Any reason for concern about Harbaalke relationship?

[Smalls]

This hasn't gotten much publicity, but over the last day or so I've seen a bunch of mentions about the Harbaugh/Baalke relationship dynamic being "tense". Maybe it's nothing, but a few people really seem to be playing up some degree of tension between the two. I have no issues with the GM determining the final roster, or with differing to an offensive minded coach on certain positions (QB being the most obvious). If that's the only thing that has lead to any tension, then fine. People are bound to have disagreements, especially those with strong personalities.

No one seems to be elaborating on the issue, beyond the 3rd string QB rotation this year (and possibly Harbaugh suggesting the front office pays every veteran, like Goldson/Whitner). I'm just a little uncomfortable with some of the comments people have made since Kawakami wrote on the subject of their relationship.

Here's the original article: 49ers creative tension: The complex, competitive and winning Jim Harbaugh-Trent Baalke relationship | Talking Points

Seth Wickersham:

From what I've heard over the past few years, "creative tension" is putting it kindly.

Mike Sando:

I think in general it's not a good sign when it becomes known the GM liked certain players while the coach liked other guys.

49ers can be their best with HC and GM on same page.

 

[badazzk9]

This hasn't gotten much publicity, but over the last day or so I've seen a bunch of mentions about the Harbaugh/Baalke relationship dynamic being "tense". Maybe it's nothing, but a few people really seem to be playing up some degree of tension between the two. I have no issues with the GM determining the final roster, or with differing to an offensive minded coach on certain positions (QB being the most obvious). If that's the only thing that has lead to any tension, then fine. People are bound to have disagreements, especially those with strong personalities.

No one seems to be elaborating on the issue, beyond the 3rd string QB rotation this year (and possibly Harbaugh suggesting the front office pays every veteran, like Goldson/Whitner). I'm just a little uncomfortable with some of the comments people have made since Kawakami wrote on the subject of their relationship.

Here's the original article: 49ers creative tension: The complex, competitive and winning Jim Harbaugh-Trent Baalke relationship | Talking Points

Seth Wickersham:

From what I've heard over the past few years, "creative tension" is putting it kindly.

Mike Sando:

I think in general it's not a good sign when it becomes known the GM liked certain players while the coach liked other guys.

49ers can be their best with HC and GM on same page.

I would like to know what guys they are talking about either it be whom they drafted/didn't draft or players on the team.

 

[CalamityX11]

Aj jenkins

 

[badazzk9]

Aj jenkins

I am sure he is one but there must be more.

 

[Jikkle]

I would imagine not every coach and GM are on the same page about every player so the question is if they aren't seeing eye to eye more often than they should be.

Because the way I see it there really isn't a ton of things that Baalke has done that Harbaugh could really complain about. Sure you have AJ Jenkins and probably Brandon Jacobs but it's hard to imagine the coaches have 0 influence on who Baalke picks in the draft.

So we'll have to see what happens in the future and what information comes out before being able to get a true feel of what's happening.

 

[Chamoanlad]

I'd say LaMichael James was probably one. I think the 2012 draft was where the biggest disagreements came about. It probably basically broils down to Harbaugh wanting certain types of guys (big physical type of players just like he had at Stanford) and Baalke wanting other types of players. Neither AJ Jenkins, LaMichael James, or any other "finesse" type player fits Harbaugh's profile. I don't think Eric Wright is a finesse player, but I think that was a total Baalke call too.

There are probably other small things that continue to get on Baalke's nerves like Harbaugh saying everyone should be paid (Goldson, Dawson, etc), him working with his brother to swing the Boldin trade (though that's saved our season, Baalke probably wasn't thrilled Harbaugh is making deals), and they probably disagree on stuff behind the scenes as well.

I think both have proven to be very good at what they do. I think at the end of the day both know they need each other to succeed. It's going to be up to Jed to walk the fine line and keep both of them happy and to keep the relationship from souring.

 

[deep9er]

This hasn't gotten much publicity, but over the last day or so I've seen a bunch of mentions about the Harbaugh/Baalke relationship dynamic being "tense". Maybe it's nothing, but a few people really seem to be playing up some degree of tension between the two. I have no issues with the GM determining the final roster, or with differing to an offensive minded coach on certain positions (QB being the most obvious). If that's the only thing that has lead to any tension, then fine. People are bound to have disagreements, especially those with strong personalities.

No one seems to be elaborating on the issue, beyond the 3rd string QB rotation this year (and possibly Harbaugh suggesting the front office pays every veteran, like Goldson/Whitner). I'm just a little uncomfortable with some of the comments people have made since Kawakami wrote on the subject of their relationship.

Here's the original article: 49ers creative tension: The complex, competitive and winning Jim Harbaugh-Trent Baalke relationship | Talking Points

Seth Wickersham:

From what I've heard over the past few years, "creative tension" is putting it kindly.

Mike Sando:

I think in general it's not a good sign when it becomes known the GM liked certain players while the coach liked other guys.

49ers can be their best with HC and GM on same page.

yes, there is a concern.

we all have our own levels of concern, but it has to be there whenever there are people working together. even at our own jobs (or past jobs for some), there are "office issues" to some degree.
Jed must TRY to keep it at a low level, granted way easier said than done. he also has to plan ahead in case this blows up.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

Everyone knows Harbaugh is an extremely intense person and quite passionate regarding his job. Extreme A Type personalities can be hard to work with because of how opinionated and self assured they are. I imagine Harbaugh is no different. In his short time with the Niners he has already alienated multiple players that have landed in his dog house and were subsequently released or left of their own volition once the offseason arrived. Heck, we know he's irritated at least 2 different coaches - Pete Carroll and Jim Schwartz - so I really wouldn't be surprised if he gets on Baalke's nerves, and especially so if Baalke believes that Harbaugh is stepping on his toes/trying to bulldoze him in regard to personnel decisions.

I'm not super excited that this has seemingly happened so fast (IMO 2.5 years seems like a short time frame to have pissed off the GM), but I'm not completely disheartened because everyone knows that winning heals most, if not all wounds in the NFL. Harbaugh has proven that he is a winner and that 90% of the players buy into his vision as of this season, so I think both men will be professional enough to work through any differences they have, and will continue to learn how to work with one another if only because both must have respect for the work the other has done in the name of putting the team in a position to win week in and week out.


Also, we're talking about a Tim Kawakami article, and the man is kind of a jackass. IMO Kawakami is about 1 tier above Grant Cohn.

 

[Jikkle]

Everyone knows Harbaugh is an extremely intense person and quite passionate regarding his job. Extreme A Type personalities can be hard to work with because of how opinionated and self assured they are. I imagine Harbaugh is no different. In his short time with the Niners he has already alienated multiple players that have landed in his dog house and were subsequently released or left of their own volition once the offseason arrived. Heck, we know he's irritated at least 2 different coaches - Pete Carroll and Jim Schwartz - so I really wouldn't be surprised if he gets on Baalke's nerves, and especially so if Baalke believes that Harbaugh is stepping on his toes/trying to bulldoze him in regard to personnel decisions.

I'm not super excited that this has seemingly happened so fast (IMO 2.5 years seems like a short time frame to have pissed off the GM), but I'm not completely disheartened because everyone knows that winning heals most, if not all wounds in the NFL. Harbaugh has proven that he is a winner and that 90% of the players buy into his vision as of this season, so I think both men will be professional enough to work through any differences they have, and will continue to learn how to work with one another if only because both must have respect for the work the other has done in the name of putting the team in a position to win week in and week out.


Also, we're talking about a Tim Kawakami article, and the man is kind of a jackass. IMO Kawakami is about 1 tier above Grant Cohn.

Brings to mind the Jim Trotter article about Harbaugh and the Texas job.

Jim Harbaugh a reported potential candidate for Texas job | The MMQB with Peter King

• Control

At the college level Harbaugh would have complete control over the program; in San Francisco the final authority rests with general manager Trent Baalke. The men haven’t always been on the same page, but their relationship has worked because they respect each other, and because Baalke has made a point of deferring to the coach in certain situations.

Anyone who has watched Harbaugh on the sideline or seen a GIF of his intense emotional outbursts can deduce that he’s tightly wound when it comes to football, and multiple people who’ve worked with him have told me privately over the years that he can be difficult. They didn’t say it was a bad experience, just that he can be difficult because he’s so intense.

So given Harbaugh's personality there likely isn't a perfect GM out there for him and if he wants to be an NFL coach he's going to have to accept the likelyhood of having to work with a GM.

If he does want full control he's likely going to have to go back to being a college coach but I don't really believe that's what he wants to do.

So again this comes down to if this is an actual issue or just a Harbaugh thing since he's on the eccentric end when it comes to coaching.

 

[Flyingiguana]

look at shanahan, great coach, excellent offensive coordinator. but horrible gm because he can't draft d.

harbaugh needs to find common ground if there's issues with baalke

 

[deep9er]

without reading any specifics on things Baalke/Harbaugh may or may not have done, hope they keep the structure status quo. don't think its a good idea to give Harbaugh all the power and essentially make him GM.

some organizations need some 'checks and balances', and IMO the 49ers are one of them.

 

[Smalls]

Here are a few more articles with comments from Jed about their relationship. This quote from him in the Branch column makes me feel a bit better.

“They collectively came to the decision that Colin was the right guy for us,” York said. “And they liked for him for different reasons. Jim is a gut-feeling kind of guy. Trent is an analytical, like everything needs to sort of fit and I’m going to make sure that everything is perfect. And I’m going to go through the analysis process.”

San Francisco 49ers ? Niner Insider Blog ? SFGate.com » In February, York detailed the ?5 percent? in Harbaugh-Baalke dynamic

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archi...ghs-never-asked-for-more-personnel-power.html

York expects to sign Harbaugh to extension after season | CSN Bay Area

 

[Smalls]

These as well:

“They both get to the same place, I’d say, 95 percent of the time,” York said. “But they take different paths to get there. And the five percent where they don’t? That’s always very entertaining to see those conversations. But they fight with each other and they push each other because they both want to win.”

Added York: “They sit down and argue things out and then they figure out what’s the best thing for the 49ers and let’s move forward. That’s really how I see this team operating in the future and in perpetuity.”

San Francisco 49ers ? Niner Insider Blog ? SFGate.com » In February, York detailed the ?5 percent? in Harbaugh-Baalke dynamic

 

[deep9er]

this makes sense, heck we ALL have at least a 5 percent difference of opinions with our own co-workers??!!

like the fact one is intuitive and the other analytical, not quite 'checks and balances', but it tends to cover more bases.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I'm not too concerned. From everything I've heard, they work well together. And the team as a whole has been successful. I could see Baalke getting a bit upset that some of his younger guys are brought along so slowly, but the coaching staff has proven - at most positions, anyway - that they can develop talent. I also don't think Harbaugh would want control over personnel. He might want more control over the roster, but I think he likes being able to be the guy who says, "We want everyone back. We love [so-and-so]." He can't do that if he's the guy deciding not to extend that player.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

I'm not too concerned. From everything I've heard, they work well together. And the team as a whole has been successful. I could see Baalke getting a bit upset that some of his younger guys are brought along so slowly, but the coaching staff has proven - at most positions, anyway - that they can develop talent. I also don't think Harbaugh would want control over personnel. He might want more control over the roster, but I think he likes being able to be the guy who says, "We want everyone back. We love [so-and-so]." He can't do that if he's the guy deciding not to extend that player.

Agree 100%.

I take Harbaugh's "extend everybody!" comments with a grain of salt because I look back at how he handled Alex Smith, especially when Alex Smith could throw a near backbreaking INT late in the 4th, and Harbaugh would still talk about how Alex make "all the throws." I definitely think he likes to be the rah-rah type that always publicly supports his players as long as he deems them to be giving their all and not stirring up trouble.

 

[purguy12]

They are fine. I wouldn't be worried. Both parties want to be here for a long time.

 

[sjballer03]

Everyone knows Harbaugh is an extremely intense person and quite passionate regarding his job. Extreme A Type personalities can be hard to work with because of how opinionated and self assured they are. I imagine Harbaugh is no different. In his short time with the Niners he has already alienated multiple players that have landed in his dog house and were subsequently released or left of their own volition once the offseason arrived. Heck, we know he's irritated at least 2 different coaches - Pete Carroll and Jim Schwartz - so I really wouldn't be surprised if he gets on Baalke's nerves, and especially so if Baalke believes that Harbaugh is stepping on his toes/trying to bulldoze him in regard to personnel decisions.

I'm not super excited that this has seemingly happened so fast (IMO 2.5 years seems like a short time frame to have pissed off the GM), but I'm not completely disheartened because everyone knows that winning heals most, if not all wounds in the NFL. Harbaugh has proven that he is a winner and that 90% of the players buy into his vision as of this season, so I think both men will be professional enough to work through any differences they have, and will continue to learn how to work with one another if only because both must have respect for the work the other has done in the name of putting the team in a position to win week in and week out.


Also, we're talking about a Tim Kawakami article, and the man is kind of a jackass. IMO Kawakami is about 1 tier above Grant Cohn.

This. Kawakami's main goal is to stir shit up.

 

[deep9er]

This. Kawakami's main goal is to stir shit up.

that is the goal of most writers, imagine if no one did it at all?

 

[sjballer03]

that is the goal of most writers, imagine if no one did it at all?

I've been reading his stuff for 20+ years now. He stands out in a bad way in my opinion.