arian foster

[imac_21]

I agree. I'm on the fence on this one. Who gets paid? Do they all get paid? Do certain positions get paid more than other positions? Do first stringers get paid more the third stringers? Given that they are already on a full-ride, HOW much do they get paid? Do they get paid before, during, or after the season? I can't help but think that paying college athletes is just gonna create more of mess.

One thing I would be in favor of is creating an annuity for the players stipulating that they get paid down the line after they graduate. They would still be paid, but the $$$ wouldn't reach them until they are no longer attending the university or college.

So you would be in favour of paying them when they have graduated and can put their education to use and get paid for a full time job, but would do nothing to help them while they struggle financially at school?

With regards to other posts in this thread, I will start by admitting that I don't have a full grasp of all the rules and restrictions on NCAA athletes, but it seems misleading to compare them to "regular" students in financial need.

I don't believe there are any restrictions on Joe Regular-Student in terms of accepting gifts (whether cash, books, cars or meals) from people. If a student athlete goes out to lunch with someone and doesn't pay for his own meal, he is risking his eligibility. Dez Bryant was suspended for a season for lying about going to Deion Sanders' house because he was afraid that going to Sanders' house was a violation of NCAA policy.

I don't understand how, when there are hundreds of stories of hardship from college athletes, people can say these guys have it easy financially. Yes, they get there education paid for and don't get saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in loans to pay back,* however, they are allowed to accept virtually no assistance from anyone in anyway while they attend school. It's silly to act like they have all these privileges with the restrictions put on them.

*This is a bigger issue with American post-secondary schools: it's way too expensive. I did a five year program at one of the top universities in Canada and had a grand total of $24000 to pay back when I graduated. One year's tuition cost me approximately $5500. I was not working while I went to school and minimal support from my family. I worked in the summers as a coach and was paid about as little as possible. It wasn't as if I was paying my own way. The average annual tuition at US 4 year schools while I was attending university in Canada ranged from $28,000 my first year to $30,000 my last year. It would have cost me more for one year of school in the USA than it did for my entire degree in Canada.

 

[shouldakepowens]

Either you give us some food or I'm gonna do something stupid.? What do you have in mind Arian?

 

[imac_21]

I dont think paying them would be a good idea. would should happen is, their cost of living should be assessed and based on that assessment, give them a student debit card for rent, food, hygiene products, etc... The school would have access to view transactions and monitor its use to make sure its being utilize properly.

And I assume, that in the interests of fairness, this should apply to all students on scholarship (academic, music whatever scholarship they get). They should not be allowed to receive anything of value from anyone accept the university, and the school should be allowed to dictate what that money can be spent on.Presumably because if the school does not approve of some of the financial decisions the student makes their access to funds should be cut off/lessened. If some of the top science students in the school, that are making all kinds of discoveries in human genetics, go to lunch with a prominent CERN member and don't pay for their own meals, they should have their access to the labs removed and their scholarships should be at risk.

 

[Dodub]

Why? Are certain players more inclined to get injured than other players? Who's gonna negotiate who gets paid what? Are the salaries fixed year to year, or are they inflation-proof? Is there guaranteed money? Bonuses?

And who says college football players can't get a job?

Because certainly players are more marketable and make more money for the school than others. For instance Johnny Football is more marketable than a 2nd string offensive lineman and should get paid more because of this.

I don't think anyone should negotiate anything, I think it should be a fixed rate based on the status of school and status of their top players while they are at that school.

I don't know if you play college football but there is just no way. With classes followed by practice, followed by film, followed by homework and sprinkle meals and tutoring services (which most school have for college athletes) and there really isn't any time to have a job. When I was in college it wasn't exactly against the rules to have a job, we were just highly encouraged not to add that extra distraction.

 

[imac_21]

I'm sure it depends on the school but I think there are a lot more than people think. Lots of examples from my college days, but I knew one guy who basically lived in his car because he couldn't afford rent after he paid tuition, books, and fed himself. He came from nothing and knew he'd wind up in jail if stayed in his home town. He worked a part time job and sent some of his money home because he had younger siblings. It was sad to watch him Western Union 40 bucks and the fee was another 20. But he knew they needed help.

He fought his way through and is a teacher last I heard.

The difference between him and a student-athlete who is struggling is that he can receive help from others inclined to give it. If someone offered to pay his rent, or take him in as a rent-free tenant there would be no repercussions. If a student-athlete were to take either of those gifts he would forfeit his eligibility.

 

[tomikcon1971]

I agree. I'm on the fence on this one. Who gets paid? Do they all get paid? Do certain positions get paid more than other positions? Do first stringers get paid more the third stringers? Given that they are already on a full-ride, HOW much do they get paid? Do they get paid before, during, or after the season? I can't help but think that paying college athletes is just gonna create more of mess.

One thing I would be in favor of is creating an annuity for the players stipulating that they get paid down the line after they graduate. They would still be paid, but the $$$ wouldn't reach them until they are no longer attending the university or college.

I thought about a model that insures they have money to finish their education. I'm not necessarily a fan of a payout of cash. I believe they need to get an education. That ultimately benefits them the most. A few examples: they have a career ending injury the cash is there for them to finish. Someone leaves after their junior year and it's ultimately a bad decision. They can go back and get their education. Almost like a GI bill for those who serve their country.

 

[imac_21]

Why? Are certain players more inclined to get injured than other players? Who's gonna negotiate who gets paid what? Are the salaries fixed year to year, or are they inflation-proof? Is there guaranteed money? Bonuses?

And who says college football players can't get a job?

So because the solution to the question of how to compensate student-athletes is a difficult one, we should just ignore it?

How many other questions should be ignored because the solutions are difficult?

Would that be a good approach to the trouble in the Middle East? Since it's difficult to solve the problems, let's just ignore it?

How about poverty at home? It doesn't have an easy solution, so just ignore it.

 

[CalamityX11]

For me I can't help comparing the student athletes to regular students.... both go to school, one class is given a "free ride" or close to it while the other, even with assistance, grants, scholarships etc... have to work harder for a smaller payout financially in the future.

Not to mention all the scholarships the athletes take, I'm sure it affects the ability to hand out more to the other students... throw in the constant absurd rising tuition... its crazy.

 

[Dodub]

I agree with Clyde

and I'm glad Tomikcon said "First, there are plenty of people in college just as poor as the student athletes without a free ride. Some financial aid is available but it doesn't cover everything for them either. "

I'm a bit of a dick with little sympathy for these matters when it comes to "paying" these collegiate athletes... I cannot believe the schools could not give these kids food... i'm sure food was fucking available for them. Now, if he was talking about his family, thats a different story and IMO not the school's problem. That's government aid, if you need it.

BTW, Foster... No ncaa, no nfl, no $$$...... Don't like it, don't play or sign up for it at that time. There are hundreds of students with no benefit or option to go "pro" to make the millions to repay their loans...work maybe twice as hard as an athlete to go out and hope to land a job that pays significantly less than an athlete would make.

sorry, but sh*t like this pisses me off.

But here you are going by assumption. From my experience the meal plan that I had was Monday through Saturday because they want people to pay for the final day in order to be able to eat. You walk around with the bare bones money wise and have empty pockets all the time. There is barely enough to get by on and when you are burning well over 1,000 calories a practice, there is no way that you can get by on just eating those three meals. Again that is just my experience from my playing days. It may be easy to be skeptical from an outside perspective but you have to walk a mile in their shoes.

 

[tomikcon1971]

The difference between him and a student-athlete who is struggling is that he can receive help from others inclined to give it. If someone offered to pay his rent, or take him in as a rent-free tenant there would be no repercussions. If a student-athlete were to take either of those gifts he would forfeit his eligibility.

I agree that it's not an apples to apples comparison. However, I also don't think it's fair to say the athletes are the only ones with struggles and challenges. And I'm not saying that's your position.

I absolutely agree on the cost comment you made above. It's insane what I paid versus my children. That's a big discussion all by itself.

 

[imac_21]

I agree with Clyde

and I'm glad Tomikcon said "First, there are plenty of people in college just as poor as the student athletes without a free ride. Some financial aid is available but it doesn't cover everything for them either. "

I'm a bit of a dick with little sympathy for these matters when it comes to "paying" these collegiate athletes... I cannot believe the schools could not give these kids food... i'm sure food was fucking available for them. Now, if he was talking about his family, thats a different story and IMO not the school's problem. That's government aid, if you need it.

BTW, Foster... No ncaa, no nfl, no $$$...... Don't like it, don't play or sign up for it at that time. There are hundreds of students with no benefit or option to go "pro" to make the millions to repay their loans...work maybe twice as hard as an athlete to go out and hope to land a job that pays significantly less than an athlete would make.

sorry, but sh*t like this pisses me off.

Bullshit to the bold. If there was no NCAA football there would be a different program for elite 19-23 year old football players that would lead to the NFL. Up until just a few years ago the NCAA wasn't necessary for the NBA, and many European players will tell you it still isn't.

NCAA hockey is far from necessary to play in the NHL. I'd be willing to bet there are more former CHL players in the NHL than NCAA. Probably more who came through Euro systems as well.

NCAA baseball isn't necessary to play in the MLB either.

If NCAA football were gone then someone(s), possibly the NFL, would start some sort of minor league/development program for those guys to play in.

I wonder how no NCAA football would affect the cash flow of major university athletic departments? How would USC athletics do if they didn't have a football team?

 

[Dodub]

For me I can't help comparing the student athletes to regular students.... both go to school, one class is given a "free ride" or close to it while the other, even with assistance, grants, scholarships etc... have to work harder for a smaller payout financially in the future.

Not to mention all the scholarships the athletes take, I'm sure it affects the ability to hand out more to the other students... throw in the constant absurd rising tuition... its crazy.

I don't like the "free ride" thing that you are throwing out there, the universities make much more money off of athletes (especially football players) than they do your regular student.

 

[clyde_carbon]

So you would be in favour of paying them when they have graduated and can put their education to use and get paid for a full time job, but would do nothing to help them while they struggle financially at school?

Almost everyone struggles financially at school, and have been since forever. Get the hell over it. I sure didn't live comfortably while I was in school, and I didn't even have a scholarship.

 

[CalamityX11]

But here you are going by assumption. From my experience the meal plan that I had was Monday through Saturday because they want people to pay for the final day in order to be able to eat. You walk around with the bare bones money wise and have empty pockets all the time. There is barely enough to get by on and when you are burning well over 1,000 calories a practice, there is no way that you can get by on just eating those three meals. Again that is just my experience from my playing days. It may be easy to be skeptical from an outside perspective but you have to walk a mile in their shoes.

Again, I can't vouche for all schools, but they must have a meal plan like a standard $500-?? to spend(per semester?) on school related products such as food, merchandise, equipment etc... thats not counted against the meal plan...

I would think the major universities would have this. Now if we're talking about ordering out, well, then thats' on them on when and how often.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Because certainly players are more marketable and make more money for the school than others. For instance Johnny Football is more marketable than a 2nd string offensive lineman and should get paid more because of this.

I don't think anyone should negotiate anything, I think it should be a fixed rate based on the status of school and status of their top players while they are at that school.

I don't know if you play college football but there is just no way. With classes followed by practice, followed by film, followed by homework and sprinkle meals and tutoring services (which most school have for college athletes) and there really isn't any time to have a job. When I was in college it wasn't exactly against the rules to have a job, we were just highly encouraged not to add that extra distraction.

So not only do you want college athletes to compete in the classrooms and on the fields, but you always want them to compete for who can be more marketable so they can get a big pay check? How do you measure marketability and put it into figures for the athletes?

There's a 20 practice hours a week rule in college. Granted a lot don't follow that rule, but if the NCAA enforces it fully, there shouldn't be a problem for players to get a 15 hour a week job to pay for their every day expenses.

 

[jayviabay]

And I assume, that in the interests of fairness, this should apply to all students on scholarship (academic, music whatever scholarship they get). They should not be allowed to receive anything of value from anyone accept the university, and the school should be allowed to dictate what that money can be spent on.Presumably because if the school does not approve of some of the financial decisions the student makes their access to funds should be cut off/lessened. If some of the top science students in the school, that are making all kinds of discoveries in human genetics, go to lunch with a prominent CERN member and don't pay for their own meals, they should have their access to the labs removed and their scholarships should be at risk.

In all fairness, yes it should apply to all. I think the NCAA should reevaluate how they view extra benefits. How they see someone taking a kid to lunch as a violation is beyond me.

 

[imac_21]

For me I can't help comparing the student athletes to regular students.... both go to school, one class is given a "free ride" or close to it while the other, even with assistance, grants, scholarships etc... have to work harder for a smaller payout financially in the future.

Not to mention all the scholarships the athletes take, I'm sure it affects the ability to hand out more to the other students... throw in the constant absurd rising tuition... its crazy.

I think it's safe to assume that the college athletes, particularly the football and basketball players, tend to bring in more revenue than Joe Regular-Student getting his BA in English as well.

Joe Regular-Student is allowed to accept assistance from anyone he wants.

Joe Football-Player risks getting in trouble if he allows his uncle to buy him lunch.

Joe Football-Player risks losing his eligibility if he hangs out with a former teammate. If Denard Robinson took Devan Gardner to lunch Gardner risks being suspended. It doesn't matter that they were teammates for a few years.

There were people who actually wanted Manziel suspended for the season because he had the audacity to accept money for a service he provided. Are you fucking kidding me? One nice thing that came out of that is that the NCAA apparently decided to stop selling jerseys after enough people pointed out that the NCAA made millions selling Manziel jerseys and was considering suspending him for the season (suspending him for the Bama game would have essentially been the same thing) was massively hypocritical.


Maybe paying players isn't the solution. How about the NCAA treats them like regular people though? If Manziel can make a few thousand dollars in a weekend by signing some footballs and jerseys, LET HIM FUCKING DO IT. If LaMichael James wants to take Marcus Marriota for lunch when Oregon plays Stanford, let LMJ pay for the man's meal.

 

[imac_21]

But here you are going by assumption. From my experience the meal plan that I had was Monday through Saturday because they want people to pay for the final day in order to be able to eat. You walk around with the bare bones money wise and have empty pockets all the time. There is barely enough to get by on and when you are burning well over 1,000 calories a practice, there is no way that you can get by on just eating those three meals. Again that is just my experience from my playing days. It may be easy to be skeptical from an outside perspective but you have to walk a mile in their shoes.

Dub, just for everyone's sake here, can you remind everyone why you seem to have insider information here.

 

[tomikcon1971]

I don't like the "free ride" thing that you keep throwing out there, the universities make much more money off of athletes (especially football players) than they do your regular student.

I'll partially agree with the money piece.....I meant to touch on that before. Surely the schools make money but that varies wildly by conference and school. HOWEVER, regular students as you call them can generate cash as well. I went to a school where the student researchers generated far more cash than the athletic program. And most of the researchers were not on scholarship. And many were working 70-80 hours a week just in the research labs. I slept in my lab many many nights. Never got a dime from all the patents, consulting, federal and private grants. Not one dollar.

All I'm saying is there are no absolute statements.

I was not a scholarship athlete but most of my friends were. I didn't wear their shoes but I have perspective.

 

[Dodub]

Again, I can't vouche for all schools, but they must have a meal plan like a standard $500-?? to spend(per semester?) on school related products such as food, merchandise, equipment etc... thats not counted against the meal plan...

I would think the major universities would have this. Now if we're talking about ordering out, well, then thats' on them on when and how often.

Most places I have heard of get meals (usually not the entire week), bus passes and like $100 month but I can't speak for every single school.

I'm just speaking from my personal experiences and the experiences of my friends who were also student athletes.