A Penny Signed is a Penny ......?

[msgkings322]

I'm using 'physically' as in physics. His velocity is lower than it used to be, in the physical world. He's learning a new Maddux-like pitching style. Maybe he's not hurt but his physical body no longer throws a baseball as hard as it used to.

Penny to the pen, eh? We'll see.

Didn't see anything today to change this opinion, nor to change my thinking that Tim needs a month in the minors to figure shit out.

Won't even get into the fucking Dodgers who are pissing me right off.

 

[calsnowskier]

Didn't see anything today to change this opinion, nor to change my thinking that Tim needs a month in the minors to figure shit out.

Won't even get into the fucking Dodgers who are pissing me right off.

we all know this isn't going to happen w/o a DL stint, BUT...

Does he have options? (drafted in '06, called up in '07, CY in '08 and '09, WS in '10, 4th best pitcher on the G's (by the numbers) in '11, and over-taken by BZ in '12). Manny was drafted in '05 and just spent his last option last season. This is Goner's last option year, and he spent his first in '08 (I guess that answers my question)

 

[sfsportsfan]

Timmy was 4th best last year?

2011 San Francisco Giants Batting, Pitching, & Fielding Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[gp956]

Timmy's BABIP this year is .360 - he typically is around .300 (as are most pitchers). Without an excellent K and HR rate his ERA would be astronomical. As for the possibility of being DL'ed, you'll often find that rises in BABIP presage a stint on the DL.

BTW, there's a name for pitchers who consistently put up BABIPs greater than ~.320, they're called minor leaguers.

 

[calsnowskier]

Timmy was 4th best last year?

2011 San Francisco Giants Batting, Pitching, & Fielding Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com

Facts, stats and evidence have no place in civilized discussion, peasant.

 

[tzill]

Timmy was 4th best last year?

2011 San Francisco Giants Batting, Pitching, & Fielding Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com

Nope, he was right at the top with Vogey.

 

[calsnowskier]

Nope, he was right at the top with Vogey.

I would actually say Cain was best with Bum, Vogey and Timmeh interchangeable at 2, 3 and 4

 

[sfsportsfan]

Facts, stats and evidence have no place in civilized discussion, peasant.

 

[Stokes1931]

Facts, stats and evidence have no place in civilized discussion, peasant.

Post of the day.

 

[dredinis21]

I hope that Timmeh figures his shit out QUICK, but I think trading him would be a mistake. He has had hiccups along the way before and he has come out of them. I really think that the Giants need to hire his dad as a personal pitching coach because the further Timmeh has gotten from his dad (reportedly), the worse his mechanics have become. At his best, he is the best RHP in the game, the most dominant we have seem don the french vanilla since Marichel. Trading him at his lowest value is a mistake in my mind. Trading him at his highest value is a mistake in my mind. He saw what we did for Cain. He knows if its about dollars, the Giants are all in. If he tells mgt this offseason that he will be testing the FA market, then and only then do I feel we should look to trade him. But we all saw in 2010 what dominant pitching brought this franchise and he is the cornerstone for that. Maybe I am being blinded by my sentimental feelings towards him, but he is a game changer in a game where those guys are few and far between. Just my $0.02 for what its worth.

 

[msgkings322]

I hope that Timmeh figures his shit out QUICK, but I think trading him would be a mistake. He has had hiccups along the way before and he has come out of them. I really think that the Giants need to hire his dad as a personal pitching coach because the further Timmeh has gotten from his dad (reportedly), the worse his mechanics have become. At his best, he is the best RHP in the game, the most dominant we have seem don the french vanilla since Marichel. Trading him at his lowest value is a mistake in my mind. Trading him at his highest value is a mistake in my mind. He saw what we did for Cain. He knows if its about dollars, the Giants are all in. If he tells mgt this offseason that he will be testing the FA market, then and only then do I feel we should look to trade him. But we all saw in 2010 what dominant pitching brought this franchise and he is the cornerstone for that. Maybe I am being blinded by my sentimental feelings towards him, but he is a game changer in a game where those guys are few and far between. Just my $0.02 for what its worth.

Well no Verlander is the best RHP in the game, even better than Tim at his best. But 2008-9 Tim, who could rival Verlander, is no more and is never coming back.

I agree we shouldn't trade him yet, but this isn't just another 'hiccup'. He hasn't been right all year, almost a third of it...he's learning to pitch in a new way since his velocity is now pretty run-of-the-mill. He may be able to do it, and we owe it to him to work on it.

I still think he needs to work on it in lower pressure situations, ie the minors, and I think that's why we signed Penny.

 

[MarcoPolo]

we all know this isn't going to happen w/o a DL stint, BUT...

Does {Timmy} have options?

Since you listed years/events, I assume you're not joking.

Timmy has *never* been optioned to the minors, so he has all three of them left. OTOH, a player with at least 5 years of service time can refuse assignment to the minors. I'm pretty sure that Timmy passed the 5-year mark this month, since he started the year with 4.148 of service time ...

 

[calsnowskier]

Since you listed years/events, I assume you're not joking.

Timmy has *never* been optioned to the minors, so he has all three of them left. OTOH, a player with at least 5 years of service time can refuse assignment to the minors. I'm pretty sure that Timmy passed the 5-year mark this month, since he started the year with 4.148 of service time ...

My understanding (probably flawed) is that you use an option whether you use it or not. 1 year = 1 option. No?

 

[msgkings322]

Since you listed years/events, I assume you're not joking.

Timmy has *never* been optioned to the minors, so he has all three of them left. OTOH, a player with at least 5 years of service time can refuse assignment to the minors. I'm pretty sure that Timmy passed the 5-year mark this month, since he started the year with 4.148 of service time ...

I can't imagine why he'd refuse to work on what so obviously needs working on. And if he does you trade him immediately.

 

[tzill]

I would actually say Cain was best with Bum, Vogey and Timmeh interchangeable at 2, 3 and 4

ERA+ wouldn't bear that out.

 

[MarcoPolo]

My understanding (probably flawed) is that you use an option whether you use it or not. 1 year = 1 option. No?

That's not correct. An option year is used whenever a guy on the 40-man is optioned to the minors (well, unless he spends less than 20 days in the minors, or never makes it to the minors like Villalona this year).

1. A player must be on the 40-man to use an option year. A player on the 40-man is a "major league player" (and covered by the CBA). If he is NOT on the active roster, then he is on "optional assignment" to the minors (well, or injured or on one of the "special situation" lists).

1b. The team has 4 years to evaluate a player in the minors before he is subject to the rule 5 draft. Players on the 40-man are protected from the rule 5 draft (which is why some minor leaguers are put on the 40-man before they ever see the majors).

2. An "option year" is used when a player is optioned to the minors. (Look at the "transactions" area of ESPN.com or sfgiants.com.). A player usually get 3 options years, after which if he is sent to the minors he must pass through waivers. (There's an uncommon case when a player gets 4 option years.)

If a player isn't on the 40-man, he doesn't use an option year. If a player on the 40-man spends the entire year in the majors (i.e., on the active roster or on the D.L.) then he doesn't use an option year. Rehab assignments to the minors do NOT use up an option.

Timmy has never been optioned to the minors, and when he was in the minors he wasn't on the 40-man. He was added to the 40-man the day he was called up and has never been back to the minors.

 

[calsnowskier]

That's not correct. An option year is used whenever a guy on the 40-man is optioned to the minors (well, unless he spends less than 20 days in the minors, or never makes it to the minors like Villalona this year).

1. A player must be on the 40-man to use an option year. A player on the 40-man is a "major league player" (and covered by the CBA). If he is NOT on the active roster, then he is on "optional assignment" to the minors (well, or injured or on one of the "special situation" lists).

1b. The team has 4 years to evaluate a player in the minors before he is subject to the rule 5 draft. Players on the 40-man are protected from the rule 5 draft (which is why some minor leaguers are put on the 40-man before they ever see the majors).

2. An "option year" is used when a player is optioned to the minors. (Look at the "transactions" area of ESPN.com or sfgiants.com.). A player usually get 3 options years, after which if he is sent to the minors he must pass through waivers. (There's an uncommon case when a player gets 4 option years.)

If a player isn't on the 40-man, he doesn't use an option year. If a player on the 40-man spends the entire year in the majors (i.e., on the active roster) then he doesn't use an option year. Rehab assignments to the minors do NOT use up an option.

Timmy has never been optioned to the minors, and when he was in the minors he wasn't on the 40-man. He was added to the 40-man the day he was called up.

I don't care what everyone says. You are an asset to this board.

Good info. Thanks

 

[MarcoPolo]

I can't imagine why he'd refuse to work on what so obviously needs working on. And if he does you trade him immediately.

I believe that a player with five years service time can refuse an assignment to the minors and become a free agent instead. His contract is still guaranteed.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I don't care what everyone says. You are an asset to this board.

Good info. Thanks

I'm trying to think of a joke, but am at a loss.

 

[Stokes1931]

I don't care what everyone says. You are an asset to this board.

Good info. Thanks

You are in rare form, Cal. It portends a Giants win, does it not? Can you handle the pressure?