Game Thread: 8/25 Ray @ Woo

[SF11704]

I still feel that way about Camilo. Gotta figure he'll straighten up and fly right.

Really not sure ... his sruff is/can be electric vut thar us only half the requiremebt for a clioser. Still not sure about how he handles himself mentally. A clioser IMHO is a special breed of pitcher. They can't dwelll on a pooir outing and they have to believe in themselves at all times and they seem to live for the opportunity to 'close'. Not sure Camilo can put a bad outing behind him. The best closer I ever saw was Mariano Rivera. Living in NY for mosr of my life I was lucky to see many sports highlights about him.

 

[tzill]

Really not sure ... his sruff is/can be electric vut thar us only half the requiremebt for a clioser. Still not sure about how he handles himself mentally. A clioser IMHO is a special breed of pitcher. They can't dwelll on a pooir outing and they have to believe in themselves at all times and they seem to live for the opportunity to 'close'. Not sure Camilo can put a bad outing behind him. The best closer I ever saw was Mariano Rivera. Living in NY for mosr of my life I was lucky to see many sports highlights about him.

He doesn't need to be Rivera to be valuable.

Hell, he doesn't need to be the closer to be valuable.

 

[SF11704]

He doesn't need to be Rivera to be valuable.

Hell, he doesn't need to be the closer to be valuable.

Not saying he's not valuable. Never meant to imply that. Just wondering if he has the mental approach to be a closer. He is not the same pitcher he was 2 years ago.

 

[LHG]

Oh, for sure. Even Heliot.

But it seems the "bones" are there for a good hitting core. Fitz/Chap/Heliot/Lee/Bailey is legit. Need one or two more guys to break through.

Could be Tyro getting healthy
Could be LWJ staying healthy
Could be Yaz
Could be Matos
Could be Luci

I don't see any of those 5 being that. Lee also will be a nice hitter but probably not an allstar. I think Matos and Luciano are perilously close to bust territory and I'd rather trade them for someone proven like Luis Robert.

Yaz, LWJ and Tyro are who they are and nice pieces but they aren't future all stars. Ramos, Chapman and Fitz are the best hitters we got and we need one more at their level at least. If they can be a team with 6-7 good to very good hitters that can be enough with elite pitching.

Estrada, maybe.
LWJ, no way. Dude is glass.
Yaz is who he is.
Matos and Lucky are possible.

Ramos is a good example of not giving up too early on a young player struggling either at the AAA or big league level. Yes, Ramos could be horrible next year but right now he is show that patience is key for some of these really young players.

Wade's problem isn't talent, its staying healthy. Not sure how much we can count on that. He seems like a poor man's Belt at this point in his career (good hitting, probably less pop, and serious injury issues).

Yaz is who he is indeed. In a deep lineup, he is a great guy to slot in the lower 3 spots, especially with his excellent defense.

Not sure what to make of Estrada. Maybe he returns to his 2022-2023 version. I don't know. But if the Giants keep him for 2025, I hope that he does well.

 

[calsnowskier]

Ramos is a good example of not giving up too early on a young player struggling either at the AAA or big league level. Yes, Ramos could be horrible next year but right now he is show that patience is key for some of these really young players.

Wade's problem isn't talent, its staying healthy. Not sure how much we can count on that. He seems like a poor man's Belt at this point in his career (good hitting, probably less pop, and serious injury issues).

Yaz is who he is indeed. In a deep lineup, he is a great guy to slot in the lower 3 spots, especially with his excellent defense.

Not sure what to make of Estrada. Maybe he returns to his 2022-2023 version. I don't know. But if the Giants keep him for 2025, I hope that he does well.

I don’t hate Estrada at all. But his CEILING is an average starting-level 2B. He offers + defense, + hitting and average (at best) power. That is fine as a place-holder, but don’t bend over backwards to keep him, and always have an eye on the horizon looking for a replacement.

 

[tzill]

From Brisbee:

Walker is having one of those seasons. And last week, he faced 13 batters. He threw 50 pitches to those 13 batters, or just under four pitches per plate appearance. He struck out 10 of those batters.

Take a minute to do the math! He struck out 10 of the 13 batters he faced … but he averaged 3.8 pitches per plate appearance … carry the four …

It might have been the silliest stretch from a Giants reliever in modern history, which puts it on the short list of the silliest stretches from any reliever in modern history.

 

[tzill]

Was just reading up on Bob Gibson, probably my favorite non Giant pitcher of all time (or tied with Koufax):

1968, Bob Gibson - June and July, he had
•12 starts
•12 complete games
•12–0 record
•108 innings, 63 hits, 16 walks, 91 strikeouts
•one home run
•ERA: 0.50

Hard to believe that actually happened.

 

[calsnowskier]

Was just reading up on Bob Gibson, probably my favorite non Giant pitcher of all time (or tied with Koufax):

1968, Bob Gibson - June and July, he had
•12 starts
•12 complete games
•12–0 record
•108 innings, 63 hits, 16 walks, 91 strikeouts
•one home run
•ERA: 0.50

Hard to believe that actually happened.

That is a nice SEASON in today’s game.

 

[LHG]

That is a nice SEASON in today’s game.

That is an unattainable season in today's game. Can you imagine more than 2 complete games from the best starters in MLB? Snell threw the first complete game of his career this year.

 

[Stokes1931]

Was just reading up on Bob Gibson, probably my favorite non Giant pitcher of all time (or tied with Koufax):

1968, Bob Gibson - June and July, he had
•12 starts
•12 complete games
•12–0 record
•108 innings, 63 hits, 16 walks, 91 strikeouts
•one home run
•ERA: 0.50

Hard to believe that actually happened.

Wasn't Gibson's ERA for the season in 1968 something like 1.12?

And in 1969 he threw 28 CG in 33 starts.

Those were the days when good starters were throwing 300+ innings. In 1972, WIlbur Wood threw 376 innings!

 

[SF11704]

Wasn't Gibson's ERA for the season in 1968 something like 1.12?

And in 1969 he threw 28 CG in 33 starts.

Those were the days when good starters were throwing 300+ innings. In 1972, WIlbur Wood threw 376 innings!

If I remember correctly Wood was a knuckle ball pitcher. I also seem to remember that he sometimes started both games of a double header. Also think Hoyt Wilhelm also pitched a lot of innings.

 

[LHG]

If I remember correctly Wood was a knuckle ball pitcher. I also seem to remember that he sometimes started both games of a double header. Also think Hoyt Wilhelm also pitched a lot of innings.

Yes, the relief pitchers from those days probably throw more innings than half of the MLB starters today.

 

[sf1giantfan]

If I remember correctly Wood was a knuckle ball pitcher. I also seem to remember that he sometimes started both games of a double header. Also think Hoyt Wilhelm also pitched a lot of innings.

It’s when men were men.

 

[tzill]

It’s when men were men.

And lawns were uninhabited.

 

[maxrandomness]

Yes, the relief pitchers from those days probably throw more innings than half of the MLB starters today.

True but todays pitches are harder on the arm elbow and shoulder

 

[filosofy29]

True but todays pitches are harder on the arm elbow and shoulder

That’s because pitchers are tough and rewarded for max velocity and “stuff” vs learning how to pitch. I never was anything special, didn’t even play all 4 years of HS. But the pitchers that can locate to all four quadrants and change speeds are the hardest pitchers to hit imho.

 

[Stokes1931]

That’s because pitchers are tough and rewarded for max velocity and “stuff” vs learning how to pitch. I never was anything special, didn’t even play all 4 years of HS. But the pitchers that can locate to all four quadrants and change speeds are the hardest pitchers to hit imho.

Greg Maddux agrees.

 

[calsnowskier]

That’s because pitchers are tough and rewarded for max velocity and “stuff” vs learning how to pitch. I never was anything special, didn’t even play all 4 years of HS. But the pitchers that can locate to all four quadrants and change speeds are the hardest pitchers to hit imho.

That skill is very hard to scout, though. Look at Tyler. He rotted in our minors for about 3 years before he was finally given a chance, and once he was called up for the first time, he never went back down.

 

[Stokes1931]

Greg Maddux agrees.

Just reading through Maddux's wiki page was a treat. I knew he was good. I knew he was very good. But I had no idea how good he was.

 

[SF11704]

Just reading through Maddux's wiki page was a treat. I knew he was good. I knew he was very good. But I had no idea how good he was.

Greg Maddux was a great pitcher.. Part of that long line of really good Brave pitchers. His brother (Mike) wasn't in the same class. Not sure but I think they may have also had Glavin at the same time as Maddux.