AL Central Smack Talk

[Cleaves2000]

Just google......miguel cabrera best right handed hitter ever.....

His stats match aaron, dimaggio and the other greats.....im not the only one saying this.....just google and see all the EXPERTS that said it......

 

[CaptO]

Just google......miguel cabrera best right handed hitter ever.....

His stats match aaron, dimaggio and the other greats.....im not the only one saying this.....just google and see all the EXPERTS that said it......

If his stats match these guys he is among the best RH hitters ever...not THE best...

 

[StanMarsh51]

Just google......miguel cabrera best right handed hitter ever.....

His stats match aaron, dimaggio and the other greats.....im not the only one saying this.....just google and see all the EXPERTS that said it......

These guys are journalists, not experts...let's be realistic here.

The obvious flaw with this is many of those guys had many more at bats, and hence a decline phase.

Cabrera has a 155 OPS+ and so did Aaron, but the obvious difference is that Aaron had twice as many games as Cabrera....so comparing someone's rate stats through 1600 games to someone with 3200 games is incredibly misleading. Aaron's something of an anomaly also given how his average dropped, but his power increased the 2nd half of his career.

Through a similar # of games, Frank Thomas had a 169 OPS+, better than Cabrera's 155. But then Thomas had a decline phase where his rate numbers fell.

Another thing to watch for is how he ages into his 30s....I was reading a study a while back on how position players with big body types tend not to age well and it was very interesting (I'll see if I can find it). And lately, we're saying Pujols and Howard fall into that category...big sized guys who are breaaking down in their 30s.

 

[Swangin]

Just google......miguel cabrera best right handed hitter ever.....

His stats match aaron, dimaggio and the other greats.....im not the only one saying this.....just google and see all the EXPERTS that said it......

Who are you referring to as experts? they are writers that are caught up in the NOW moment just like way too many sports fans these days. These same "experts" I'm sure were writing how Pujols was the best RH hitter ever a couple of years ago. Miggy hasn't even passed Pujols yet. And no, I'm talking about best hitter as of today, over their first 11 seasons in the league.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Someone on here claimed 'Cabrera's the best hitter he's ever seen,' and that Cabrera will 'probably be the best RH hitter ever'...if his career numbers at this point aren't as good as Pujols' and Thomas' at the same point, how does that make Cabrera the best hitter he's ever season?

Stan,

You do realize you are on a discussion board. This is where people post their OPINIONS. On top of that -- you are on an AL Central thread, with tons of Tiger fans, so of course, some of them are going to be biased on who they state is the best they've ever seen.

It isn't outlandish to say Cabrera is the best hitter they've ever seen though. He will be the first right handed hitter since Roger Hornsby in 1920's to win back to back to back batting titles. He has finished in the top 5 for MVP four years in a row and is basically a lock to win back to back MVPs.

In a ballpark that isn't condusive to big power numbers (ask Prince Fielder) -- Cabrera still has hit 225 homeruns in a little less than 6 seasons with Detroit. Ask Mark Trumbo how big Comerica is -- he hit a 430 foot FLYOUT against Detroit last year.

The simple fact is -- most people haven't seen a player do what Cabrera has done the last two years. In 286 games -- he has 87 homeruns and 269 RBI's with .345 BA. As I said -- this isn't a guy playing in a band box. Unless you hit a ball down the lines at Comerica -- you have to kill it to hit a homerun. 422 to dead center and 430+ in the corner where left center and centerfield meet.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Who are you referring to as experts? they are writers that are caught up in the NOW moment just like way too many sports fans these days. These same "experts" I'm sure were writing how Pujols was the best RH hitter ever a couple of years ago. Miggy hasn't even passed Pujols yet. And no, I'm talking about best hitter as of today, over their first 11 seasons in the league.

Who the greatest anything is, is nothing more than a matter of opinion. What Pujols did in St Louis was unbelievable. He deserves any recognition that came his way. With Cabrera winning the 1st triple crown in 45 years and about to become the 1st right handed hitter since Roger Hornsby to win back to back to back Batting Titles -- It is quite easy to say Cabrera is the best they have seen, as he is just now hitting his prime.

Since joining the Tigers -- he will have won 3 RBI titles, 3 batting championships and depending if he can catch Davis (which I don't think will happen), he could have 3 home run titles, he has 2 right now. He won the triple crown last year, as well as the MVP and is a virtual lock to win the MVP this year.

Those talking about wearing down after 30 -- I just don't see that happening with Cabrera, as his swing is so effortless. Playing in the AL will add quite a few years to his career and contrary to many people beliefs -- he is a workout fanatic. Alex Avila said Cabrera rides his bike 10+ miles to their workouts, goes thru the 2+ hour workout and then rides his bike 10+ miles home 5 to 6 days a week in the offseason. He has looked more and more in shape each year for the Tigers since he came over from Miami.

Now the guy on the team who worries me is Prince Fielder. But that is a completely different issue.

 

[MiamiVice]

Jealousy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just figured I would explain why all the people from other AL Central teams get mad when Tigers fans come here and talk about how good the season has been so far... and how great Miggy Cabrera is. Fact... when your team is out of the running.. or almost out... fans tend to feel a certain emotion towards fans of the team in first place...

Miggy Cabrera is the best hitter right now.. and has been hurt for more than a month. The Tigers just had one of their worst series of the season... and still didn't lose a game to second place Clev... Almost every top pitcher from last year is having a down year... yet people pile on Verlander for having an average year...

Its funny... people come here to a sports talk blog thinking they are going to get all friendly positive pats on the back about how bright their teams future is and how great they can be... and get mad when reality is brought to their attention on a thread named AL Smack Talk. This is a place to banter, discuss opinions... and fact... not just a place to give each other reach arounds to make you feel better about your teams lack of winning. People here need to take less stuff personal.. and remember this is an internet sports chat site. That being said... I have to laugh how some guys here act like 12 yr old girls about this stuff. Nothing that is posted here affects your life unless of course you have a stalker that follows you where ever they can on the internet (page 187 post refering to me and how I have been hiding here seems to show that I was being looked for.. no?)... I understand the frustration of years of losing can make one jealous.. but seriously... if all you guys want to see is posts that are false positives about the prospects of your teams futures... both this season and coming seasons... you should start a thread for that bs...

We got grown men in their 20's-60's here crying about getting called out for bandwagon jumping ( or as some people call it.. switching to their second favorite team) and bitching about fans of the team in first place bragging... seriously.... grown men...

PS... This isn't CBS... Quit crying about what happened and happens there on this site... it has no bearing here.

 

[MiamiVice]

Now the guy on the team who worries me is Prince Fielder. But that is a completely different issue.

Fielder may or may not break down.. but using what happened to some other guy to try to predict Fielders body is pointless.. medicine only gets better.. and I am sure the Tigers are not investing 20 mil a year and not doing everything they can to keep him in the lineup for as long as possible.

Somethings lend to easier predictions than others.. trying to figure out how long a guy will play.. when he has been relatively healthy for his career is not one of those... there are tons of fat guys that played into their 40's... there are tons of great athletes that flamed out early...

 

[broncosmitty]

Except multiple on here have said Cabrera could end up 'the best ever'....that's a lot more extreme than just saying 'one of the best ever,' wouldn't you agree?

Someone on here claimed 'Cabrera's the best hitter he's ever seen,' and that Cabrera will 'probably be the best RH hitter ever'...if his career numbers at this point aren't as good as Pujols' and Thomas' at the same point, how does that make Cabrera the best hitter he's ever season?

It's claims like these that tend to be homerish.

Pujols and Thomas didn't have the same type of production as Cabrera at the same age. If you're going to make a statement based off your magical bullshit stats, then atleast list them. (Please let it be Something with + in it, oh, and WAR, we all know how important those are). This thread is all about homerism also. Kind of a prerequisite.

 

[broncosmitty]

So Stubbs and Giambi might lose time in Stinktown? With Rugburn on the DL, this might be an interesting series. Addition by subtraction...

 

[broncosmitty]

These guys are journalists, not experts...let's be realistic here.

The obvious flaw with this is many of those guys had many more at bats, and hence a decline phase.

Cabrera has a 155 OPS+ and so did Aaron, but the obvious difference is that Aaron had twice as many games as Cabrera....so comparing someone's rate stats through 1600 games to someone with 3200 games is incredibly misleading. Aaron's something of an anomaly also given how his average dropped, but his power increased the 2nd half of his career.

Through a similar # of games, Frank Thomas had a 169 OPS+, better than Cabrera's 155. But then Thomas had a decline phase where his rate numbers fell.

Another thing to watch for is how he ages into his 30s....I was reading a study a while back on how position players with big body types tend not to age well and it was very interesting (I'll see if I can find it). And lately, we're saying Pujols and Howard fall into that category...big sized guys who are breaaking down in their 30s.

Hahahaha OPS+......

 

[Swangin]

Who the greatest anything is, is nothing more than a matter of opinion. What Pujols did in St Louis was unbelievable. He deserves any recognition that came his way. With Cabrera winning the 1st triple crown in 45 years and about to become the 1st right handed hitter since Roger Hornsby to win back to back to back Batting Titles -- It is quite easy to say Cabrera is the best they have seen, as he is just now hitting his prime.

Since joining the Tigers -- he will have won 3 RBI titles, 3 batting championships and depending if he can catch Davis (which I don't think will happen), he could have 3 home run titles, he has 2 right now. He won the triple crown last year, as well as the MVP and is a virtual lock to win the MVP this year.

Those talking about wearing down after 30 -- I just don't see that happening with Cabrera, as his swing is so effortless. Playing in the AL will add quite a few years to his career and contrary to many people beliefs -- he is a workout fanatic. Alex Avila said Cabrera rides his bike 10+ miles to their workouts, goes thru the 2+ hour workout and then rides his bike 10+ miles home 5 to 6 days a week in the offseason. He has looked more and more in shape each year for the Tigers since he came over from Miami.

Now the guy on the team who worries me is Prince Fielder. But that is a completely different issue.

Hey we have been fortunate to see such great hitters come along around the same time. I'm not trying to take anything away from Miggy, only thing I'm trying to bring up is when people start saying he is the best they have ever seen, I think people forget they just saw this a few years ago. 2008-2010 Pujols pretty much had better numbers across the board than Miggy's last 3 seasons.

 

[MiamiVice]

Hey we have been fortunate to see such great hitters come along around the same time. I'm not trying to take anything away from Miggy, only thing I'm trying to bring up is when people start saying he is the best they have ever seen, I think people forget they just saw this a few years ago. 2008-2010 Pujols pretty much had better numbers across the board than Miggy's last 3 seasons.

2008-2010 was not even Pujols best stretch 2003-2006 was better...

 

[MiamiVice]

Hey we have been fortunate to see such great hitters come along around the same time. I'm not trying to take anything away from Miggy, only thing I'm trying to bring up is when people start saying he is the best they have ever seen, I think people forget they just saw this a few years ago. 2008-2010 Pujols pretty much had better numbers across the board than Miggy's last 3 seasons.

Oh.. and no..Pujols numbers are not better across the board than Miggy's last three seasons.. Please post what you are talking about.. because I don't see anything across the board..

 

[StanMarsh51]

Pujols and Thomas didn't have the same type of production as Cabrera at the same age. If you're going to make a statement based off your magical bullshit stats, then atleast list them. (Please let it be Something with + in it, oh, and WAR, we all know how important those are). This thread is all about homerism also. Kind of a prerequisite.

You're right Pujols didn't have the same type of production...he had better production

Through approx 30 years old (Pujols at the end of 2010 and Cabrera right now)

Pujols - .331 AVG, .426 OBP, .624 SLG, 408 HR, 1230 RBI, 1186 R
Miggy - .321 AVG, .399 OBP, .571 SLG, 364 HR, 1253 RBI, 1056 R

Who was better? No + or WAR, but let's hear your take on how Cabrera was better than Pujols?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Oh.. and no..Pujols numbers are not better across the board than Miggy's last three seasons.. Please post what you are talking about.. because I don't see anything across the board..

I was about to post the same thing. The numbers between the two players are very comparable, but to say Pujols has better numbers across the board when Miggy has more hits, more RBI's and a better BA and still has 30 games to go in this season. So to say across the board isn't true at all.

 

[Swangin]

I was about to post the same thing. The numbers between the two players are very comparable, but to say Pujols has better numbers across the board when Miggy has more hits, more RBI's and a better BA and still has 30 games to go in this season. So to say across the board isn't true at all.

"PRETTY MUCH" across the board. Miggy has a little higher AVG, and more RBI. Pujols has a littler higher, SLG%, OBP, OPS, OPS+ HR.

 

[MiamiVice]

Hey we have been fortunate to see such great hitters come along around the same time. I'm not trying to take anything away from Miggy, only thing I'm trying to bring up is when people start saying he is the best they have ever seen, I think people forget they just saw this a few years ago. 2008-2010 Pujols pretty much had better numbers across the board than Miggy's last 3 seasons.

Are you including this year as one of Miggy's last three seasons or are you not.. because if you include this year.. your entire argument falls apart. Miggy's season this year is over all better than anything Pujols ever had up to this point... if he keeps his averages up.. he will easily hit more HR and RBI than Pujols ever did.. and doing it with a higher BA and slugging %... If you are using 2010 as one of miggy's years.. that is copping out.

 

[broncosmitty]

You're right Pujols didn't have the same type of production...he had better production

Through approx 30 years old (Pujols at the end of 2010 and Cabrera right now)

Pujols - .331 AVG, .426 OBP, .624 SLG, 408 HR, 1230 RBI, 1186 R
Miggy - .321 AVG, .399 OBP, .571 SLG, 364 HR, 1253 RBI, 1056 R

Who was better? No + or WAR, but let's hear your take on how Cabrera was better than Pujols?

No doubles? And Miggy is still 30.... Albert is like 46.

 

[MiamiVice]

Pujols had a monster career until he went to the AL... maybe its because he really is older than stated.. maybe its because of the change of league.. maybe its because of the foot... who knows.. but to be honest the year miggy is having is better than any season Pujols had... and you would have to cherry pick stats from different seasons where pujols had comparable numbers... if Miggy keeps his average above .350... and hits 5-10 more hr in the next month... he will destroy the best season Pujols ever had... he could pass up many of Pujols best season totals in the next week if healthy.. does that say anything?