Game Thread: 9.5 Exhibiton Team @ Chubbs

[filosofy29]

You can always redirect the monthly fee to filo…

 

[Stokes1931]

Just turned off my subscription. My season ends on the 18th.

I think the Giants' season ended tonight.

 

[calsnowskier]

I think the Giants' season ended tonight.

Tonight, for no particular, quantifiable reason, just kinda felt like a tipping point. Twitter seems pretty fed up w FZ. And that include some of the old school former beats. I am actually kinda interested to hear what KNBR has to say tomorrow.

 

[LHG]

Tonight, for no particular, quantifiable reason, just kinda felt like a tipping point. Twitter seems pretty fed up w FZ. And that include some of the old school former beats. I am actually kinda interested to hear what KNBR has to say tomorrow.

Consider this, the team is on a historically bad hitting pace in the 2nd half (which is well documented on this forum). They have played pretty poorly for about 2 months (also well documented). With the conclusion of yesterday's games, the Giants now sit 2 games out of the 3rd WC spot, with just 23 games to go. They've lost 5 games in a row, the last 3 of which were to a team that they were tied for that 3rd WC spot. They are not only 2 games out, but both Miami and Arizona have slid past them. The Padres are a mere 4.5 games behind the Giants. The Giants just lost a series to those Padres and get to play one of the hottest team in baseball, the Dodgers, in 7 of their last 10 games. The other 3 are against the Padres. I can see why frustration has grown.

What surprised me was seeing the frustration on this forum suddenly explode against FZ. Most of you all seemed content to trust him and what he was doing. Sure, you've complained from time to time on some of his moves but the depth of discontent seemed to come out of nowhere, at least toward him. The frustration on the team played is also well documented on this forum.

 

[calsnowskier]

Consider this, the team is on a historically bad hitting pace in the 2nd half (which is well documented on this forum). They have played pretty poorly for about 2 months (also well documented). With the conclusion of yesterday's games, the Giants now sit 2 games out of the 3rd WC spot, with just 23 games to go. They've lost 5 games in a row, the last 3 of which were to a team that they were tied for that 3rd WC spot. They are not only 2 games out, but both Miami and Arizona have slid past them. The Padres are a mere 4.5 games behind the Giants. The Giants just lost a series to those Padres and get to play one of the hottest team in baseball, the Dodgers, in 7 of their last 10 games. The other 3 are against the Padres. I can see why frustration has grown.

What surprised me was seeing the frustration on this forum suddenly explode against FZ. Most of you all seemed content to trust him and what he was doing. Sure, you've complained from time to time on some of his moves but the depth of discontent seemed to come out of nowhere, at least toward him. The frustration on the team played is also well documented on this forum.

For me, I always disliked his strategy, but I was willing to shelf that to give him time to work his vision,

But we are 5 years in. I don’t expect a Championship. Heck, I don’t really even expect a Division. But I do expect a tangible vision at this point. I want some measurable milestone achievements.

But in 5 years, we have 1 incredible season that can not be explained by ANYONE and can not be recreated in any remote way. In 5 years, we have added 1 legit uber-prospect to the organization (Luciano was already in inventory). In 5 years, we continue to see a product on the field that is nothing less than completely unwatchable.

At some point, patience has to end. I, for one, have reached that point. He has removed the joy of watching baseball in the short term and has not added any true saviors to the pipeline to excite me for tomorrow’s hope.

At what point does FZ need to have some demonstrate-able progression? At what point is he responsible for his failed move after failed move?

As I have said elsewhere, he has had minor victories. Yaz. Wade. Estrada. The Ruf trade. Melancon for Beck.

But he has also had incredible failures. La Stella. Haniger. Stripling. Manaea. Pederson. Letting Gaussman walk (I was in favor of this at the time, to be fair). Conforto (maybe). Judge/Correa/Harper/every Asian star.

 

[LHG]

For me, I always disliked his strategy, but I was willing to shelf that to give him time to work his vision,

But we are 5 years in. I don’t expect a Championship. Heck, I don’t really even expect a Division. But I do expect a tangible vision at this point. I want some measurable milestone achievements.

But in 5 years, we have 1 incredible season that can not be explained by ANYONE and can not be recreated in any remote way. In 5 years, we have added 1 legit uber-prospect to the organization (Luciano was already in inventory). In 5 years, we continue to see a product on the field that is nothing less than completely unwatchable.

At some point, patience has to end. I, for one, have reached that point. He has removed the joy of watching baseball in the short term and has not added any true saviors to the pipeline to excite me for tomorrow’s hope.

At what point does FZ need to have some demonstrate-able progression? At what point is he responsible for his failed move after failed move?

As I have said elsewhere, he has had minor victories. Yaz. Wade. Estrada. The Ruf trade. Melancon for Beck.

But he has also had incredible failures. La Stella. Haniger. Stripling. Manaea. Pederson. Letting Gaussman walk (I was in favor of this at the time, to be fair). Conforto (maybe). Judge/Correa/Harper/every Asian star.

I generally agree but, short term, it looks like a good thing that he did not land Correa. Of course, that production at shortstop, as bad as he is hitting (compared to his previous seasons) would still be a positive for this squad. Yet, his lack of superstar production would just compound the complaining against FZ.

 

[calsnowskier]

I generally agree but, short term, it looks like a good thing that he did not land Correa. Of course, that production at shortstop, as bad as he is hitting (compared to his previous seasons) would still be a positive for this squad. Yet, his lack of superstar production would just compound the complaining against FZ.

I agree. And losing out on Judge was probably a good thing, ultimately, as well. And allowing Rodon to walk was a good thing (though that looks to be less on FZ and more on Rodon having zero interest in returning)

But by focusing on Judge and Correa, we never sat at the table with Dansby. We never got in discussions with Benintendi (maybe good?). And we didn’t sign whoever else we would have signed (lost opportunity cost).

 

[filosofy29]

Consider this, the team is on a historically bad hitting pace in the 2nd half (which is well documented on this forum). They have played pretty poorly for about 2 months (also well documented). With the conclusion of yesterday's games, the Giants now sit 2 games out of the 3rd WC spot, with just 23 games to go. They've lost 5 games in a row, the last 3 of which were to a team that they were tied for that 3rd WC spot. They are not only 2 games out, but both Miami and Arizona have slid past them. The Padres are a mere 4.5 games behind the Giants. The Giants just lost a series to those Padres and get to play one of the hottest team in baseball, the Dodgers, in 7 of their last 10 games. The other 3 are against the Padres. I can see why frustration has grown.

What surprised me was seeing the frustration on this forum suddenly explode against FZ. Most of you all seemed content to trust him and what he was doing. Sure, you've complained from time to time on some of his moves but the depth of discontent seemed to come out of nowhere, at least toward him. The frustration on the team played is also well documented on this forum.

It’s a good point, but I think the main thing is being 5+ years in and not having really anything of note to point to. Like we don’t have a big FA get, a couple of future above average position players or one star, nothing. Everyone is on an expiring contract or a show me contract. Like it’s tough to even tell if we’re rebuilding or trying for the playoffs. I just don’t see a strong direction. Obviously all the kids are getting experience and may pan out next year. Just getting frustrated being mid I guess.

 

[calsnowskier]

I have been hesitant, but generally supportive of the team since FZ signed. I have acknowledge my misgivings, but gave the current FO the benefit of the doubt. But 5 years in, that forgiveness has expired. I just don’t see the light at the end of the tunnel anymore.

He is trying to reinvent the game. And he isn’t getting results from that reinvention. Sometimes, the widget is a widget and can’t be improved upon.

 

[tzill]

I think the Giants' season ended tonight.

Late to the party...it ended in SD