AFA @ Boise

[BamaTee1]

Boise State is 6 - 1 over PAC 12 teams the last 5 years -- with only 1 of those games being played in Boise.

Boise State would do fine in the PAC but the PAC won't likely invite them anytime soon.

(Boise State is already a PAC wrestling school and Boise wins PAC conference wrestling titles)

This and all the tea in China mean exactly what? Again, you're argument doesn't hold water. TCU and Utah did pretty damn well playing ONE AQ team a year. Now not so good!

 

[WizardHawk]

The only real argument they put up is how the polls always list them high and they are always right.

Are the current polls going to be the same at years end with only a few minor changes?

NO

After 2 weeks of play we don't know enough about any of the teams to rank them with any accuracy. They are best guess picks at this point.

Mid-majors only play 2-3 games worth measuring a year. Thus ranking them is a best guess affair and not anything that resembles an accurate comparison to teams that play more real games. It really is that simple.

Look at this season for BSU. They were ranked preseason and got totally blown up by a non ranked team. They go on to do what they always do to weaker opponents including their lopsided win last night. They won't be ranked again this season based entirely on that one game. Had they won by even 1pt in their opening game and had the exact same last two games they would still be ranked around 20. Your entire body of work is largely ignored outside of those 2-3 games of any real challenge a year.

Okay, so you have won many of those rare decent games you play right? Well how many upsets are there in the early season? How many FCS teams won over decent teams this season so far? Are those FCS teams really better than the teams they beat? Or did they just play better that day?

This is why you need many games over time to be able to gauge teams with any accuracy. Mid-majors NEVER play enough to be worthy of evaluating.

This is a far cry from saying they always suck. We don't know how good they really are compared to other AQ's and never will. The AQ's should break off into their own division so that they can be compared to teams on a like path and have a different ranking for mids so they can be fairly ranked.

 

[smilesid]

Would a team that didn't play any games at all have an advantage over a team that had injuries, fatigue, and strains of 12 games going in? If you say no then just change it to also playing 12, but 10 of them being little more than scrimmage games. This just isn't that hard of a concept really. Agree or not it is real.

Were they good teams? Well yeah, they did beat some darned good teams. The question was were the roads to those games even and fair and many would say no. Deal with it.

further it by saying once you do reach an AQ that first year you face those injuries. Ask Utah about their first year in the Pac. They had devastating injuries they never had before. They weren't able to give a soft landing to any of their young kids and the next year they shared more of their recruiting grounds with teams far above them with more history than they ever did before. Those are realities my friend.

Wiz, this argument gets used over and over again, and it's still bogus.

A 12 game FBS schedule is a 12 game FBS schedule. You whine about the level of competition. But yet, most big time schools are careful to schedule bye weeks and bring in 2 or three cupcake teams to play. Every FBS school has the same number of scholarships, and supposedly recruit the same type athletes.

Yeah, yeah, I get it. You don't think that Boise exposes itself to injuries. What planet are you from? The facts fly in the face of your arguments. Boise gets weakened by injuries just as much as anyone else. But unlike you, who spent all of last season crying about it, Boise does its best to move up the second line.

Injuries are a part of the sport, and EVERY school gets them, it doesn't matter what level one plays at. Your argument is simply not sustained by fact. The real question is one of depth. One thing you conveniently ignore while making this ad nauseum argument is the one of budget. Boise does what it does with a fraction the money and lower rated recruits than the various "name" schools enjoy. When Boise wins 11 games every year, they do it against teams with similar budgets and situations. And most of the time, when they do play those bigger name schools, they are forced to do it on the road, where winning is much more difficult.

The real issue is one of budget, and the many, many advantages that all that extra money and extra home games gives a team.

I know, Wiz, never let facts get in the way of your suppositions.

 

[Boise4Life]

The only real argument they put up is how the polls always list them high and they are always right.

Are the current polls going to be the same at years end with only a few minor changes?

NO

After 2 weeks of play we don't know enough about any of the teams to rank them with any accuracy. They are best guess picks at this point.

Mid-majors only play 2-3 games worth measuring a year. Thus ranking them is a best guess affair and not anything that resembles an accurate comparison to teams that play more real games. It really is that simple.

Look at this season for BSU. They were ranked preseason and got totally blown up by a non ranked team. They go on to do what they always do to weaker opponents including their lopsided win last night. They won't be ranked again this season based entirely on that one game. Had they won by even 1pt in their opening game and had the exact same last two games they would still be ranked around 20. Your entire body of work is largely ignored outside of those 2-3 games of any real challenge a year.

Okay, so you have won many of those rare decent games you play right? Well how many upsets are there in the early season? How many FCS teams won over decent teams this season so far? Are those FCS teams really better than the teams they beat? Or did they just play better that day?

This is why you need many games over time to be able to gauge teams with any accuracy. Mid-majors NEVER play enough to be worthy of evaluating.

This is a far cry from saying they always suck. We don't know how good they really are compared to other AQ's and never will. The AQ's should break off into their own division so that they can be compared to teams on a like path and have a different ranking for mids so they can be fairly ranked.

And that's where we disagree because I believe that in most situations an undefeated mid-major would deserve a BCS game, not a title game but a BCS game. It's hard to win all of your games no matter who your competition is. If it was easy, it would happen more frequently in both AQ and non-AQ conferences alike.

 

[WizardHawk]

I know, Wiz, never let facts get in the way of your suppositions.

Nope, when you actually present a fact and not your bloated opinions I'd be happy to discuss them. You haven't presented anything here that resembles a fact.

A 12 game FBS schedule is a 12 game FBS schedule.

No it is not. That you can't agree there are differences in difficulty of even AQ teams is surprising. Add the reduced difficulty of playing podunk state 6-7 games a year and they are apples and oranges comparisons. Facts? Look at the SoS figures you like to discredit and refute. Show a fact and we can talk, but you NEVER do.

Yeah, yeah, I get it. You don't think that Boise exposes itself to injuries. What planet are you from? The facts fly in the face of your arguments.

When was the last time BSU lost 1/3 of it's starters for the season? You say you have facts to refute my point and yet I don't see any. SHOW YOUR WORK. Simply saying it is obviously wrong isn't a fact. Again, you fail.

The real question is one of depth. One thing you conveniently ignore while making this ad nauseum argument is the one of budget. Boise does what it does with a fraction the money and lower rated recruits than the various "name" schools enjoy. When Boise wins 11 games every year, they do it against teams with similar budgets and situations. And most of the time, when they do play those bigger name schools, they are forced to do it on the road, where winning is much more difficult.

Nope, not only don't I address it, but I've done so in this thread. You are once again blowing things out of your ass without reading or understanding what is being said.
YOU fail to address the advantage you have over AQ's of being able to get quality game time for your younger kids because of all of the blow outs you get vs those AQ's. That is a FACT. Your kids have much more real game experience than all but the most elite of AQ's get by the time they are called on to start.
I do love that you bring up how you win 11 vs teams of similar budget and makeup and yet still tell us that experience is equal in value to those with larger budgets and different makeup. You want it both ways and it simply doesn't work.
Do you get exposed to injury? Well duh and no one said you don't. Are you going to tell us you have had as many injures facing Air force as you would even an average AQ school? You know, those schools you admit have larger and more physical athletes. The spinning logic you require to pull off your rhetoric is amazing.

The real issue is one of budget, and the many, many advantages that all that extra money and extra home games gives a team.

No, that has nothing to do with the question of whether or not mids should be ranked and rated equally to AQ's. It is a different question. The only way it relates at all is to go to our idea that your level should be on its own where it can be even with its peers.
As I already said when your mids come up to play in our sandbox they do get more money and they are exposed to other recruits they weren't before, but every one of your new conf rivals now get to pick off players you otherwise had before out of your backyard as well. They also now no longer get to play their freshmen in garbage time for 8 games a year and have to deal with that drop in experienced depth.

Those are facts and realities Smiles. And in several years of trying to get you to engage in real conversations about them you flat out refuse.

 

[smilesid]

Nice novel, Wiz.

Now try discussing my point, the issue of budget.

In 2010, Boise lost a number of starters to injury, which is pretty typical. Last year UW lost a few more than average, but my point stands.

Of course, a member of a major conference will play a "better" schedule, but again, most make up for this by hiring mules for their OOC games. Boise, since they play in a lower rated conference doesn't play as highly rated a schedule, but to extend this to the subject of injuries is simply not supported by evidence. Hell, I ended my career way back when on a meaningless play when I was clipped by some third stringer after the whistle on a kickoff. I blew my knee, and while I tired to come back, the body wouldn't let me. Would it have been more "impressive" had I been leveled by an All American? Injuries happen. Sure, in a big game, playing all out, maybe the odds increase slightly, but the argument is simply not supported by what actually happens in real games.

 

[ida one]

Wis is just a wanna be sports caster and can't get past the fact that he don't know squat about Boise St. He thinks he's the one that knows everything that goes on behind Boise St's closed doors. Let it go, he's a hot air baloon

 

[WizardHawk]

Nice novel, Wiz.

Now try discussing my point, the issue of budget.

In 2010, Boise lost a number of starters to injury, which is pretty typical. Last year UW lost a few more than average, but my point stands.

Of course, a member of a major conference will play a "better" schedule, but again, most make up for this by hiring mules for their OOC games. Boise, since they play in a lower rated conference doesn't play as highly rated a schedule, but to extend this to the subject of injuries is simply not supported by evidence. Hell, I ended my career way back when on a meaningless play when I was clipped by some third stringer after the whistle on a kickoff. I blew my knee, and while I tired to come back, the body wouldn't let me. Would it have been more "impressive" had I been leveled by an All American? Injuries happen. Sure, in a big game, playing all out, maybe the odds increase slightly, but the argument is simply not supported by what actually happens in real games.

I'd be happy to discuss your agenda Smiles, but it doesn't speak to anything I said. You keep claiming I don't like facts and yet you don't present any.

You continue to say AQ's have tougher schedules, but make up for it (or in your case, down for it) by scheduling cupcakes in their OOC. First of all BSU's OOC isn't murders row of tough competition. Yours isn't any better than ours. Second you aren't for a moment saying they actually balance out are you? Do you REALLY think the fluff some AQ's have in OOC really makes it equal to what you have overall? I really can't believe you are saying that so please clear that up for us.

Wis is just a wanna be sports caster and can't get past the fact that he don't know squat about Boise St. He thinks he's the one that knows everything that goes on behind Boise St's closed doors. Let it go, he's a hot air baloon

Who the fuck are you and what the fuck are you saying? I don't claim to know anything about BSU's behind the scenes actions, nor do I care, nor does it have anything to do with mid-majors and their overrankings. Thank you for going back under your rock while the big people talk.

 

[smilesid]

Since you are obviously drinking, get back to me when you can refrain from f bombs and Russian novels. Or is that just the way you think sober? Even more frightening. Meanwhile, cheer for the Huskies against Illinois. They seem to be less than stellar.

 

[WizardHawk]

nice cop out smiles. Expect nothing less from you.

 

[Black Belt Disciple]

nice cop out smiles. Expect nothing less from you.

Haha, total burn.