Are Mike Green, Dion Phaneuf, & Roberto Luongo Overrated?

[quoipourquoi]

i don't feel like phaneuf is that overrated. i like his style of play. he checks, he fights, he plays defense, and he shows offensive spurts sometimes.

Not last year.


For his offense alone, Mike Green is a good hockey player. Yeah, he's shit on defense, but think of it this way: Is Rick Nash any better offensively than Mike Green? Not fucking really.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

I almost want to say these players have already seen the public opinion on them sway so far to the "overrated" side, that they have become underrated. Luongo is a stellar goalie who has struggled some in the playoffs and been eaten alive by one of the most dangerous offensive teams in the league. Replace Luongo with Nabakov, Vokoun, Miller, would any of those goalies have fared any better? When's the last time a so-called "elite" goalie made any noise in the playoffs? Most of the top goalies in the league get ridden like the ponies you never got for Christmas throughout the regular season, and are too burned out to do anything in the playoffs. When's the last time Brodeur, Miller, Kipper, Lundqvist, etc won a Cup? I think Luongo gets a little more flak for his lack of playoff success and his huge contract, but the guy was buried in Florida for years and has been on some mediocre Vancouver teams. Bottom line, Luongo is just another top ten NHL goaltender who gets overworked during the regular season and flames out in the playoffs.

Phaneuf has seen the pendulum of public opinion swing so hard the other way that he too is "underrated". Defensemen who hit hard, fight, and have a booming slapper with above average offensive ability always seem to be lightning rods. First they are revered for their physical play and awesome one-timers (come on, who isn't a sucker for a blueliner who will light you up on the scorecard and against the glass), but if they aren't Nick Lidstrom with the puck they are quickly turned on. Guys like McCabe, Souray, and soon Jonathan Ericsson tend to get some big contracts that they can't live up to in their own zones. Some guys are just big, mean power play specialists, and to ask any more of them is just too much. Go on HF boards and ask about Phaneuf, you will hear him compared to every junk defensemen ever to play. He actually wasn't that bad last year, but a bad attitude and a propensity for turnovers makes him a goat. He's still young, and has plenty of talent and time to prove himself.

Mike Green only seems to be overrated by the people who pick Norris candidates. Everyone else sees him for what he is; an immensely talented player who is sub par in his defensive decision making. Not many defensemen step into the league with Scott Neidermayer's brain, so let's give this guy time before we label him a one dimensional wonder. In my opinion, he's never going to be the steady defensive presence that some want him to be, and that's fine as long as he continues to put up huge numbers and has a good partner to compensate for his risk taking.

I think these guys are getting "Reverse Ron Francis Syndrome". Remember how Ronnie was "the most underrated guy in hockey" for so damn long? Eventually if everyone talks about it enough, it ceases to be true. At some point you wanted to tell the analysts to shut the hell up, he's not underrated, he's just a really good, not so flashy player.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Not last year.


For his offense alone, Mike Green is a good hockey player. Yeah, he's shit on defense, but think of it this way: Is Rick Nash any better offensively than Mike Green? Not fucking really.

I think of it this way; is Nash a defenseman? Not fucking really.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I think of it this way; is Nash a defenseman? Not fucking really.

But Mike Green isn't a forward and he's still a better scorer! :p

The fact that he's somewhat competent on defense should just be a plus.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Mike Green got burned a lot this past postseason. He's an extra forward on defense. He doesn't play much defense.

Luongo & the word CLUTCH don't belong in the sam sentence. He got lucky at the Olympics. The Canucks have loaded up on the blueline this offseason. If they don't win the Stanley Cup this year all they have to do is look at the guy between the pipes to figure out why.

Of the three Phaneuf is the best player as far as I'm concerned. He can be a physical force when he wants to be. He definately needs to use his open ice hitting ability more often. Dion can put up points as well. The biggest concern for him this season has got to be handling the pressure of being Captain of the Leafs. From what I understand he's never been captain of any team he's ever been on.

 

[Comeds]

I always thought (and have been torn up by some for it) that Louongo was overrated. For years some (TSN, CBC) have touted him as the best goalie in the world. And for years he has underperformed in the playoffs and at times during the regular season. I do think he is good, and a better than average #1 goalie. I just dont know about best in the world.

I dont know Phaneuf enough to know yet, I'll see him a lot more this year.

Green, I am not sure. He is known as a good offensive defensemen and average defensive defensive. I think thats accurate.

I think defensemen are often viewed as overrated, unless they score a ton of points. Unless they are on a team you watch a lot, its hard to see how well they are defensively.

 

[evolver115]

Jay Bouwmeester should be on this list. For the amount of dough he's making up in Calgary, and the amount of hype that surrounded him during his FA time, I'm not that impressed with him.

 

[mattola]

your only as good as your defense Mooger knows

anyway I think the hype of luongo when he came in was met with an incredible season and an amazing playoffs only to lose to the strongest team the NHL has seen in about 5 years (the Ducks the year they won the cup)

that being said they missed the playoffs the next year and have been blow out 2 in a row against Chicago not all is Luongos fault but he is part to blame, in the first Chicago series even moreso.

Luongos favorite player in all time is Grant Fuhr, the reason being I believe is because Fuhr was always there to make that one big save to change the flow of the game no matter if he gave up 6 goals already. Yes they were the Oilers but isnt that what you want your goalie to do even if its 5-4 for your team? or even 4-4? sure you let in 4 or 5 goals but you still have that shot to win the game and you need to make that save bigtime. Luongo did that against the Kings in the first round with the behind the back arm sweep. that goal goes in and maybe the Kings win that series. he couldnt do that at all against Chicago both years.

Luongo IS overrated but not by my standards, he is overrated with the way he has positioned himself on this team and in this league. That doesnt mean he is not one of the better goalies in the NHL but you still have to win in the playoffs. and the playoffs dont always means the best goalies get in

who was in net in the Finals this year?

 

[dash]

Jay Bouwmeester should be on this list. For the amount of dough he's making up in Calgary, and the amount of hype that surrounded him during his FA time, I'm not that impressed with him.

He needs to have a huge bounce back year, he started to get more engaged with the offense towards the end of the season. Coach Sutter said he stressed too much defensive play last year and that hurt the offense, but the proof will be in the pudding.

 

[mattola]

He needs to have a huge bounce back year, he started to get more engaged with the offense towards the end of the season. Coach Sutter said he stressed too much defensive play last year and that hurt the offense, but the proof will be in the pudding.

Dash do you think it had something to do with Dion as well? It seems to me he was moved part to shake it up and part because he was a disturbance. With Jay-Bo being the big Man on campus now do you think he will play to that? or crumble more in that role?

 

[dash]

Dash do you think it had something to do with Dion as well? It seems to me he was moved part to shake it up and part because he was a disturbance. With Jay-Bo being the big Man on campus now do you think he will play to that? or crumble more in that role?

Well, if you ask Robyn Regehr, he would probably say he's still the big man on campus (even though he's being paid 2.5 million less). If you look around the league, all successful teams have defensemen actively engaged in the offensive zone, and Jay-Bo needs to be that guy this season. Lord knows he has the wheels to catch more forwards if he's caught pinching deep, I think he just needs the approval of the coaching staff to get more involved in the offense.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I fail to see how an offensive defenseman with 68 goals over the course of the last three years, 137 assists as well as a +69 rating can be considered overrated...but what do I know.

maybe he is overrated as a power-play quarterback. I mean he only had 36 goals and 67 assists on the PP over the same time period. Kind of weak.

Do people expect Paul Martin and Milan Michalek or Anton Volchenkov for that matter to be offensive juggernauts?

How about, Kovalchuk or Malkin. Are they lesser players because they do not hit?

I mean, the kid is the most dynamic offensive defenseman in the game, by a mile. He is a special talent, and his offensive ability is absurd. I fail to see where there is any argument here.

Let me get this straight though....

If you are a defensive defenseman, nobody jumps on you for being bad offensively.

If you are a sniper, nobody gets on you for defensive weaknesses.

If you are a shut down, defensive forward, nobody attacks your offensive stats.

HOWEVER

If you are an offensive defenseman, your defensive game (which is not that bad for Green) is fair game.....


Whatever....

I would bet that fans of ANY team would love that kind of production from the point......

 

[filosofy29]

I fail to see how an offensive defenseman with 68 goals over the course of the last three years, 137 assists as well as a +69 rating can be considered overrated...but what do I know.

maybe he is overrated as a power-play quarterback. I mean he only had 36 goals and 67 assists on the PP over the same time period. Kind of weak.

Do people expect Paul Martin and Milan Michalek or Anton Volchenkov for that matter to be offensive juggernauts?

How about, Kovalchuk or Malkin. Are they lesser players because they do not hit?

I mean, the kid is the most dynamic offensive defenseman in the game, by a mile. He is a special talent, and his offensive ability is absurd. I fail to see where there is any argument here.

Let me get this straight though....

If you are a defensive defenseman, nobody jumps on you for being bad offensively.

If you are a sniper, nobody gets on you for defensive weaknesses.

If you are a shut down, defensive forward, nobody attacks your offensive stats.

HOWEVER

If you are an offensive defenseman, your defensive game (which is not that bad for Green) is fair game.....


Whatever....

I would bet that fans of ANY team would love that kind of production from the point......

So no then?

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

So no then?

Ha, this is a lash at the authors of the article, not you guys. To me the discussion goes something like this:

Is Mike Green the best offensive defenseman in the game? Yes

Is he a flash in the pan or has he been at all inconsistent in his production? No

How much does he make? 5.25 mil

Is that exorbitant? No

Therefore, dot dot dot, how can he be "overrated". In fact, you could probably skip questions 2 through 4, because if he is the best at what he does, how can he really be overrated?

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Ha, this is a lash at the authors of the article, not you guys. To me the discussion goes something like this:

Is Mike Green the best offensive defenseman in the game? Yes

Is he a flash in the pan or has he been at all inconsistent in his production? No

How much does he make? 5.25 mil

Is that exorbitant? No

Therefore, dot dot dot, how can he be "overrated". In fact, you could probably skip questions 2 through 4, because if he is the best at what he does, how can he really be overrated?

There is a large contingent (myself included) that believes that a Norris candidate should excel in the defensive aspects of the game. There is also a large contingent that believes that Mike Green does not excel in the defensive aspects of the game, at least not to the extend that he should warrant Norris consideration. I believe that's where the overrated label comes from.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

There is a large contingent (myself included) that believes that a Norris candidate should excel in the defensive aspects of the game. There is also a large contingent that believes that Mike Green does not excel in the defensive aspects of the game, at least not to the extend that he should warrant Norris consideration. I believe that's where the overrated label comes from.

Who has ever labelled him as a defensive d man. Certainly nor him or his fans or the press. He is what he is and he is the best in the world at that.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Who has ever labelled him as a defensive d man. Certainly nor him or his fans or the press. He is what he is and he is the best in the world at that.

I know. What I'm saying is, any time a "fourth forward" gets a Norris nomination, they tend to get scrutinized a bit harder.