Analysis: Starting Pitching Should Have Been A Bigger Priority

[Lake Shore Drive]

Ya think?????????????

White Sox: Starting Pitching Should Have Been A Bigger Priority

 

[msgkings322]

Ya think?????????????

White Sox: Starting Pitching Should Have Been A Bigger Priority

Why? It's not time yet. Next year is the year. They will sign at least one stud starter, like the Astros did when they were ready and signed Verlander.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Why? It's not time yet. Next year is the year. They will sign at least one stud starter, like the Astros did when they were ready and signed Verlander.

They could have tried to sign one of those vets on a one or two year deal. As overall crappy as we have played, there could have been a push for a playoff spot this year. With even a modicum of consistent pitching, we'd at least be in the race, especially considering that our bats have really improved from previous years.

 

[msgkings322]

They could have tried to sign one of those vets on a one or two year deal. As overall crappy as we have played, there could have been a push for a playoff spot this year. With even a modicum of consistent pitching, we'd at least be in the race, especially considering that our bats have really improved from previous years.

Trust the process. They are doing it right.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Trust the process. They are doing it right.

One thing we're in agreement on, and that is beginning next year, we will see a White Sox team that will be battling for the playoffs, maybe even the Central Division outright. And our fortunes will improve every year thereafter for at least the next half dozen or so seasons.

 

[msgkings322]

One thing we're in agreement on, and that is beginning next year, we will see a White Sox team that will be battling for the playoffs, maybe even the Central Division outright. And our fortunes will improve every year thereafter for at least the next half dozen or so seasons.

Agreed, the window starts next year and should last for 3-4 years if they do it right. Twins and Indians will still be there too. Twins are maybe a year farther along in their rebuild.

 

[idseer]

Ya think?????????????

White Sox: Starting Pitching Should Have Been A Bigger Priority

well now ... how long ago did i say this?
41 or 42 free agent pitchers and the signed the 2nd from the worst guy.

 

[idseer]

One thing we're in agreement on, and that is beginning next year, we will see a White Sox team that will be battling for the playoffs, maybe even the Central Division outright. And our fortunes will improve every year thereafter for at least the next half dozen or so seasons.

i absolutely do NOT agree with this! this team is still owned by the biggest fuckups in baseball in reinsdork and
williams.
they WILL find a way to fuck it up!

 

[WindyCityCoug]

Why? It's not time yet. Next year is the year. They will sign at least one stud starter, like the Astros did when they were ready and signed Verlander.

Here is the BIG ISSUE with that thought process ..... this winter, there will NOT be shit for Free agent SP like the past two winters, and the couple there might be (like a Strasburg) will be over-priced, and the cheap ass KennyHahnna will not offer enough - and/or the couple top SP out there will NOT want to come to southside (ala Manny).

the FA winters are a changing, you see lots of teams sewing up players ahead of time, especially SP, so the Sox will not have many choices, if any, for anybody better than a #5 Nova type.

IF they are really not cheap like they claim (they are lying to us), but so we can assume they wanna spend some $$, their BEST chances for a Top of the rotation SP for 2020 - '22 ..... SIGN Kuechel after June 4th (you guys know why to wait for 6/4), and sign him for 3 or 4 years, pay him whatever, pay him some of the Manny $$.
as he will be the Sox's Lester for the final part of Rebuild to actual Winning transition.... and if all goes well, he is only age 29, can always sign him to extension down the road - Just like Lester did.

But, the cheap bastards will not do this, and then this winter KennyHahnna will whine and bitch and cry when no SP's are either available nor willing to sign with the Sox (again just like Manny).

Best idea now - go get Kuechel, for 3 or 4 years, and his final year or 2 of the first new sox contract at least he is helping a team at or above .500 hopefully.

a 2020 of Cease, kopech, Kuechel, Giolito, and whomever at #5 is not horrible.,
But you need the age 29 veteran, who has WON a WS, has won Huge games, has won Cy Youngs.
He would mentor the kids, a veteran who has seen it all, especially late October big games.

 

[msgkings322]

Here is the BIG ISSUE with that thought process ..... this winter, there will NOT be shit for Free agent SP like the past two winters, and the couple there might be (like a Strasburg) will be over-priced, and the cheap ass KennyHahnna will not offer enough - and/or the couple top SP out there will NOT want to come to southside (ala Manny).

the FA winters are a changing, you see lots of teams sewing up players ahead of time, especially SP, so the Sox will not have many choices, if any, for anybody better than a #5 Nova type.

IF they are really not cheap like they claim (they are lying to us), but so we can assume they wanna spend some $$, their BEST chances for a Top of the rotation SP for 2020 - '22 ..... SIGN Kuechel after June 4th (you guys know why to wait for 6/4), and sign him for 3 or 4 years, pay him whatever, pay him some of the Manny $$.
as he will be the Sox's Lester for the final part of Rebuild to actual Winning transition.... and if all goes well, he is only age 29, can always sign him to extension down the road - Just like Lester did.

But, the cheap bastards will not do this, and then this winter KennyHahnna will whine and bitch and cry when no SP's are either available nor willing to sign with the Sox (again just like Manny).

Best idea now - go get Kuechel, for 3 or 4 years, and his final year or 2 of the first new sox contract at least he is helping a team at or above .500 hopefully.
a 2020 of Cease, kopech, Kuechel, Giolito, and whomever at #5 is not horrible.,
But you need the age 29 veteran, who has WON WS, has won Cy Youngs.
He would mentor the kids, a veteran who has seen it all, especially late October big games.

Keuchel is not a bad call but don't be so sure the Sox will cheap out next year. They know it's time to go big. Their offense is looking pretty good so they didn't necessarily NEED Machado the way they need that one experienced stud SP.

So sure get Keuchel but then get another ace type (Keuchel isn't really that anymore). They should be ready to spend big for ths window, starting next year.

 

[DJ]

Why? It's not time yet. Next year is the year. They will sign at least one stud starter, like the Astros did when they were ready and signed Verlander.

Np. Just no.

 

[WindyCityCoug]

Keuchel is not a bad call but don't be so sure the Sox will cheap out next year. They know it's time to go big. Their offense is looking pretty good so they didn't necessarily NEED Machado the way they need that one experienced stud SP.

So sure get Keuchel but then get another ace type (Keuchel isn't really that anymore). They should be ready to spend big for ths window, starting next year.

i hear ya, BUT even if they wanna spend $$ on SP next winter, there will be next to none available, and the couple MadBum's or Strasburgs' out there will pull a Manny and look at our organization as a trainwreck,....for FA signings, it takes two to tango, and as Manny debacle taught us, the Sox are similar to the Bulls as most top FA's see the sox as a disaster, and last resort for FA destinations.

Hate to say it, their best way to get a top 1 or 2 SP will be a trade - one of the young hitters for a young guy - Braves are deep in young SP's, it will have to be a young hitter (not a robert, Madrigal, Eloy), but one of the next levels like a zack collins and Rutherford for a Newcombe or someone young from a team like Atlanta.
They will go this route, and of course save $$ in the process.

 

[idseer]

i hear ya, BUT even if they wanna spend $$ on SP next winter, there will be next to none available, and the couple MadBum's or Strasburgs' out there will pull a Manny and look at our organization as a trainwreck,....for FA signings, it takes two to tango, and as Manny debacle taught us, the Sox are similar to the Bulls as most top FA's see the sox as a disaster, and last resort for FA destinations.

Hate to say it, their best way to get a top 1 or 2 SP will be a trade - one of the young hitters for a young guy - Braves are deep in young SP's, it will have to be a young hitter (not a robert, Madrigal, Eloy), but one of the next levels like a zack collins and Rutherford for a Newcombe or someone young from a team like Atlanta.
They will go this route, and of course save $$ in the process.

you see, the last time the sox were in a similar position and decided to trade youth for a good starter they traded what is now the nation's no. 1 or 2 prospect in fernando tatis jr. for james shields. if anyone thinks they've learned 'learned their lesson' they are out of their minds.

they blew it THIS year! and i'd bet dollars to donuts it was williams' doing. he's a dead weight around the neck of our team and because the idiot owner values nice guys to quality baseball people it's not going to change.

 

[WindyCityCoug]

you see, the last time the sox were in a similar position and decided to trade youth for a good starter they traded what is now the nation's no. 1 or 2 prospect in fernando tatis jr. for james shields. if anyone thinks they've learned 'learned their lesson' they are out of their minds.

they blew it THIS year! and i'd bet dollars to donuts it was williams' doing. he's a dead weight around the neck of our team and because the idiot owner values nice guys to quality baseball people it's not going to change.

lol, I know the Tatis deal is the Lou Brock trade of our era.
But here is the issue - That is all talent evaluation. They went full retard with that deal.

Those idiots 5 yrs ago blew it with Shields, but many of us saw that at the time as horrendous, most GM's (and armchair GMs like us) would have never made that idiotic deal. Shields was never more than a #4 or 5 type, an innings eater. at the time, they did not even need him.

That gets to the KennyHahnna factor, do these retards know what they are doing?
keeping the geriatric cooper til he is age 80? the Tatis deal,
but they did go get Eloy and Cease for Q., fleecing Theo ..... but Theo has his own issues, since 2016 title Theo has made some horrible decisions.

We need to remember this, just cause 5 yrs ago they made awful decisions (tatis), does not mean they should be scared of their own shadows now. But I agree they have to evaluate talent (other teams' and their own) much, much better, which they have lacked years ago. The new player development/ scouting guys led by Getz seems better; the recent drafts are better, so maybe they are turning the corner from the Tatis/ shields dark ages.

Whether it is Kuechel or trades for young arms with an Atlanta team, they have to do something, as a TJ bad arm Kopech, a Cease and a Giolito will not lead you to a division crown by themselves. They need a veteran, or another top 2 or 3 arm at least.

 

[idseer]

lol, I know the Tatis deal is the Lou Brock trade of our era.
But here is the issue - That is all talent evaluation. They went full retard with that deal.

Those idiots 5 yrs ago blew it with Shields, but many of us saw that at the time as horrendous, most GM's (and armchair GMs like us) would have never made that idiotic deal. Shields was never more than a #4 or 5 type, an innings eater. at the time, they did not even need him.

That gets to the KennyHahnna factor, do these retards know what they are doing?
keeping the geriatric cooper til he is age 80? the Tatis deal,
but they did go get Eloy and Cease for Q., fleecing Theo ..... but Theo has his own issues, since 2016 title Theo has made some horrible decisions.

We need to remember this, just cause 5 yrs ago they made awful decisions (tatis), does not mean they should be scared of their own shadows now. But I agree they have to evaluate talent (other teams' and their own) much, much better, which they have lacked years ago. The new player development/ scouting guys led by Getz seems better; the recent drafts are better, so maybe they are turning the corner from the Tatis/ shields dark ages.

Whether it is Kuechel or trades for young arms with an Atlanta team, they have to do something, as a TJ bad arm Kopech, a Cease and a Giolito will not lead you to a division crown by themselves. They need a veteran, or another top 2 or 3 arm at least.

how is their recent draft history better?

 

[idseer]

the percentage of good picks by the sox probably works out about the same as a ten year old's would have been. MOST have been horrendous failures anderson in 2013 appears to be the last successful pick and he took 5 years to develop! before him it was sale in 2010 and before him .... well you have to go back to the 90's to find any quality. don't bother pointing out madrigal, burger etc as they haven't panned out yet. only time will tell. and it's still williams for some god forsaken reason.

 

[WindyCityCoug]

how is their recent draft history better?

well I am being generous, and yes assuming Madrigal not only pans out, but is the real deal.
so far in the minors, Madrigal is on a rapid rise.

He was star in college, and a team leader, clubhouse leader type.
think Dansby swanson / Pedrioa type,

i know Burger and his injuries have slowed his progress, badly.

In 3 weeks, on June 3., they Pick #3.

You guys should read details on Bobby Witt Jr., Adley Rutschmann C, and an Andrew Vaughn.
They cannot miss on this pick, as it might be the final Top 5 pick for next several years.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

In 3 weeks, on June 3., they Pick #3.

You guys should read details on Bobby Witt Jr., Adley Rutschmann C, and an Andrew Vaughn.
They cannot miss on this pick, as it might be the final Top 5 pick for next several years.

Check out my post back in March as to who we should take with the #3 pick:

Our way-too-early first pick for the June draft

Rutschman is a goner. He's been pretty much the consensus #1 pick for the entire year. Good hitting/great game calling & handling catchers are the new black in today's GM wish lists. I think it's a slam dunk that the O's take him with the first pick. The only question is whether or not the Royals will go with the more long term Witt Jr, who is the consensus #2 pick in the draft, or go with the more MLB-ready Vaughn. I'm getting an ever-sneaking hunch that they'll go with Vaughn. Hope I'm wrong. With rumors of the Sox exploring a trade for Abreu or him signing elsewhere after this season in his walk year, it would be a no brainer to take Vaughn if he's still on the board.

 

[richig07]

well I am being generous, and yes assuming Madrigal not only pans out, but is the real deal.
so far in the minors, Madrigal is on a rapid rise.

He was star in college, and a team leader, clubhouse leader type.
think Dansby swanson / Pedrioa type,

i know Burger and his injuries have slowed his progress, badly.

In 3 weeks, on June 3., they Pick #3.

You guys should read details on Bobby Witt Jr., Adley Rutschmann C, and an Andrew Vaughn.
They cannot miss on this pick, as it might be the final Top 5 pick for next several years.

Madrigal has slugged .356 in the minors so far. I still like the pick, but "rapid rise"? I don't mean to be harsh, but the kid has been a punch and judy .261 High-A ball hitter. With a grand total of 1 HR and 17 extra base hits in 323 minor league plate appearances.

We all have high hopes for the kid, but come on now... He has quite a ways to go before we tout him as anything even resembling a successful top 5 overall draft pick.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Madrigal has slugged .356 in the minors so far. I still like the pick, but "rapid rise"? I don't mean to be harsh, but the kid has been a punch and judy .261 High-A ball hitter. With a grand total of 1 HR and 17 extra base hits in 323 minor league plate appearances.

We all have high hopes for the kid, but come on now... He has quite a ways to go before we tout him as anything even resembling a successful top 5 overall draft pick.

I have to agree here. I had really high hopes for a successful career in the bigs with this kid, and by no means am I thinking otherwise at the present. But he has gotten off to a slower start than many, including me, expected. He's still a really good defensive player, still does a great job at not whiffing. But his overall hitting so far is not up to snuff, certainly not for the majors. It's an ever-so-slight possibility that we'll see him in September, but more likely he won't be up here until sometime in 2020 or even 2021.