MLB Daily Thread: 9/21/2017: Sale 1st AL pitcher in 18 years to fan 300, Sox clinch a playoff spot

[DirtDirtDirt]

Verlander won the MVP, so you're wrong. Again.

Again? When was the first time?

Link?

 

[soxfan1468927]

20 HR and 83 RBI is "Cute"

Funny how you invoke "modern era" and then use archaic measuring sticks.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Funny how you invoke "modern era" and then use archaic measuring sticks.

Not that archaic when you consider that outside of Ichiros' MVP, those are stats that have been weighed pretty heavily in MVP voting

 

[Rock Strongo]

lets teach dirt about baseball:

Pedroia in 2008:

.326/.376/.493 = .869 OPS
213 hits (Lead)
54 doubles (Lead)
2 triples
17 HR
83 RBI
118 runs (Lead)
20 steals
OPS+ 123
won a GG

Jimmy Rollins in 2007:

.296/.344/.531 = .875
212 hits
38 doubles
20 triples (Lead)
30 HR
94 RBI
139 runs (Lead)
41 steals
OPS+ 119
won a GG



rollins had a very similar year and lead the league in 2 major offensive categories vs pedroias 3. Dusty had a higher OPS+, avg, more doubles, and more hits (lead the league).

id like to see your sensible reply...

 

[soxfan1468927]

Not that archaic when you consider that outside of Ichiros' MVP, those are stats that have been weighed pretty heavily in MVP voting

But now you move the goal posts. You first said he had the worst offensive numbers for an MVP winner, and now you are saying that he was the worst offensive numbers for an MVP player based on the numbers that the voters usually look at.

Either way, plenty of examples of guys with few HRs and RBI winning it. Barry Larkin at 15/66 in 1995. Gibson in 1988 had 25/76. Willie McGee in 1985 had 10 HRs and 85 RBI. Pete Rose in 1973, 5 HRs and 64 RBI.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

lets teach dirt about baseball:

Pedroia in 2008:

.326/.376/.493 = .869 OPS
213 hits (Lead)
54 doubles (Lead)
2 triples
17 HR
83 RBI
118 runs (Lead)
20 steals
OPS+ 123
won a GG

Jimmy Rollins in 2007:

.296/.344/.531 = .875
212 hits
38 doubles
20 triples (Lead)
30 HR
94 RBI
139 runs (Lead)
41 steals
OPS+ 119
won a GG



rollins had a very similar year and lead the league in 2 major offensive categories vs pedroias 3. Dusty had a higher OPS+, avg, more doubles, and more hits (lead the league).

id like to see your sensible reply...

18 less triples
13 less HR's
11 Less RBI's
21 less runs
21 less steals


So the best evidence you have to prove me wrong that Dustin Pedroia doesnt has the worst offensive numbers in the modern era for an MVP, is a guy that had a better season?

No matter how close you wanna spin the overall numbers, Rollins was better

MLB Most Valuable Player MVP Awards & Cy Young Awards Winners | Baseball-Reference.com

Look at the numbers of those AL MVP's and compare them to Dusty

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

But now you move the goal posts. You first said he had the worst offensive numbers for an MVP winner, and now you are saying that he was the worst offensive numbers for an MVP player based on the numbers that the voters usually look at.

Either way, plenty of examples of guys with few HRs and RBI winning it. Barry Larkin at 15/66 in 1995. Gibson in 1988 had 25/76. Willie McGee in 1985 had 10 HRs and 85 RBI. Pete Rose in 1973, 5 HRs and 64 RBI.

Ok, so you really dont dis-agree that much, youre going back a long way to cite a few examples.....

 

[soxfan1468927]

Ok, so you really dont dis-agree that much, youre going back a long way to cite a few examples.....

Well I don't know what "modern era" means to you. I also didn't know what you meant by offensive numbers. Offensive numbers that you value? Offensive numbers that the writers usually vote for? Maybe they are one in the same?

So it's hard for me to say whether I agree or not.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Well I don't know what "modern era" means to you. I also didn't know what you meant by offensive numbers. Offensive numbers that you value? Offensive numbers that the writers usually vote for? Maybe they are one in the same?

So it's hard for me to say whether I agree or not.

MLB Most Valuable Player MVP Awards & Cy Young Awards Winners | Baseball-Reference.com

Look at the attached AL MVP numbers, tell me who sticks out like a sore thumb in the last 15-20 years

 

[soxfan1468927]

MLB Most Valuable Player MVP Awards & Cy Young Awards Winners | Baseball-Reference.com

Look at the attached AL MVP numbers, tell me who sticks out like a sore thumb in the last 15-20 years

Okay so that answers the question, you're talking about the last 15-20 years. That I don't disagree with. I don't think "last 15-20 years" when I hear modern era.

Still doesn't mean Pedroia didn't deserve the award.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Okay so that answers the question, you're talking about the last 15-20 years. That I don't disagree with. I don't think "last 15-20 years" when I hear modern era.

Still doesn't mean Pedroia didn't deserve the award.

Fair enough, although this guy had a pretty strong argument

.300 BA
.375 OBP
.499 SLG
.873 OPS
23 HR
129 RBI

 

[Rock Strongo]

18 less triples
10 less HR's
11 Less RBI's
21 less runs
21 less steals


So the best evidence you have to prove me wrong that Dustin Pedroia doesnt has the worst offensive numbers in the modern era for an MVP, is a guy that had a better season?

No matter how close you wanna spin the overall numbers, Rollins was better

MLB Most Valuable Player MVP Awards & Cy Young Awards Winners | Baseball-Reference.com

Look at the numbers of those AL MVP's and compare them to Dusty

he didnt have a better season by "modern metrics" tho, dirtsky. you set the watermark on this. so you use old metrics to validate modern stats?

he had a higher OPS+, more hits, doubles, and a higher BA.

how exactly did rollins have "a better season"?

OLD metrics like HR and RBI when discussing MODERN baseball?

 

[Rock Strongo]

Okay so that answers the question, you're talking about the last 15-20 years. That I don't disagree with. I don't think "last 15-20 years" when I hear modern era.

Still doesn't mean Pedroia didn't deserve the award.

me too


modern era is what, 70's+?

 

[soxfan1468927]

Fair enough, although this guy had a pretty strong argument

.300 BA
.375 OBP
.499 SLG
.873 OPS
23 HR
129 RBI

A 4 point difference in OPS while one player is a threat on the basepaths and playing 2nd as opposed to 1st? Not a strong argument. It would be completely relying on HRs and RBI.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Fair enough, although this guy had a pretty strong argument

.300 BA
.375 OBP
.499 SLG
.873 OPS
23 HR
129 RBI

dusty carried that team on his back the final 2 months dirt, and thats what won it for him.

he carried that team.

 

[Rock Strongo]

But now you move the goal posts. You first said he had the worst offensive numbers for an MVP winner, and now you are saying that he was the worst offensive numbers for an MVP player based on the numbers that the voters usually look at.

Either way, plenty of examples of guys with few HRs and RBI winning it. Barry Larkin at 15/66 in 1995. Gibson in 1988 had 25/76. Willie McGee in 1985 had 10 HRs and 85 RBI. Pete Rose in 1973, 5 HRs and 64 RBI.

he gave us the list!!!

lmao

 

[soxfan1468927]

he didnt have a better season by "modern metrics" tho, dirtsky. you set the watermark on this. so you use old metrics to validate modern stats?

he had a higher OPS+, more hits, doubles, and a higher BA.

how exactly did rollins have "a better season"?

OLD metrics like HR and RBI when discussing MODERN baseball?

I think it's close with Rollins. I think his baserunning could put him over the top over Pedroia. But that's splitting hairs.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

he didnt have a better season by "modern metrics" tho, dirtsky. you set the watermark on this. so you use old metrics to validate modern stats?

he had a higher OPS+, more hits, doubles, and a higher BA.

how exactly did rollins have "a better season"?

OLD metrics like HR and RBI when discussing MODERN baseball?

This is what youre doing

Youre taking all of the numbers that Dusty was better at, and labelling them as "more important"

And all of the numbers that Rollins was better at (some significantly) and lessening their importance

Not the way it works

 

[Rock Strongo]

I think it's close with Rollins. I think his baserunning could put him over the top over Pedroia. But that's splitting hairs.

absolutely...and the funniest part...

theyre a year apart!

i did this to dirt in 08 too

 

[Rock Strongo]

This is what youre doing

Youre taking all of the numbers that Dusty was better at, and labelling them as "more important"

And all of the numbers that Rollins was better at (some significantly) and lessening their importance

Not the way it works

no im not

i look at OPS+ first

thats about as good as it gets