9/5 GDT Slytherin @ MKB's

[gp956]

I didn't realize this last night, but I just read that Nady got hurt. Where do we go from here? Blanco's been a failure. Theriot can't hit. Belt should remain at first. How about Pill?

Belt can't be any worse than Nady in LF. They have the option of playing Hector at C and Posey at 1b.

 

[tzill]

Great! That sets the bar on the stupidest comment of 2012.

Care to elaborate?

 

[tzill]

I always think it's strange when a fan is afraid that his team might make the playoffs.

Where, exactly, did I express fear?

 

[msgkings322]

Where, exactly, did I express fear?

You did express a condition where you wouldn't want your team to go to the playoffs. That might be even worse.

I guess now that I think about it I wouldn't want the team to trade every good young player they had to get to the playoffs for one year only and then suck for along time, but that's not what we're jumping on here.

 

[Robotech]

Where, exactly, did I express fear?

Sorry, you didn't mention fear, but you did say that you didn't want them to go to the playoffs. I think that's crazy. Why would you not want to see your team have an opportunity to win the World Series? Obviously, it would be better if they were entering the playoffs while on a hot streak and firing on all cylinders, but if they weren't, would you demand that the Giants decline their postseason berth?

 

[gp956]

Care to elaborate?

1. rejecting serendipitous success --> shows an immature attitude towards the twists and turns of a baseball season, and possibly life.
2. discounting the possibility of the pitching staff turning it on during the playoffs.
3. if you can't win your way, then happy for the dodgers to take it.

 

[tzill]

You did express a condition where you wouldn't want your team to go to the playoffs. That might be even worse.

I guess now that I think about it I wouldn't want the team to trade every good young player they had to get to the playoffs for one year only and then suck for along time, but that's not what we're jumping on here.

OK, so we agree that I'm not afraid of the SPs continuing to shit the bed. My desire is, win or lose, that we pitch well. That's the most enjoyable thing to me --watching good pitching. 9-8 ballgames are games I generally don't enjoy. I was there on Monday and I hated most of that game. I don't want to watch shitty pitching. That's my preference and it may not be yours.

 

[tzill]

Sorry, you didn't mention fear, but you did say that you didn't want them to go to the playoffs. I think that's crazy. Why would you not want to see your team have an opportunity to win the World Series? Obviously, it would be better if they were entering the playoffs while on a hot streak and firing on all cylinders, but if they weren't, would you demand that the Giants decline their postseason berth?

As mentioned above, AL type 9-8 games don't interest me. Would I get excited if the Giants make the playoffs with a shitty pitching staff and a high octane offense? Meh, I'd watch but it wouldn't be that much fun for me.

YMMV.

 

[tzill]

1. rejecting serendipitous success --> shows an immature attitude towards the twists and turns of a baseball season, and possibly life.
2. discounting the possibility of the pitching staff turning it on during the playoffs.
3. if you can't win your way, then happy for the dodgers to take it.

Wow. Talk about straw men...tell me exactly where I said I'm "happy" for the doyers to win the division. If this is a "twist," then soon enough I'll be satisfied. If it's a trend, then not so much.

That's not "stupid" or "immature," you simply just don't agree with me. Which is fine. Again, YMMV.

 

[gp956]

Wow. Talk about straw men...tell me exactly where I said I'm "happy" for the doyers to win the division. If this is a "twist," then soon enough I'll be satisfied. If it's a trend, then not so much.

That's not "stupid" or "immature," you simply just don't agree with me. Which is fine. Again, YMMV.

Had I realized it was the way you felt, I would have used more delicate language. The way you formatted that post made it seem like the thoughts were coming from another Grant "attention grabbing" piece. My apologies for being so harsh.

Still, this has to stick in anyone's craw:

we deserve to collapse and gag up the division to the doyers.

Happy may work in its definition as a condition of something being apt, felicitous, or fitting. Nevertheless, I guess the deal for me is that I can't wrap my mind around the emotional state that can produce this thought. I can't imagining that wishing it, or having it come to pass, if wished, would have any positive affects on one's emotional well being. Sorry, but it's almost titoesque.

 

[tzill]

Had I realized it was the way you felt, I would have used more delicate language. The way you formatted that post made it seem like the thoughts were coming from another Grant "attention grabbing" piece. My apologies for being so harsh.

Still, this has to stick in anyone's craw:



Happy may work in its definition as a condition of something being apt, felicitous, or fitting. Nevertheless, I guess the deal for me is that I can't wrap my mind around the emotional state that can produce this thought. I can't imagining that wishing it, or having it come to pass, if wished, would have any positive affects on one's emotional well being. Sorry, but it's almost titoesque.

Again, consider the condition precedent -- IF the SPs continue to shit the bed. I really can't abide shitty pitching. It makes the game unfun for me, irrespective of the outcome.

 

[SF11704]

Strange thread. I can actually see both sides of then coin here. That in itself is amazing. Usually I can't even see the damn coin. When I look back to 2010 I see a stellar pitching staff that came together down the stretch and into the playoffs. Think we had a stretch of 21ish games where we held the opposition to 3 runs or less. Both the SP and pen were almost unhittable late in the season. This is what I came to expect and look for as we moved into the playoffs. This is what I expected this year as well. This latest run is somewhat unsettling for me. It just seems so 'out of character' for this team. I actually enjoyed 'torture' in 2010. I thrived on 3-2 wins. Not fond of 9-8 wins. Not really the same thing for me. Glad we won but very unsettling to see our pitching getting raked. On the other hand, if we had a line-up with the potential of the Doyers I would expect an offense that produces 6+ runs a game. A 9-8 win would be just fine for me. My exepections would be very different. Having our SP getting raked is very unsettling. I'd rather the past SP performances versus some 'increased' offensive performance that we seem to have found. With that said. I wiould be satisified with one win in this series. I would prefer two. Just don't want to get swept!

 

[tzill]

Strange thread. I can actually see both sides of then coin here. That in itself is amazing. Usually I can't even see the damn coin. When I look back to 2010 I see a stellar pitching staff that came together down the stretch and into the playoffs. Think we had a stretch of 21ish games where we held the opposition to 3 runs or less. Both the SP and pen were almost unhittable late in the season. This is what I came to expect and look for as we moved into the playoffs. This is what I expected this year as well. This latest run is somewhat unsettling for me. It just seems so 'out of character' for this team. I actually enjoyed 'torture' in 2010. I thrived on 3-2 wins. Not fond of 9-8 wins. Not really the same thing for me. Glad we won but very unsettling to see our pitching getting raked. On the other hand, if we had a line-up with the potential of the Doyers I would expect an offense that produces 6+ runs a game. A 9-8 win would be just fine for me. My exepections would be very different. Having our SP getting raked is very unsettling. I'd rather the past SP performances versus some 'increased' offensive performance that we seem to have found. With that said. I wiould be satisified with one win in this series. I would prefer two. Just don't want to get swept!

I hear you, and I agree on several points. I guess it really comes down to what type of baseball one prefers to watch. For many, the answer is "winning." I suspect most don't care if it's 9-8 or 2-1 as long as the Giants have the larger number of runs at the end of the game. And that's fine.

For me, in order of preference, I like:
1. G's win 2-1
2. G's lose 2-1
3. G's win 9-8
4. G's lose 9-8

For most, I suspect they'd flip 2 and 3. I realize I'm a small minority on this one, and again -- that's OK too. I don't mind the occasional 7-6 game, but a steady diet of them makes me lose interest. I guess some would call that "immature" or "stupid," but that's my opinion.

 

[calsnowskier]

I hear you, and I agree on several points. I guess it really comes down to what type of baseball one prefers to watch. For many, the answer is "winning." I suspect most don't care if it's 9-8 or 2-1 as long as the Giants have the larger number of runs at the end of the game. And that's fine.

For me, in order of preference, I like:
1. G's win 2-1
2. G's lose 2-1
3. G's win 9-8
4. G's lose 9-8

For most, I suspect they'd flip 2 and 3. I realize I'm a small minority on this one, and again -- that's OK too. I don't mind the occasional 7-6 game, but a steady diet of them makes me lose interest. I guess some would call that "immature" or "stupid," but that's my opinion.

What this tells me is that you are more of a baseball fan than a giants fan.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

 

[calsnowskier]

6000!!!!

 

[SF11704]

For me, in order of preference, I like:
1. G's win 2-1
2. G's lose 2-1
3. G's win 9-8
4. G's lose 9-8

For most, I suspect they'd flip 2 and 3. I realize I'm a small minority on this one, and again -- that's OK too. I don't mind the occasional 7-6 game, but a steady diet of them makes me lose interest. I guess some would call that "immature" or "stupid," but that's my opinion.

IMHO preference is really a product of a person's expectations. Last year was all about pitching. My expectations were centered around that. Being in NY if I was a NYY fan I would most likely be attuned to a team that can score some runs. That would be my expectations. For a team like the NYY losing 3-2 or 2-1 or 1-0 is always followed by a rant of how their offence just sucked. There is an expectation of 5 or so runs. Look at the typical expectations for a Giant fan. I personally feel that if we give up 4 runs ..... we are in trouble. I've come to expect most of the games being low scoring and therefore close .....

 

[msgkings322]

IMHO preference is really a product of a person's expectations. Last year was all about pitching. My expectations were centered around that. Being in NY if I was a NYY fan I would most likely be attuned to a team that can score some runs. That would be my expectations. For a team like the NYY losing 3-2 or 2-1 or 1-0 is always followed by a rant of how their offence just sucked. There is an expectation of 5 or so runs. Look at the typical expectations for a Giant fan. I personally feel that if we give up 4 runs ..... we are in trouble. I've come to expect most of the games being low scoring and therefore close .....

But that's just it, in 2010 yes we give up 4 we have a problem. This year not a big deal. The team is qualitatively different this year. Is it 'better' or 'worse', who knows? I too prefer dominant pitching and I think that gives you an edge in the playoffs (minimizes the randomness), and I preferred having the historically good pitching in 2010 which we do not have now (pen or staff).

It just feels weird to take it so far as to prefer the Giants losing to wining a high scoring game. As cal says, that makes you more of a fan of the sport itself (and a certain way of it being played) than the team. And I agree there's nothing wrong with that, it's a free country.

Means you aren't rooting for laundry necessarily, just well-pitched games. But if you logically follow that to its conclusion, shouldn't your allegiance kind of drift around the league depending on who has the best pitching? Should tzill be following the Nats and the Rays as much as the Giants this year?

 

[tzill]

But that's just it, in 2010 yes we give up 4 we have a problem. This year not a big deal. The team is qualitatively different this year. Is it 'better' or 'worse', who knows? I too prefer dominant pitching and I think that gives you an edge in the playoffs (minimizes the randomness), and I preferred having the historically good pitching in 2010 which we do not have now (pen or staff).

It just feels weird to take it so far as to prefer the Giants losing to wining a high scoring game. As cal says, that makes you more of a fan of the sport itself (and a certain way of it being played) than the team. And I agree there's nothing wrong with that, it's a free country.

Means you aren't rooting for laundry necessarily, just well-pitched games. But if you logically follow that to its conclusion, shouldn't your allegiance kind of drift around the league depending on who has the best pitching? Should tzill be following the Nats and the Rays as much as the Giants this year?

I suspect you're right about the bolded. Hadn't thought of that, so thanks. As to following other teams? Not possible. I was weaned on Giants baseball by my Zedi who moved to SF from NY to follow the team (he claimed it was to 'keep an eye on his daughter' but we know that's half true at best). I'm a Giants fan through and through and that isn't going to change.

Will I watch if they win the division with shitty pitching? Yep. Will I enjoy it? Probably not a whole lot, but playoff baseball is always exciting and hope springs eternal that Cain, Bum, Tron, and Timmy can suddenly "find it."

I root for the laundry, but I don't enjoy AL style baseball. It's a quandry.

 

[gp956]

Again, consider the condition precedent -- IF the SPs continue to shit the bed. I really can't abide shitty pitching. It makes the game unfun for me, irrespective of the outcome.

I prefer to watch dominate pitching as well. Shitty pitching is hard to watch. But sometimes that's the state we're in, and it's also part of the game. In fact, it's extremely rare in Giants history to have a dominate pitching staff. Were you not a fan in those eras?

The staff is going through a bad stretch of starts, no doubt. But they're still fifth in the league in WHIP. A few weeks ago we were discussing Cain, Vogelsong, and Bumgarner getting Cy Young votes. How do you go from there to - "we deserve to collapse and gag up the division to the doyers" - after a few back to back poor starts? That kind of reasoning is something I would have expected to see from tito whenever Bochy started Nate, Cain, Posey, over Velez, Sanchez, and Molina. It's a scorched earth mentality when you can't have things your way. Not a big deal if it's confined to baseball.

 

[tzill]

I prefer to watch dominate pitching as well. Shitty pitching is hard to watch. But sometimes that's the state we're in, and it's also part of the game. In fact, it's extremely rare in Giants history to have a dominate pitching staff. Were you not a fan in those eras?

The staff is going through a bad stretch of starts, no doubt. But they're still fifth in the league in WHIP. A few weeks ago we were discussing Cain, Vogelsong, and Bumgarner getting Cy Young votes. How do you go from there to - "we deserve to collapse and gag up the division to the doyers" - after a few back to back poor starts? That kind of reasoning is something I would have expected to see from tito whenever Bochy started Nate, Cain, Posey, over Velez, Sanchez, and Molina. It's a scorched earth mentality when you can't have things your way. Not a big deal if it's confined to baseball.