AL Central Smack Talk

[TrustMeIamRight]

And for those talking about the Tigers payroll numbers. After the raises are given out to the arbitration eligible players, as well as some of the players they have signed already. Detroit's payroll will be right around the same place they were in 2013.

I think it will be quite entertaining to watch the Tigers in 2014, as they are going to have a completely different look. Instead of a station to station softball team. They will have some players who can run mix in with some power and they should be light years better defensively.

The key to Detroit's season is going to be Castellanos at 3rd base and how quickly he can adapt to MLB pitching. They can get by with a soft hitting Iglesias as SS, but you don't want multiple holes in your lineup, especially at 3rd base.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

And for the record -- I absolutely HATED the fister trade. He was one of my favorite pitchers to watch on the Tigers. The way he can move the ball to either side of the plate and up/down is awesome to watch. When you think of strikeout pitchers -- you don't think of a pitcher like Doug Fister, but my favorite game he pitched, he set the AL record for most strikeouts in a row, by striking out the entire Kansas City lineup in a row (9) -- Missing out on the MLB record of 10 in a row by 1.

 

[da55bums]

Dombrowski already stated -- Detroit had 15 pitchers in the minor leagues they had scouted which they wanted as a centerpiece in a package if they dealt Fister. Robbie Ray was one of the 15. The Nationals put together the best package and including Robbie Ray.

Yes DD produced a "list" after the fister trade and "announced" it, to cover his ass and explain why he got nothing in the deal...he didn't "announce" it before the trade? has he "announced" lists after previous trades? I am sure he is bright enough to not give out a list after the trade without one of the players, who he got in the trade, actually off the list.

I don't know much about the guy -- he struggled in high-A ball in 2012, but in 2013, they made a change in his mechanics and he added a couple MPH to his fastball and averaged over 10 k's per 9 and had a 3.36 ERA in high A and double A with an 11-5 record.

his walks were 3.9 per 9, his 2013 was his 3rd year in A ball and his half season at AA he had a 1.328 whip. 2012, not even close to struggled, he was flat out horrible...in A ball..a 6.56 era, 1.68 whip, 122 hits in 102 innings and 1 walk for every 2 innings pitched...oh and 4-12..again in A BALL...Just to show the rest of the stats that don't paint the pretty picture portrayed.

Everything I have read reminds of the same things I read about Max Scherzer, except he is left handed. I am NOT saying he is Max Scherzer or will be good like Max Scherzer, but the scouting report on him reads almost the same. Mid 90's fastball, solid secondary pitches, but has trouble repeating his delivery, which leads to walks.

lol, Max...why? why did you even put his name out there. I will just leave the use of Max out because its something Dougie would use and think of. " Mid 90's fastball, solid secondary pitches but has trouble repeating his delivery which leads to walks"....do you actually know HOW many pitchers this exact same line is used on, including HS pitchers, holy crap, it might be the scouts version of "Just trying to help the team win"

Detroit was able to correct the delivery issues with Scherzer, so maybe Dombrowski feels Detroit can do the same with Robbie Ray. Who knows? Detroit fans won't know how the trade works until/IF, Robbie Ray makes his way to the MLB.

Detroit fans do know how this trade will work out, the smart ones already know how bad a trade that was, to just dump a quality player for nothing in return to save money, to sign a closer....hell Fister could probably close better than 15 out 30 who start the season who lose their jobs by the all star break to the end of the season.

For any Tigers fan to justify the Fister trade, good freakin luck...DD did a great job of getting rid of Fielder when he needed to but this trade was just plain stupid and he knows it because he "gave out a list" to back himself up, lol.

and Nick wouldn't be the 2nd hole in the lineup behind Inglesis unless I missed deals for Catcher and/or a LFer, as well as the Tigers banking on father time to not meet Hunter or VMart.

So freakin glad I took you off ignore, thought you went to hide in the Tigers Board, but alas you appeared bearing a gift (or 3 wise posts) on christmas eve, of all days, for the AL Central fans, even some Tigers fans to appreciate Dougie Sr in action.

I, for one, thank you for the gift sir and a merry christmas to you too.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

lol, Max...why? why did you even put his name out there. I will just leave the use of Max out because its something Dougie would use and think of. " Mid 90's fastball, solid secondary pitches but has trouble repeating his delivery which leads to walks"....do you actually know HOW many pitchers this exact same line is used on, including HS pitchers, holy crap, it might be the scouts version of "Just trying to help the team win"

I love making you look stupid -- it is so much fun.

First off -- Here is exactly what I posted:

I am NOT saying he is Max Scherzer or will be good like Max Scherzer, but the scouting report on him reads almost the same. Mid 90's fastball, solid secondary pitches, but has trouble repeating his delivery, which leads to walks.

Second -- Max Scherzer averaged 3.7 walks per 9 in his minor league career, with a high of 4.9 walks per 9 in his 1st year of Double A. THAT is why I said it reminds me of Scherzer.

Third -- Like Scherzer, they changed Ray's mechanics and it added 2-3 MPH to his fastball this year, just like what happened to Scherzer. THAT is why I said it reminds of what I read when Scherzer came to Detroit.

Fourth -- Like Scherzer, they said he has had trouble repeating his delivery, which is why Scherzer, less than 3 seasons ago was sent to Minor leagues by Detroit for 2 starts, until they figured out how to fix it. I think he has worked out just fine for Detroit.

Lastly -- I will put this in bold, so maybe you will get it thru your thick skull:

I am NOT saying he is Max Scherzer or will be good like Max Scherzer, but the scouting report on him reads almost the same. Mid 90's fastball, solid secondary pitches, but has trouble repeating his delivery, which leads to walks.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Actually this one should be my last statement for the previous post, since you can't seem to read:

And for the record -- I absolutely HATED the fister trade.

 

[burfboy]

Got to love the maturity level around here. You got one Tiger fan who gets off by reporting people - even makes threads about it. Then we have Mr. Maturity here with one of the lamest comments I have seen in a long, long time. Throw in Mr. Negativity (cleaves), and you have a solid core of Tiger fans to draw from here.

But burf...you go ahead and slap the monkey....you sure got me with that remark. geez

you got it all Iffy.....

 

[da55bums]

I love making you look stupid -- it is so much fun.

First off -- Here is exactly what I posted:


Second -- Max Scherzer averaged 3.7 walks per 9 in his minor league career, with a high of 4.9 walks per 9 in his 1st year of Double A. THAT is why I said it reminds me of Scherzer.

Third -- Like Scherzer, they changed Ray's mechanics and it added 2-3 MPH to his fastball this year, just like what happened to Scherzer. THAT is why I said it reminds of what I read when Scherzer came to Detroit.

Fourth -- Like Scherzer, they said he has had trouble repeating his delivery, which is why Scherzer, less than 3 seasons ago was sent to Minor leagues by Detroit for 2 starts, until they figured out how to fix it. I think he has worked out just fine for Detroit.

Lastly -- I will put this in bold, so maybe you will get it thru your thick skull:

I am NOT saying he is Max Scherzer or will be good like Max Scherzer, but the scouting report on him reads almost the same. Mid 90's fastball, solid secondary pitches, but has trouble repeating his delivery, which leads to walks.

lol, its what you DON"T post that makes you look stupid, like all the stats...since we are name calling....

and again..,,"mid 90's fastball, solid secondary pitches, but has trouble repeating his delivery, which leads to walks" is used a TON for many pitchers from HS all the way to MLB....most people don't put them near the same names as Cy Young winners, but i stand corrected, Tigers fans do.

I can't even believe that Max and Robbie Ray are even being talked about in the same thread, just unbelievable, your so homer that Simpson sued you for copyright infringment. So when did Max have a year like Robbie did in 2012...he NEVER came CLOSE, highest era 3.91 not over 6 like Ray...get back on the Tigers Board where they think your smart and always right...lol

I like Max but another moronic comment from a tiger fan just makes you want to dislike the tigers players, sorry max for being compared to a scrub more similar to johnathan sanchez than you but thats what your "fans" do, Ray already a Cy Young canidate, Jackkkkson the best leadoff hitter in the game, Avila one of the best catchers in the game, Inglesis for Garcia a great trade when the tigers could have gotten defensive ss with no bat anywhere and kept Garcia...

Thats 2 out of 3 stupid trades by the great DD over the last 8 months, DD is actually taking the Tigers chances and slowly helping shut their window to win.


Does the bold, slanted and underlined make you actually get it.

 

[da55bums]

lol, Max...why? why did you even put his name out there. I will just leave the use of Max out because its something Dougie would use and think of. " Mid 90's fastball, solid secondary pitches but has trouble repeating his delivery which leads to walks"....do you actually know HOW many pitchers this exact same line is used on, including HS pitchers, holy crap, it might be the scouts version of "Just trying to help the team win"

will show you what I posted also, nah, nah, nah, then you go and try to justify saying the name Max...incredible, beyond incredible.

 

[da55bums]

the gift that keeps on giving, thank you again.

 

[jalopy]

Thats 2 out of 3 stupid trades by the great DD over the last 8 months, DD is actually taking the Tigers chances and slowly helping shut their window to win.

The Iglesias trade was a stupid trade? Really? What was Detroit supposed to do down the stretch run last year without Peralta? Time will tell if Garcia can even hang in the bigs but Iglesias' glove is top five in the league.

The Fister trade was a bad one when looked at in a vacuum but when you consider the money saved, it makes a little more sense. A lot will depend on Ray's development, if any. I loved watching Fister pitch and he will be missed. I think he could have been even better with an improved defense.

Regardless, it would be a monumental upset if the Tigers were to be replaced at the top of the division.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

The Iglesias trade was a stupid trade? Really? What was Detroit supposed to do down the stretch run last year without Peralta? Time will tell if Garcia can even hang in the bigs but Iglesias' glove is top five in the league.

The Fister trade was a bad one when looked at in a vacuum but when you consider the money saved, it makes a little more sense. A lot will depend on Ray's development, if any. I loved watching Fister pitch and he will be missed. I think he could have been even better with an improved defense.

Regardless, it would be a monumental upset if the Tigers were to be replaced at the top of the division.

Monumental? That is pretty strong... This is some cute homer talk you got going. Yes, the Tigers are the favorites, but to pretend it is a "monumental upset" that they are upended is comical. A monumental upset would be more along the lines of the Astros winning the AL West; or the Marlins winning the NL East. How is trading off 6 million or so in Fister ( kind of good I am sure you know) for Krol, a utility player, and a pitching prospect the Tigers FO seem to like more than most logical? You know who would have made more sense to trade? Scherzer and his 6.4 War. To give you an idea what his price tag might be right now, Kershaw had a War of 6.5... have fun with that. To give you an idea in a market that seems to have atleast 1 war= 6 million with the national TV contracts causing a great deal of inflation.

Well, 6.4*6 = 38.4

Oh my, if Scherzer gets his way, he will get 35 million per year or more in theory. Pony up Illitch, Scherzer is hungry for your money. I would hope that new curveball of his allows him to keep this up or the Tigers look really stupid with throwing all of this money at Scherzer if that is really their plan.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

lol, its what you DON"T post that makes you look stupid, like all the stats...since we are name calling....

and again..,,"mid 90's fastball, solid secondary pitches, but has trouble repeating his delivery, which leads to walks" is used a TON for many pitchers from HS all the way to MLB....most people don't put them near the same names as Cy Young winners, but i stand corrected, Tigers fans do.

I can't even believe that Max and Robbie Ray are even being talked about in the same thread, just unbelievable, your so homer that Simpson sued you for copyright infringment. So when did Max have a year like Robbie did in 2012...he NEVER came CLOSE, highest era 3.91 not over 6 like Ray...get back on the Tigers Board where they think your smart and always right...lol

I like Max but another moronic comment from a tiger fan just makes you want to dislike the tigers players, sorry max for being compared to a scrub more similar to johnathan sanchez than you but thats what your "fans" do, Ray already a Cy Young canidate, Jackkkkson the best leadoff hitter in the game, Avila one of the best catchers in the game, Inglesis for Garcia a great trade when the tigers could have gotten defensive ss with no bat anywhere and kept Garcia...

Thats 2 out of 3 stupid trades by the great DD over the last 8 months, DD is actually taking the Tigers chances and slowly helping shut their window to win.


Does the bold, slanted and underlined make you actually get it.

Are you really this ignorant? You pick and choose a couple comments leaving out the fact "I HATED THE FISTER TRADE" and "I AM NOT COMPARING HIM TO MAX SCHERZER OR SAYING HE WILL BE AS GOOD AS MAX SCHERZER". You then surround your entire argument around these two points. Does that make sense to you?

Show me where I said he was going to be a Cy Young candidate? Show me where I said he was going to end up like Max Scherzer? ALL I SAID IS -- his SCOUTING REPORT reads the same as Max Scherzer's did when we traded for him in the Granderson deal and MAYBE the Tigers see something in his delivery they can fix.

You talk about Ray's walks in the minor and say he was 3.9 in 2013. Scherzer had a 3.7 walk rate per 9 in his minor league career. Ray's biggest issue according to the scouting reports is -- repeating his delivery. Scherzer's biggest issue when he came to the Tigers was -- repeating his delivery. Like Scherzer, when he struggles with arm position on his delivery, he loses MPH on his fastball. I will say ONCE AGAIN. NOWHERE did i say he was going to be Max Scherzer, NOWHERE did I say he was going to be even a solid pitcher in the MLB. The trade won't be viewed as a success or failure until Robbie Ray either pans out or flops.

And what is the 2nd bad trade the Tigers made in your eyes? Trading away Garcia and getting Iglesias in return? I'll take that all day long. How many times is a team able to get a MLB ready SS for a OF prospect? Especially a SS with the glove Iglesias has and he is only 23 years old? No one expects him to put up Peralta offensive numbers, but he will more than make up for his lack of offensive with his glove in the field.

In the end -- it doesn't matter, Detroit could trade away Anibal Sanchez too and still win the AL Central because the Central is a terrible division. Even without Fister -- Detroit still has the best starting rotation. Even without Fielder, Detroit has the best lineup. They have upgraded the bullpen and I have a feeling they will make another deal to bring in another arm for the bullpen before the season starts. When the division consists of Cleveland, Minnesota, KC and the White Sox -- you don't have to do too much to win the division right now.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

AL Central is terrible? Do people not remember the AL West, NL East, and West?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Monumental? That is pretty strong... This is some cute homer talk you got going. Yes, the Tigers are the favorites, but to pretend it is a "monumental upset" that they are upended is comical.

I agree monumental is way overboard. Detroit will still win the AL Central though. It isn't as if any of the teams in the division upgraded at all.

In the end -- Detroit still has the best lineup in the division and the best starting rotation in the division. Adding Joe Nathan to the bullpen will hopefully solidify that position and if Rondon can stay healthy -- Detroit bullpen will be much better than last year.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I agree monumental is way overboard. Detroit will still win the AL Central though. It isn't as if any of the teams in the division upgraded at all.

In the end -- Detroit still has the best lineup in the division and the best starting rotation in the division. Adding Joe Nathan to the bullpen will hopefully solidify that position and if Rondon can stay healthy -- Detroit bullpen will be much better than last year.

The Royals removed Wade Davis from the rotation, lost Santana and added Vargas, Ventura, and Duffy. The backend for the Royals was horrible last year, if it is even mediocre, it is a marked improvement for us. That is a net upgrade to me even with the Santana loss, and young players have one more year of experience in the Majors which should help in theory given that the cornerstones are mostly in their early 20's...

And the Twins most definitely upgraded their rotation and have guys coming in the farm, you are either ignorant or trolling if you claim the Central hasn't improved (outside of Cleveland). Heck, you could probably argue every team in the Central (Detroit is debatable) outside of Cleveland has had net improvements.


Edit: also, projections have KC going from having among the worst offensive RF'er and 2B play in baseball to above average. At the same time, Gordon is moved down to the middle of the order where his skills are better utilized.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

AL Central is terrible? Do people not remember the AL West, NL East, and West?

Yes -- the AL Central is terrible. No division in baseball had two teams finish 30 games below .500 like the AL Central had. Minnesota is trying this year by finally signing some pitching, but the White Sox may challenge the Astros for worst team in the MLB this year.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Yes -- the AL Central is terrible. No division in baseball had two teams finish 30 games below .500 like the AL Central had. Minnesota is trying this year by finally signing some pitching, but the White Sox may challenge the Astros for worst team in the MLB this year.

Disagree about the White Sox, they are improved (still a deep, deep, hole, but most certainly improved)


Edit: same is true of the 'Stros I suppose as well, but I think the Marlins are better contenders for this than the 'Stros or White Sox.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

And the Twins most definitely upgraded their rotation and have guys coming in the farm, you are either ignorant or trolling if you claim the Central hasn't improved (outside of Cleveland). Heck, you could probably argue every team in the Central (Detroit is debatable) outside of Cleveland has had net improvements.

Anything would be an improvement to the Twins rotation. Nolasco and Hughes are upgrades for them, but they are still going to be pitching out of position, as neither are top of the rotation pitchers, which is what they will be on Minny.

KC -- Every year we hear next year is the year for them and their young players. I compare them to the Detroit Lions. Every year is the year, because they have the young talent with a year more of experience.

Cleveland has done nothing.

Chicago has added some young pieces, but they traded away Peavy at the trade deadline, they traded away Hector Santiago and they traded away their closer Addison Reed. Their rotation consists of Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and what else?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

And I do not think Detroit has upgraded this year, sans the bullpen. I think they improved in certain aspects, like defensively and team speed, but they downgraded in the power department and their rotation won't be as strong without Fister (though they will still have the best rotation in the division anyways)

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Anything would be an improvement to the Twins rotation. Nolasco and Hughes are upgrades for them, but they are still going to be pitching out of position, as neither are top of the rotation pitchers, which is what they will be on Minny.

KC -- Every year we hear next year is the year for them and their young players. I compare them to the Detroit Lions. Every year is the year, because they have the young talent with a year more of experience.

Cleveland has done nothing.

Chicago has added some young pieces, but they traded away Peavy at the trade deadline, they traded away Hector Santiago and they traded away their closer Addison Reed. Their rotation consists of Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and what else?

I understand the sentiment about the Royals/Lions, but such attitudes are subjective (the losing is not) and I am not too interested in discussing those even in my more masochistic moods. I will instead go with conventional wisdom of the aging curve favoring a team with its cornerstones being its youngest players with less than four seasons in the Majors.

Agree about Cleveland in terms of significance of their moves, I don't see their reasoning unless Lindor is Trout at SS, lol.

I think the White Sox certainly have a troubled roster, but I put allot of stock in Eaton and Abreu going forward along with other things such as Garcia having a full season; I think it is a net upgrade ( exactly how much is up to some debate). Addison Reed was below average, Eaton is a big upgrade of Reed long term and immediately, but I suppose that is me speculating a bit.

Yes, the Twins likely still have meh rotation, but meh is better than dog poo I suppose, so they get brownie points anyways; and quite frankly, the upgrade is pretty significant over what they had before in my humble opinion.

Detroit has retooled its team, many will debate the offense is worse, the same but different, or better depending on who you ask. I am not going to touch this too much as it is a bit difficult to say at this point. My immediate inclination would have me to believe it is roughly the same or a half step behind.
What I do believe is their rotation took a hit with Fister essentially being replaced by Smyly ( who departs from the pen only to be replaced by Joba).