Andy Dalton is still the quarterback

[BurrowDeep2Chase]

How many top 10? I'd say 2 or 3. But in the next few years a lot of the top guys could very well be retiring. Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Ben are all getting up there.

And by that time Dalton will be that age. Bring in another young guy and we will just go through the last 4 years all over again. Say we do draft an eventual elite quarterback. We would have to wait 4-5 years to find out he is elite and by then we would be screaming for a new quarterback.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Elite QB's set their presence pretty quick. Only once in a while does it take a QB to grow into that elite QB over a 4-5 year period.

 

[BurrowDeep2Chase]

Elite QB's set their presence pretty quick. Only once in a while does it take a QB to grow into that elite QB over a 4-5 year period.

Well Manning and Dalton's numbers are strikingly similar their first 4 years. What about Manning showed he was elite those first 4 years?

 

[BurrowDeep2Chase]

Ben was nothing spectacular, see his 3rd season. Brees was quickly replaced in San Diego

 

[alf8478]

Brees is overrated

 

[cincygrad]

Well Manning and Dalton's numbers are strikingly similar their first 4 years. What about Manning showed he was elite those first 4 years?

And the era was much different..... Manning was 2nd team all pro in his second year in the league. He was near the top of the passing statistics with his early career stats, while Dalton was squarely in the middle. And Mora's defense was horrible - Dalton's defense has been good since he's been here.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Also, the expected ceiling of Manning was always way, way, WAY higher than the expected ceiling of Dalton.

Manning just had more tools, better arm (at that time) and better talent. He reads defense worlds better than Dalton, and knows how to hit his WR's in stride and as they are breaking open.

To me, the biggest issue for Dalton is that he's simply too slow in reading the defense, especially on deep passes. By the time he realizes AJ is going to be 1-1 and open, AJ is already approaching the limit of where Andy can hit him in stride.

The stats may be similar, but the projection for their careers, and talent, couldn't be further apart.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Well Manning and Dalton's numbers are strikingly similar their first 4 years. What about Manning showed he was elite those first 4 years?

Maybe the fact that Manning was on a team with considerably less talent around him starting off. His decision making, leadership, arm strength are all beyond what Dalton's is, plus his accuracy downfield was way beyond Dalton. Also, what someone else said, the ERA was different, as when Manning broke into the league, the league was still in a transition to a passing type league, but it had not approached what it is today. Half a moron could throw for 4000 yards now a days, ie: Dalton.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Andy's our only hope once again. McCarron can't stay healthy, Johnson just isn't very good.

so we hang on to our seats and hope that Dalton has improved since his last playoff disaster.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Maybe the fact that Manning was on a team with considerably less talent around him starting off. His decision making, leadership, arm strength are all beyond what Dalton's is, plus his accuracy downfield was way beyond Dalton. Also, what someone else said, the ERA was different, as when Manning broke into the league, the league was still in a transition to a passing type league, but it had not approached what it is today. Half a moron could throw for 4000 yards now a days, ie: Dalton.

That is very well put. I don't know why people keep bringing up that article from a year ago. Dalton is either due to improve, or take a step back. If people think he is Manning or Rodgers then they don't watch much football.

 

[BurrowDeep2Chase]

And the era was much different..... Manning was 2nd team all pro in his second year in the league. He was near the top of the passing statistics with his early career stats, while Dalton was squarely in the middle. And Mora's defense was horrible - Dalton's defense has been good since he's been here.

So what are you saying? It was easier for Manning to enter the league at the time he did? If Manning entered the league today and put up the same numbers where would that put him? Would we be raving about him saying he was going to grow to be elite? I highly doubt it. Or do you think that if Manning entered the league today he would have a better first 4 years.

And yes this is a different era. College is not spitting out NFL ready quarterbacks like they used to. Quarterbacks are playing a different game in college. What makes a good college quarterback does not make a good NFL quarterback and more and more college teams have moved towards the scrambling, option quarterbacks over the last 10 years. Meaning less and less pocket passing quarterbacks are being built in college. Look how many more elite quarterbacks entered the league 10 years ago. When these guys retire we may see a return to the 90s, because they aren't being made any more.

Manning had the weapons, he had Hall of famer Marshall Faulk his rookie year. He had two time hall of famer finalist Marvin Harrison for those first four years and beyond. Edgerrin James replaced Faulk and ran for 1500 yards and 13 TDs in Mannings 2nd year. Marcus Pollard wasn't too shabby.

I am not saying that Dalton is the next Manning either. Not even close to saying that. I just question why anyone would want to startover. Their is so little upside. If you rank Dalton among all of the quarterbacks drafted over the last 5 years am sure Dalton would find himself near the top of the heap. There are a lot more worse quarterbacks below him. Maybe we can be like the Jaguars and spend two first round picks on QBs over the next 5 years looking for a new QB or copy the Browns strategy.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

So what are you saying? It was easier for Manning to enter the league at the time he did? If Manning entered the league today and put up the same numbers where would that put him? Would we be raving about him saying he was going to grow to be elite? I highly doubt it. Or do you think that if Manning entered the league today he would have a better first 4 years.

And yes this is a different era. College is not spitting out NFL ready quarterbacks like they used to. Quarterbacks are playing a different game in college. What makes a good college quarterback does not make a good NFL quarterback and more and more college teams have moved towards the scrambling, option quarterbacks over the last 10 years. Meaning less and less pocket passing quarterbacks are being built in college. Look how many more elite quarterbacks entered the league 10 years ago. When these guys retire we may see a return to the 90s, because they aren't being made any more.

Manning had the weapons, he had Hall of famer Marshall Faulk his rookie year. He had two time hall of famer finalist Marvin Harrison for those first four years and beyond. Edgerrin James replaced Faulk and ran for 1500 yards and 13 TDs in Mannings 2nd year. Marcus Pollard wasn't too shabby.

I am not saying that Dalton is the next Manning either. Not even close to saying that. I just question why anyone would want to startover. Their is so little upside. If you rank Dalton among all of the quarterbacks drafted over the last 5 years am sure Dalton would find himself near the top of the heap. There are a lot more worse quarterbacks below him. Maybe we can be like the Jaguars and spend two first round picks on QBs over the next 5 years looking for a new QB or copy the Browns strategy.

Completely saying the opposite of that and yes, I do believe Manning would have had even better number his first 4 years if he started in this ERA versus the one he started in. Yeah, he had Faulk for a year and James, he had Harrison, etc. Do you remember his offensive line by chance? He was lucky to get a pass off as a rookie.

Dalton is not without his positives. During the regular season at 1pm on Sunday, Dalton is as good as anybody. The second any prime time light comes on (Thursday, Sunday Night, Monday Night, Playoffs) the guy is a basket case. He can barely complete a pass, is a turnover machine, doesn't appear to be much of a leader and doesn't show much fight when getting down.

If you ever expect anyone here to ever change their mind about Dalton, you had better hope he starts winning a few playoff games. Until he can prove everyone wrong, including the pundits, Dalton will be looked at as a problem, not a solution.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'll still argue that it boils down to this:

The raw talent was always evident with Manning.

Dalton...not so much.

 

[cincygrad]

So what are you saying? It was easier for Manning to enter the league at the time he did? If Manning entered the league today and put up the same numbers where would that put him? Would we be raving about him saying he was going to grow to be elite? I highly doubt it. Or do you think that if Manning entered the league today he would have a better first 4 years.

And yes this is a different era. College is not spitting out NFL ready quarterbacks like they used to. Quarterbacks are playing a different game in college. What makes a good college quarterback does not make a good NFL quarterback and more and more college teams have moved towards the scrambling, option quarterbacks over the last 10 years. Meaning less and less pocket passing quarterbacks are being built in college. Look how many more elite quarterbacks entered the league 10 years ago. When these guys retire we may see a return to the 90s, because they aren't being made any more.

Manning had the weapons, he had Hall of famer Marshall Faulk his rookie year. He had two time hall of famer finalist Marvin Harrison for those first four years and beyond. Edgerrin James replaced Faulk and ran for 1500 yards and 13 TDs in Mannings 2nd year. Marcus Pollard wasn't too shabby.

I am not saying that Dalton is the next Manning either. Not even close to saying that. I just question why anyone would want to startover. Their is so little upside. If you rank Dalton among all of the quarterbacks drafted over the last 5 years am sure Dalton would find himself near the top of the heap. There are a lot more worse quarterbacks below him. Maybe we can be like the Jaguars and spend two first round picks on QBs over the next 5 years looking for a new QB or copy the Browns strategy.

Manning was fabulous in his second year -- Look at where he appears in the passing stats:

1999 NFL Leaders and Leaderboards | Pro-Football-Reference.com

He was also fabulous in his third year. Look where he appears:

1999 NFL Leaders and Leaderboards | Pro-Football-Reference.com

He had a lousy year in 2001 - The team had a lousy year. Most agreed that it was time for a change. They made a coaching change and Dungy turned the program around.

Relative to the league (the way you should judge stats), Dalton wasn't close to what Manning was in his first few seasons. And Manning gave folks plenty of reason to believe he was a superstar.... Dalton hasn't given anyone any indication of this. It's a silly comparison and it should stop.

 

[futballiscool]

Manning was fabulous in his second year -- Look at where he appears in the passing stats:

1999 NFL Leaders and Leaderboards | Pro-Football-Reference.com

He was also fabulous in his third year. Look where he appears:

1999 NFL Leaders and Leaderboards | Pro-Football-Reference.com

He had a lousy year in 2001 - The team had a lousy year. Most agreed that it was time for a change. They made a coaching change and Dungy turned the program around.

Relative to the league (the way you should judge stats), Dalton wasn't close to what Manning was in his first few seasons. And Manning gave folks plenty of reason to believe he was a superstar.... Dalton hasn't given anyone any indication of this. It's a silly comparison and it should stop.

Manning and the Colts poor season in 2001 also was probably impacted by an injury. They lost 7 of 8 games in the middle of the season after Manning had his jaw broken on a helmet to helmet hit. It's amazing he didn't miss a start but his play suffered and he carried the pre-Dungy teams

 

[DanBengalfan]

Manning has rarely been surrounded by the kind of talent that Dalton gets to be surrounded by. There's really little to no excuse for Dalton, he's a poor man's Matt Ryan.

 

[kramer1]

Andy Dalton is a fucking bum. The sooner he's gone the better.

 

[BurrowDeep2Chase]

Manning was fabulous in his second year -- Look at where he appears in the passing stats:

1999 NFL Leaders and Leaderboards | Pro-Football-Reference.com

He was also fabulous in his third year. Look where he appears:

1999 NFL Leaders and Leaderboards | Pro-Football-Reference.com

He had a lousy year in 2001 - The team had a lousy year. Most agreed that it was time for a change. They made a coaching change and Dungy turned the program around.

Relative to the league (the way you should judge stats), Dalton wasn't close to what Manning was in his first few seasons. And Manning gave folks plenty of reason to believe he was a superstar.... Dalton hasn't given anyone any indication of this. It's a silly comparison and it should stop.

Yes there was some crazy competition at Quarterback those years. That position was really deep like it is today. 34 year old Steve Beuerlien lead the league in passing yards that year in his 1st season of playing 16 games. The top 10 also included the likes of Brad Johnson, Elvis Grbac, Jon fricken Kitna and Doug Flutie. Manning really had some steep competition at quarterback back then. And even back then it happens to be that most of the top QBs are over 30 or approaching it. Showing that the odds of having an elite("relative to the league") quarterback under 30 was just as slim back then as it is now.

 

[BurrowDeep2Chase]

He was barely able to get a pass off as a rookie even though the Colts Pass Block finished #1 in Adjusted Sack Rate

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | OFFENSIVE LINES 1998

 

[Anointed One]

This is probably his last year where he's guaranteed the starting gig... If he doesn't improve, I can see the Bengals take another QB in the draft early on...