting compensation for "work." If someone does 40 hours of school work a week, that doesn't mean they deserve to be paid for it based on how many hours I work on it. If I play in a softball league and "work" at it 20 hours a week, that doesn't mean I deserve to be paid for working 20 hours.

College football is like being in a weekend softball league. People sign up to play voluntarily (which makes the South Park video about "slaves" a bit stupid despite some other great parody they've done). CFB players even sign things saying they won't accept any financial compensation for what they're doing.

 

[TobyTyler]

And for all the people who want to pay college athletes, how would you do?
- How much do you allocated for each sport? Do football players make more than tennis players? Do basketball players make more than water polo players?

- How do you allocated WITHIN the sport? Do starters make more than 2nd/3rd stringers? Does a QB make more than an OG?

- Who negotiates this? Is it a fixed income? Is it inflation-proof? Is it a year-by-year basis?

- Do you pay the athletes before, during, or after the season? After every game?

- What happens if these athletes are spending the money they are given on smoking weed and drinking, further distracting them from playing football and being STUDENT athletes?

- How much would you give them, exactly? Knowing that their tuition, books, housing, and meals are being paid for? How much would they need on a weekly basis, and on what?

- Is there a "salary cap" on how much a school can pay its players?

So many questions, not very many answers in this thread.

Just like out in the world. You'd get paid by the value you bring to the job. If you are on the fencing team at Michigan you get paid a little, if you are on the football team there you get more.

 

[TobyTyler]

Agreed. With both of you. It's nice that former players are stepping up and calling attention to how ridiculous the NCAA is, but unfortunately, the NCAA is ridiculous enough to punish the players currently at Tennessee for benefits Foster received.

I know that was a few HCs ago at UT (4?), and a few RBs ago. Is the administration within the athletics department (AD) the same?

Yep, they punished the kids at SC now for what Reggie Bush did while they were in the 8th grade. Its absurd.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Let's look at what student athletes receive from their schools:

- Free tuition
- Free books
- Free housing/no rent
- Free training/preparation for their careers
- Are constantly pampered and babysat by advisers and tutors.
- Get priority enrollment.
- No wait-lists for events/sessions/classes etc.
- Get allowances when they are on the road that they can spend on w/e they want.

and so many other smalls things that make their college lives infinitely more comfortable than a regular college student.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Just like out in the world. You'd get paid by the value you bring to the job. If you are on the fencing team at Michigan you get paid a little, if you are on the football team there you get more.

Then, in that case, let's stop calling them STUDENT athletes, since it looks like they already have a career, no?

 

[TobyTyler]

Let's look at what student athletes receive from their schools:

- Free tuition
- Free books
- Free housing/no rent
- Free training/preparation for their careers
- Are constantly pampered and babysat by advisers and tutors.
- Get priority enrollment.
- No wait-lists for events/sessions/classes etc.
- Get allowances when they are on the road that they can spend on w/e they want.

and so many other smalls things that make their college lives infinitely more comfortable than a regular college student.

That's true. Its a tough argument.

 

[clyde_carbon]

And honestly, while I'm arguing AGAINST payments for student athletes right now, like I said in the beginning, I'm on the fence on this one. I want to see an actual blueprint for how the salaries would work. Everyone is always talking about how student athletes should be paid, but nobody answers how, when, and who.

 

[clyde_carbon]

That's true. Its a tough argument.

Absolutely. That's why I'm on the fence. I can see both sides. I just hate to see the NCAA make SO MUCH money off of these kids without any compensation, but at the same time, let's not act as if these kids' lives are hard. They have it better than almost every other student.

 

[TobyTyler]

Then, in that case, let's stop calling them STUDENT athletes, since it looks like they already have a career, no?

I've been saying that for a long time. That term is a joke.

 

[TobyTyler]

And honestly, while I'm arguing AGAINST payments for student athletes right now, like I said in the beginning, I'm on the fence on this one. I want to see an actual blueprint for how the salaries would work. Everyone is always talking about how student athletes should be paid, but nobody answers how, when, and who.

Me too.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I've been saying that for a long time. That term is a joke.

Exactly. If we're gonna go that route, they shouldn't even require athletes to go to school. Athletes will be providing a service, and will be paid for their services. An employee of the school, if you will.

 

[imac_21]

Lol, I have hard time believing Johnny Manziel in any way is being punished.

Well, he was suspended for a half for being compensated for providing his services. There was talk of suspending him for the entire season. Many people feel the NCAA backed off because of the hypocricy of the issue. But he was absolutely punished for receiving compensation for providing his services. As was Terrell Pryor et al at OSU. Unless you don't believe that suspensions are punishments.

It didn't grow. The 15 hours I mentioned earlier was for student athletes. They don't need to work more than that. 15 hours per week at 10 an hour is $150 a week. When their tuition, books, training, and meals are being paid for, why (and on what) would they need more than that?

As I've been saying all along, this is a time issue. Not a money issue.

And yes, despite being a FULL-TIME student, having to manage all of my finances, paying school bills, buying books, trying to find classes (which takes a ridiculous amount of time), I was able to work 30+ hours per week. Student athletes don't have to do any of that. They don't have to worry about paying bills, they don't have to wait for classes because they get priority, they get special tutoring sessions just for them that they don't have to sign up and wait for, they don't have to pay $200 a book, they don't have to spend $30 a day on campus food, etc.

All of the money stuff you discuss occurs due to your job. And now it's 30+ hours a week? Before long you'll have been taking 40 hours of class and working 80 hours a week. Fuck sleep. It takes a ridiculous amount of time to find classes? Are you talking about registration, or finding the physical rooms? If it's finding the actual classrooms, it takes a few hours on one day. I assume you weren't on some "5 First Dates" shit where you woke up every morning with amnesia and had to do everything all over again. I assume that once you found your class in August or September, you knew where it was in November.

How much time did you have to study game film of your next opponent? How much time did you HAVE (not choose) to spend in the weight room? How much time did you have to spend on the practice field preparing for the next game?

The notion that student athletes don't have time to get a 15 hour fucking job is an absolute farce. I've been around and friends with them for the last five years. They have plenty of time to fuck around and go to bars and clubs, but they don't have to work a few hours a week to pay for the LUXURY expenses that they so desperately need? GTFO.

I don't see how "going to bars and clubs" means you have time for a 15 hour job. Unless that job is going to be tending bar a couple nights a week. My college experience with the night life was that it usually took place at night. When we went to a bar, it was generally late at night.

Should the job take the place of going out at night? Should they work from 10 pm to 2 am and never go out? Is that the sacrifice they have to make because they were talented enough in a sport to get their education paid for?

And you may have missed the article about Arian Foster where he talks about needing food, or Dodub's posts in here about having meals covered Monday to Saturday but being on his own Sunday. Either that or you consider having the opportunity to eat every day a LUXURY.

I'm also curious as to how many jobs there are that offer the hours college athletes would be available to work that pay $10/hour. Minimum wage in California right now is $8 per hour. Alabama doesn't have a minimum wage; nor does Louisiana. Arkansas is $6.25. Georgia is $5.15. Many states have two-tiered minimum wage systems where the size of the employer influences minimum wage. Small businesses in Oklahoma have a minimum wage of $2.00.

Washington has the highest minimum wage in the US at $9.19. So why would you assume that these guys can get jobs that will pay them $10.00 per hour? What's more important to the company these guys may work for? Is it having a dependable employee that can work a steady schedule and doesn't need time off for games etc AND making as much money as possible (by maximizing revenue and minimizing expenses); or is it helping out a football player? Should a small business in Oklahoma pay a Sooner $10.00 per hour rather than Joe Regular-Student $2.00 per hour?

But that's beside the point. Why should a company pay someone 10$ per hour when they can get away, in many states of paying him in the $6-$7 range?

Also, all that information on minimum wage is accurate as of Jan 1, 2013.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm

 

[imac_21]

That I agree with. I'm referring STRICTLY to schools giving these players a salary.

I'm arguing against all the restrictions on their ability to make money while refusing to pay them. If you aren't going to pay them, allow them make money off their celebrity. If you are going to restrict their ability to make money off their celebrity (with some of the most ridiculous interpretations of that rule imaginable) then pay them a salary. Even if that salary is just $150 per week you suggest they could make with a part time job. It doesn't have to be about making them rich. But the system should not force some to live in poverty either.

 

[imac_21]

Arent Div 1 athletes barred from having a job at school

I don't know.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I'm arguing against all the restrictions on their ability to make money while refusing to pay them. If you aren't going to pay them, allow them make money off their celebrity. If you are going to restrict their ability to make money off their celebrity (with some of the most ridiculous interpretations of that rule imaginable) then pay them a salary. Even if that salary is just $150 per week you suggest they could make with a part time job. It doesn't have to be about making them rich. But the system should not force some to live in poverty either.

I'm sure 9/10 students are living in poverty counting their pocket change. I was. Everyone I knew was, student athlete or not. What about them?

 

[clyde_carbon]

Well, he was suspended for a half for being compensated for providing his services. There was talk of suspending him for the entire season. Many people feel the NCAA backed off because of the hypocricy of the issue. But he was absolutely punished for receiving compensation for providing his services. As was Terrell Pryor et al at OSU. Unless you don't believe that suspensions are punishments.



As I've been saying all along, this is a time issue. Not a money issue.



All of the money stuff you discuss occurs due to your job. And now it's 30+ hours a week? Before long you'll have been taking 40 hours of class and working 80 hours a week. Fuck sleep. It takes a ridiculous amount of time to find classes? Are you talking about registration, or finding the physical rooms? If it's finding the actual classrooms, it takes a few hours on one day. I assume you weren't on some "5 First Dates" shit where you woke up every morning with amnesia and had to do everything all over again. I assume that once you found your class in August or September, you knew where it was in November.

How much time did you have to study game film of your next opponent? How much time did you HAVE (not choose) to spend in the weight room? How much time did you have to spend on the practice field preparing for the next game?



I don't see how "going to bars and clubs" means you have time for a 15 hour job. Unless that job is going to be tending bar a couple nights a week. My college experience with the night life was that it usually took place at night. When we went to a bar, it was generally late at night.

Should the job take the place of going out at night? Should they work from 10 pm to 2 am and never go out? Is that the sacrifice they have to make because they were talented enough in a sport to get their education paid for?

And you may have missed the article about Arian Foster where he talks about needing food, or Dodub's posts in here about having meals covered Monday to Saturday but being on his own Sunday. Either that or you consider having the opportunity to eat every day a LUXURY.

I'm also curious as to how many jobs there are that offer the hours college athletes would be available to work that pay $10/hour. Minimum wage in California right now is $8 per hour. Alabama doesn't have a minimum wage; nor does Louisiana. Arkansas is $6.25. Georgia is $5.15. Many states have two-tiered minimum wage systems where the size of the employer influences minimum wage. Small businesses in Oklahoma have a minimum wage of $2.00.

Washington has the highest minimum wage in the US at $9.19. So why would you assume that these guys can get jobs that will pay them $10.00 per hour? What's more important to the company these guys may work for? Is it having a dependable employee that can work a steady schedule and doesn't need time off for games etc AND making as much money as possible (by maximizing revenue and minimizing expenses); or is it helping out a football player? Should a small business in Oklahoma pay a Sooner $10.00 per hour rather than Joe Regular-Student $2.00 per hour?

But that's beside the point. Why should a company pay someone 10$ per hour when they can get away, in many states of paying him in the $6-$7 range?

Also, all that information on minimum wage is accurate as of Jan 1, 2013.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm

Good post. I have to run now, but I will address it when I come back.

 

[Robotech]

Isn't there enough money in these programs to make sure these guys are fed??? They know full well that football players need to eat a lot of food, and that they need healthy food. Healthy food is expensive. There are a lot of problems with college football and the NCAA, but it seems like they should be able to at least fix this problem.

 

[NinerSickness]

I'm arguing against all the restrictions on their ability to make money while refusing to pay them. If you aren't going to pay them, allow them make money off their celebrity. If you are going to restrict their ability to make money off their celebrity (with some of the most ridiculous interpretations of that rule imaginable) then pay them a salary. Even if that salary is just $150 per week you suggest they could make with a part time job. It doesn't have to be about making them rich. But the system should not force some to live in poverty either.

You're basically arguing that the really, really, really, really, really good players who will probably be in the NFL one day (the celebrities) 95% of whom are already making money off their celebrity in secret (let's be honest) should be able to make money doing things that might take profits away from the NCAA. I'm not against that idea, but why the hell would the NCAA allow that when it would cost them money?

Also, no D1 football players live in "poverty." They might not have a bunch of discretionary income, but they're not struggling to feed themselves or living on the street.

 

[imac_21]

This is all true, but the topic you're addressing is getting compensation for "work." If someone does 40 hours of school work a week, that doesn't mean they deserve to be paid for it based on how many hours I work on it. If I play in a softball league and "work" at it 20 hours a week, that doesn't mean I deserve to be paid for working 20 hours.

College football is like being in a weekend softball league. People sign up to play voluntarily (which makes the South Park video about "slaves" a bit stupid despite some other great parody they've done). CFB players even sign things saying they won't accept any financial compensation for what they're doing.

College football is nothing like playing in a weekend softball league. How many softball leagues are "for profit?" Most softball leagues I'm familiar with charge a nominal registration fee to cover expenses (field rental, compensation for umpires, possibly equipment costs). The NCAA is a billion dollar industry, that makes much of its billions off the fame of its players.

Any profit a softball league makes comes from registration fees. College football players don't pay an out of pocket registration fee to my knowledge (I assume schools pay a fee to be a part of the NCAA).

Softball leagues don't make money off ticket sales or merchandise/memorabilia/paraphernalia made desirable by those that play in the league. I would imagine, without seeing the books, that the NCAA makes a significant chunk of its money off merchandise/memorabilia/paraphernalia sales made desirable by its athletes (I don't imagine a Texas A&M #2 jersey was very popular 3 years ago. Now I imagine its a top seller. Same for #7 for South Carolina). At least the NCAA was making money (at least blatantly making money) off of these jersey sales until August with the Manziel autograph fallout. Read:
Online jersey sales highlight NCAA's hypocrisy on amateurism - College Football - Andy Staples - SI.com

Also, check out NCAA fan shop to no longer offer school merchandise - NCAA.com. To summarize the article above, you USED to be able to go to that website, do a search for "Manziel" (and "Clowney", and "Bridgewater" and "Boyd" and "McCarron") would give results of a jersey for the team they played for, with the number they wear (though not with their name on it). Jay Bilas, in response to the NCAA's pending discipline of Manziel, began tweeting this information out. In response to this (though the NCAA won't admit it), they stopped selling product on that site (check the website at the beginning of this paragraph for the NCAA's response).

Your essentially saying that a kid's lemonade stand on the side of the street is the equivalent of Coca Cola because they both deal with drinks.