ALL THINGS SUH

[gandydancer]

I'll be the first one on here to apologize for my rants if his deal doesnt exceed that idiotic projection by a fair amount. There is no reason in the world for him to sign a deal like that this year, none.

Does anyone on here seriously believe this deal wouldnt already be done if they could sign him for less than they pay him now? Get serious.

If his agent is any good at all the first thing he would have told the Lions is to not even bring forth an offer where he isnt the highest paid DT in the league and at a premium to what he is paid now. Then leave the room or hang up the phone.

I dont doubt at all that he could get a $13m/yr deal in the open market from all the teams who have plenty of cap space. And that is without the huge negotiating leverage he has against the Lions. The only part of that article worth a shit is the first paragraph talking about how the Lions have been playing with fire with all the contract restructing.

I was more interested in the comparision of other DT and such. I scoffed at the projected contract also.
Still insight on the contract situation. Not from you, so therefore sorry it must be totally offbase and offer nothing but one small sentence.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

We can pretty much stop trying to compare the other top DT contracts as a barometer for what Suh is going to get.

Think about the Larry Fitzgerald contract for a minute. No I am not comparing a WR to a DT, I am talking about contract escalation. Does anyone remember the Fitzgerald signing? Who was the next highest paid WR at the time of that deal? If memory serves it was Andre Johnson, having signed a deal averaging a little under $9.7m/yr. The very next year Fitzgerald signs one averaging more than $16.1m. And that is what is very likely going to happen here. Suh's contract is going to be the Fitzgerald deal for DT's.

Detroit has nothing whatsoever to leverage themselves a deal that is near to market value and with every passing day the position of the Suh camp gets even stronger. Doesnt anyone else find it odd that a guy saying he wants to be here long term and win, a guy elected captain last year, wouldnt be pushing his agent do get a deal done when the team is in such a position that they cant even sign their first rd pick. Does that sound like the actions of a guy who wants to be here and a captain? Or does it sound like the position of a guy who knows he can force the Lions to pretty much give him whatever he wants or just walk away to greener pastures after this season?

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I was more interested in the comparision of other DT and such. I scoffed at the projected contract also.
Still insight on the contract situation. Not from you, so therefore sorry it must be totally offbase and offer nothing but one small sentence.

I wasnt directing anything at you or the post of the article. Not at all. Sorry if you took it that way. I was laughing at the article itself. I should not have used the Quote option in my reply where it might have appeared I was directing anything your way. My bad.

An article trying to use a linear regression analysis to figure out a contract based on other current contracts is simply ridiculous. That was the only point I was trying to make. That and I don't think the projection is even in the vacinity of accurate.

 

[broncosmitty]

If Suh was only asking for 10.5 mil a year with 28 mil guaranteed, he would already be signed.

Hard for to believe its just dollars and cents that's to blame for Suh not being locked up for years. I have a feeling he'd like to win football games while he gets paid.

 

[gandydancer]

I wasnt directing anything at you or the post of the article. Not at all. Sorry if you took it that way. I was laughing at the article itself. I should not have used the Quote option in my reply where it might have appeared I was directing anything your way. My bad.

An article trying to use a linear regression analysis to figure out a contract based on other current contracts is simply ridiculous. That was the only point I was trying to make. That and I don't think the projection is even in the vacinity of accurate.

My bad...sorry I indeed take it 110% wrong. At least I gave it 110% though

 

[gandydancer]

We can pretty much stop trying to compare the other top DT contracts as a barometer for what Suh is going to get.


Detroit has nothing whatsoever to leverage themselves a deal that is near to market value and with every passing day the position of the Suh camp gets even stronger. Doesnt anyone else find it odd that a guy saying he wants to be here long term and win, a guy elected captain last year, wouldnt be pushing his agent do get a deal done when the team is in such a position that they cant even sign their first rd pick. Does that sound like the actions of a guy who wants to be here and a captain? Or does it sound like the position of a guy who knows he can force the Lions to pretty much give him whatever he wants or just walk away to greener pastures after this season?

IMO the only leverage they have is...I am not sure he can get 16 mill on open market. We can all speculate he would. Most teams with huge cap space are NOT immediate contenders and just one DT away. Then you factor in whether they run 4-3 or 3-4 does he fit in.

For me a guy demands 2-4 million a year above top contract when he is head and shoulders above competition. He is not stat wise...Even though his talent on Lions can not be replaced by one guy, does his money bring in 2 or 3 other guys that build up talent in multiple positions?

As much as don't want him gone. His 10 dead money mill eats up cap raise next year, but his 13-16 mill salary next year brings in multiple guys.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I'll be the first one on here to apologize for my rants if his deal doesnt exceed that idiotic projection by a fair amount. There is no reason in the world for him to sign a deal like that this year, none.

Does anyone on here seriously believe this deal wouldnt already be done if they could sign him for less than they pay him now? Get serious.

If his agent is any good at all the first thing he would have told the Lions is to not even bring forth an offer where he isnt the highest paid DT in the league and at a premium to what he is paid now. Then leave the room or hang up the phone.

I dont doubt at all that he could get a $13m/yr deal in the open market from all the teams who have plenty of cap space. And that is without the huge negotiating leverage he has against the Lions. The only part of that article worth a shit is the first paragraph talking about how the Lions have been playing with fire with all the contract restructing.

This is the part I don't get. Why do guys automatically assume that they get a raise on their next contract? Suh already has the largest contract given to a DT. He doesn't get a raise just because. The market sets the amount of $$ he'll get, not his current contract. He can maintain status quo and still be the highest paid DT in the league...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Didn't we go through pretty much this EXACT same situation last year with Stafford? His contract needed to be extended, it didn't happen before free agency, we weren't going to have enough $$ to sign anybody at all... didn't happen before the draft... the sky was falling then too and the "realists" were all predicting the worst.

Then he signed an extension in July and suddenly all of those predicting the end of times were nowhere to be heard...

 

[broncosmitty]

I was WAAAY more pissed AFTER he signed last summer than I was before. Not similar to me this go round.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

This is the part I don't get. Why do guys automatically assume that they get a raise on their next contract? Suh already has the largest contract given to a DT. He doesn't get a raise just because. The market sets the amount of $$ he'll get, not his current contract. He can maintain status quo and still be the highest paid DT in the league...

Would we at least be in agreement that the absolute best the Lions could possibly hope for is a deal set by the current market rate? So why is it that no deal is done?

I gave you the example of the Fitzgerald contract. A new contract always sets a new market rate, they never just fall in line. If they did contracts would move up very, very slowly, that isnt happening at any value position. They are sky rocketing upward and Suh's will likely be the contract that moves the DT position.

If the Lions arent going to pay him a significant premium he isnt going to sign and extention with us. Why in the world would he? Do you think that he would not get more $ as a FA with 32 teams in play for his services or just the one team (us)? Thats's Econ 101, supply and demand. He will simply wait us out until he either gets that premium or goes FA next offseason where he should certainly get a very lucrative deal.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Didn't we go through pretty much this EXACT same situation last year with Stafford? His contract needed to be extended, it didn't happen before free agency, we weren't going to have enough $$ to sign anybody at all... didn't happen before the draft... the sky was falling then too and the "realists" were all predicting the worst.

Given that I am the self proclaimed President of the "Realist" party I will take that to be clearly directed my way since everyone on here (including you) is aware of my stance on that topic.

From a guy who consistently tells other posters that they are spin doctoring statements in an attempt to bolster their point of view that statement would be truly ironic if it even made an ounce of sense.

The statements you reference in regards to saying that we would not have enough $ to sign anyone were all prefaced that without restructuring even more deals nobody new would get signed. That's a pretty damn big omission to have left out. Did you pay close enough attention to last offseason to see what happened or only who we managed to sign?? Cause we restructured both Suh and CJ's contracts to free up the $ that signed those free agents. Once again just kicking the can a little further down the road.

Since those restructures took place in March there was no hurry at all on getting a new deal done for Stafford. That pretty much renders the premise of your post as incorrect and the content renders the remainder of it as worthless and inaccurate.

This year the Lions used the cap increase to give you Tate and the resigning of Pettigrew. Were it not for that increase the Lions would have done what without a new deal done for Suh????? If your guess was to restructure CJ's contract again, as well as likely Bush and Quin you would be correct. That is what they do, over and over again.

Then he signed an extension in July and suddenly all of those predicting the end of times were nowhere to be heard.

I don't recall where I EVER disappeared or backed off my stance that this is a shit run team by clowns who don't know a fucking thing about managing $$. They freed up $11.2m with those restructured deals. Some of that went to rookie contracts, some to tender offers, some to one year deals, and some to free agents. By the time the rookies, tenders, and one year deals were removed there wasn't much left. So how do you sign the FA's? That's easy, just kick that fucking can a little further. The combined annual average of the Quin and Bush deals is $8.7m. Yet last year they only cost $4.05m. This year they cost $9.5m. It's that easy and its just a continuation of the problem. You let us all know if you come up with a way out of cap hell that involves the continuation of our current strategy cause I sure as heck cant figure it out.

 

[themuzzer]

Given that I am the self proclaimed President of the "Realist" party I will take that to be clearly directed my way since everyone on here (including you) is aware of my stance on that topic.

From a guy who consistently tells other posters that they are spin doctoring statements in an attempt to bolster their point of view that statement would be truly ironic if it even made an ounce of sense.

The statements you reference in regards to saying that we would not have enough $ to sign anyone were all prefaced that without restructuring even more deals nobody new would get signed. That's a pretty damn big omission to have left out. Did you pay close enough attention to last offseason to see what happened or only who we managed to sign?? Cause we restructured both Suh and CJ's contracts to free up the $ that signed those free agents. Once again just kicking the can a little further down the road.

Since those restructures took place in March there was no hurry at all on getting a new deal done for Stafford. That pretty much renders the premise of your post as incorrect and the content renders the remainder of it as worthless and inaccurate.

This year the Lions used the cap increase to give you Tate and the resigning of Pettigrew. Were it not for that increase the Lions would have done what without a new deal done for Suh????? If your guess was to restructure CJ's contract again, as well as likely Bush and Quin you would be correct. That is what they do, over and over again.

I don't recall where I EVER disappeared or backed off my stance that this is a shit run team by clowns who don't know a fucking thing about managing $$. They freed up $11.2m with those restructured deals. Some of that went to rookie contracts, some to tender offers, some to one year deals, and some to free agents. By the time the rookies, tenders, and one year deals were removed there wasn't much left. So how do you sign the FA's? That's easy, just kick that fucking can a little further. The combined annual average of the Quin and Bush deals is $8.7m. Yet last year they only cost $4.05m. This year they cost $9.5m. It's that easy and its just a continuation of the problem. You let us all know if you come up with a way out of cap hell that involves the continuation of our current strategy cause I sure as heck cant figure it out.

Let's be real here, I'm the proclaimed realist here, I started this shit a long time ago and now actually have some guys on board. Meow, you are the most vocal and most knowledgeable about the money issues. We all knew it was coming, you're just very good at getting in depth with concrete figures......

I started the whole Realist movement and the Homers and Kool-Aid drinkers never wanted to hear it. I stuck around to see it out......The pain train is coming and it's coming in the way of Cash!....This year will just be another push the problem back just one more year to try and save Managments Jobs. Even if the Lions produce this year it's not going to change the financial problems.

A real dose of Reality is coming to this franchise. Don't get me wrong, Right now I have the Lions roster at 8-8 right now depending on what happens this summer, but next year the armored bank trucks are going to be backing into Allen Park and demanding the money back from athletes that want contracts or want to leave.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Meow

He's gone. All that is left is the bitter and pissed off Dr. Evil-er.

Let's be real here, I'm the proclaimed realist here, I started this shit a long time ago and now actually have some guys on board

Realist, always negative, troll, hater, whats the difference? Somebody has to lead so I'll retain my title as president of the club for now. You can challenge in the mid-season election if you want.

 

[themuzzer]

He's gone. All that is left is the bitter and pissed off Dr. Evil-er.


Realist, always negative, troll, hater, whats the difference? Somebody has to lead so I'll retain my title as president of the club for now. You can challenge in the mid-season election if you want.

Sorry buddy, I can't let my title go away. I've been fighting to retain it for far too long. If you like you can have Negative, troll, or hater, but Realist is mine.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Realists... grumpy assed old men... it's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Let's be real here, I'm the proclaimed realist here, I started this shit a long time ago and now actually have some guys on board.

We are different types of realists. You are a realist in theory on more opinion based items. I deal soley in facts. I dont pull out my realist card when talking about a weak back 7, or wasted draft picks, etc. I try to remember to premise all of those with the proverbial IMO because I dont know how they actually will perform. They may very well surprise or pan out to be excellent players.

However, our past record or our cap situation, or saying its too early to guarantee a playoff spot, etc. Those are always true to the numbers, simple and un-opinionated facts. Thats what reality is....1: the quality or state of being real 2: something real 3: the totality of real things and events.

You can head up the Theory Realists and I'll take the Fact Realists.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Realists... grumpy assed old men... it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Homers, optimists, unrealistic nut jobs.....crazy ass dreamers living in fantasy land....its all in the realm of reality.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I want to hear your predictions on what his new contract will look like. How much, how long, signing bonus, guaranteed $, etc.

If we have a thread about predicting our W/L record we can certainly have some fun with predicting Suh's new contract.

Don't worry Suh lovers, I have no doubt he will get a new contract. This front office is already on thin ice and in job preservation mode. If the joke that is the Lions franchise doesnt want them anymore their days working in football are over wtih cause nobody is going to hire them elsewhere. They cant just let him walk and expect to keep their jobs short of winning the SB this year. He will get a new deal, no matter how ridiculous the value of it might be.

So what are your guesstimates?

 

[themuzzer]

Suh takes a 5 year league minimum and is hailed as the second coming of Christ for the state of Michigan.

 

[gandydancer]

Homers, optimists, unrealistic nut jobs.....crazy ass dreamers living in fantasy land....its all in the realm of reality.

Okay so what you are saying is "The Soo" is fantasy land?