MLB Daily Thread: 9/21/2017: Sale 1st AL pitcher in 18 years to fan 300, Sox clinch a playoff spot

[PolarVortex]

I love how we "LOL" at a 2nd basemen who will absolutely skate into the HOF on the first ballot by time he is done

True, Robby will most likely be elected first ballot. But not all first balloters are created equal.

 

[soxfan1468927]

A player who is not a DH will spend half of his career playing defense. Maz has the most defensive WAR for a second baseman of all time. He belongs in the HOF. If he doesn't then defense does not belong in baseball.

Spending half of your career playing defense doesn't mean that defense has the same value as offense. Being the best defensively all time at a certain position doesn't mean that person should automatically be a HOFer.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Yeah, so? Why should I give a fuck if a SS from the 80s and 90s was a better offensive player than a second baseman from a pitcher's era in the 50s and 60s?

BTW - you which guy opposing managers and pitchers were more worried about when he came to the plate?
Maz: 110 intentional walks in 2163 games.
Oz: 79 intentional walks in 2573 games.

If Maz had done a back flip and hadn't played in baseball purgatory, everyone would love him and he'd have been a first balloter.

Chili Davis, Adrian Gonzalez, Robin Ventura, Gary Templeton, Tim McCarver have more intentional walks than Edgar Martinez, so what's your point? Were they more worried about than Edgar?

Many of your stances become hypocritcal when I can easily use them against someone like Edgar Martinez, who you adamantly believe is a HOFer.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Yeah, so? Why should I give a fuck if a SS from the 80s and 90s was a better offensive player than a second baseman from a pitcher's era in the 50s and 60s?

BTW - you which guy opposing managers and pitchers were more worried about when he came to the plate?
Maz: 110 intentional walks in 2163 games.
Oz: 79 intentional walks in 2573 games.

If Maz had done a back flip and hadn't played in baseball purgatory, everyone would love him and he'd have been a first balloter.

Smith was a better offensive players compared to his peers than Mazeroski was compared to his peers. You brought up the comparison, the point is that the comparison is weak.

And of course Mazeroski was going to be intentionally walked more. He hit at the bottom of the lineup, and often in front of a pitcher. Ozzie spent most of his career batting 2nd.

 

[PolarVortex]

Spending half of your career playing defense doesn't mean that defense has the same value as offense. Being the best defensively all time at a certain position doesn't mean that person should automatically be a HOFer.

Defense is underrated in all team sports. Nothing new. But hat you are saying is an opinion, obviously a popular opinion but still just an opinion, and it is an opinion I do not share.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Defense is underrated in all team sports. Nothing new. But hat you are saying is an opinion, obviously a popular opinion but still just an opinion, and it is an opinion I do not share.

So you think defense and offense are of equal value in baseball?

 

[PolarVortex]

Chili Davis, Adrian Gonzalez, Robin Ventura, Gary Templeton, Tim McCarver have more intentional walks than Edgar Martinez, so what's your point? Were they more worried about than Edgar?

Many of your stances become hypocritcal when I can easily use them against someone like Edgar Martinez, who you adamantly believe is a HOFer.

You would have been better off using right-handed hitters instead of lefties and switch hitters. Managers have loved to intentionally walk left handed hitters since the beginning of time.

 

[PolarVortex]

So you think defense and offense are of equal value in baseball?

Yeah. Without defense you are basically having batting practice.

 

[PolarVortex]

Smith was a better offensive players compared to his peers than Mazeroski was compared to his peers. You brought up the comparison, the point is that the comparison is weak.

And of course Mazeroski was going to be intentionally walked more. He hit at the bottom of the lineup, and often in front of a pitcher. Ozzie spent most of his career batting 2nd.

Which peers said that? I never read that anywhere.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Which peers said that? I never read that anywhere.

I never said peers said that but stats prove that.

 

[StanMarsh51]

You would have been better off using right-handed hitters instead of lefties and switch hitters. Managers have loved to intentionally walk left handed hitters since the beginning of time.

Let's see the hypocrisy and flip flopping when it comes to Edgar:

You claimed that Yaz was a compiler because he played 6 years too long, but ignore that through the same amount of games as Edgar, Yaz had a higher WAR than Edgar.

You continually bring up RBIs when bringing up what you think of Jeter, but you continually ignore that Edgar wasn't a big RBI guy overall and had a number of years with unspectacular RBI totals.

And now you use intentional walks to bring up fear/worrying, but ignore that many non-HOFers have more IBBs than Edgar (so that must mean Edgar wasn't all that feared, right?).

 

[soxfan1468927]

Yeah. Without defense you are basically having batting practice.

So if you had to choose between a great defensive team, but a crappy offense. Or a great offensive team, but crappy defense, you would choose the former?

So you would rather be the Angels than the Astros?

 

[PolarVortex]

Let's see the hypocrisy and flip flopping when it comes to Edgar:

You claimed that Yaz was a compiler because he played 6 years too long, but ignore that through the same amount of games as Edgar, Yaz had a higher WAR than Edgar.

You continually bring up RBIs when bringing up what you think of Jeter, but you continually ignore that Edgar wasn't a big RBI guy overall and had a number of years with unspectacular RBI totals.

And now you use intentional walks to bring up fear/worrying, but ignore that many non-HOFers have more IBBs than Edgar (so that must mean Edgar wasn't all that feared, right?).

You back on Yaz again? Geezuz. Broken record, this guy. Shooting the fuck out of a dead horse.

 

[StanMarsh51]

You back on Yaz again? Geezuz. Broken record, this guy. Shooting the fuck out of a dead horse.

So you're not denying that your stances are hypocritical?

Whenever you criticize a player for something, that same criticism doesn't seem to matter when it applies to Edgar...

 

[PolarVortex]

So if you had to choose between a great defensive team, but a crappy offense. Or a great offensive team, but crappy defense, you would choose the former?

So you would rather be the Angels than the Astros?

Neither. I'll take the team with the best pitching.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Neither. I'll take the team with the best pitching.

Convenient deflection.

Who was better, Bill Mazeroski or Ted Williams?

 

[PolarVortex]

So you're not denying that your stances are hypocritical?

Whenever you criticize a player for something, that same criticism doesn't seem to matter when it applies to Edgar...

Choosing not to answer your question is not the same thing as denying or not denying. You go ahead and read into that whatever your little heart desires as I know you will.

 

[PolarVortex]

Convenient deflection.

Who was better, Bill Mazeroski or Ted Williams?

Half the time, Ted Williams. The other half of the time, Bill Mazeroski.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Choosing not to answer your question is not the same thing as denying or not denying. You go ahead and read into that whatever your little heart desires as I know you will.

Was Ron Cey more feared than Edgar Martinez? You also ignored the fact that Ozzie was a 2-hole hitter while Mazeroski was a bottom of the lineup hitter.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Half the time, Ted Williams. The other half of the time, Bill Mazeroski.

Oh okay you're at the point where you are just being a troll because you've been backed into a corner that you can't logically argue out of