Game Thread: 7.19 Strip @ Queen City

[msgkings322]

I'm not trying to say that we don't get Ohtani. I'm leery about acquiring him for two months with no guarantee of keeping him (yes, I hate prospects getting traded but am mellowing on that somewhat. Ohtani would be worth it if we could keep him). I'm fine with going after him in free agency. I think he is a generational talent. He would be great for ticket and souvenir sales. However, I don't think that he is enough to overcome a really horrible outfield defense. Pederson's defense is generational in the sense of how awful it is and, I think, it would neutralize some of Ohtani's offensive contributions to the team.

I'm okay with Ohtani, as long as it doesn't mean Pederson with a glove on his hand, standing in the outfield, as a Giant. Pederson's worth is solely with his bat and that means he is only good for the team when he DHs. Maybe I am minimizing Ohtani's value somewhat but considering how good he is, it is weird to see how bad the teams he has played on (with Trout mostly, give or take some injuries of his own).

in the extremely unlikely event we get Ohtani, Pederson would probably get moved

 

[LHG]

in the extremely unlikely event we get Ohtani, Pederson would probably get moved

And I think that would be done more easily in the offseason. I like that scenario better because Pederson would be a free agent and signing Ohtani long term would be a lot better than having him for only 2 months. I just think that shipping off so much talent for 2 months of a player, no matter how good, with this team, having that kind of outfield defense, is not worth it.

 

[tzill]

in the extremely unlikely event we get Ohtani, Pederson would probably get moved

I think that's probably right. There would be no spot for him. And an outfield of Yaz/Haniger/Forto/Slater/Matos would be just fine. Assuming Matos isn't in the deal.

 

[tzill]

And I think that would be done more easily in the offseason. I like that scenario better because Pederson would be a free agent and signing Ohtani long term would be a lot better than having him for only 2 months. I just think that shipping off so much talent for 2 months of a player, no matter how good, with this team, having that kind of outfield defense, is not worth it.

Farhan discussed this on KNBR yesterday. Bottom line: he's not going to go all in without some sort of stipulation that a long term deal will be worked out.

 

[calsnowskier]

Farhan discussed this on KNBR yesterday. Bottom line: he's not going to go all in without some sort of stipulation that a long term deal will be worked out.

But that becomes a catch 22.

Ohtani wants to win. Agreeing to sign with us pre-trade increases his trade value, thus decreasing the depth of the Giants farm, thus decreasing his chances to win, thus decreasing his desire to sign with us, thus decreasing the likelihoid of a trade, etc.

 

[LHG]

But that becomes a catch 22.

Ohtani wants to win. Agreeing to sign with us pre-trade increases his trade value, thus decreasing the depth of the Giants farm, thus decreasing his chances to win, thus decreasing his desire to sign with us, thus decreasing the likelihoid of a trade, etc.

Not necessarily. I cannot remember how this works for sure, but I thought a team can go into negotiations with a player just before acquiring him. At least, it seems like that has happened in the past but I cannot remember who that was. If a team can do so, I don't see how that would increase the trade value for the Angels as they are still set to lose him at the end of the year.

 

[tzill]

But that becomes a catch 22.

Ohtani wants to win. Agreeing to sign with us pre-trade increases his trade value, thus decreasing the depth of the Giants farm, thus decreasing his chances to win, thus decreasing his desire to sign with us, thus decreasing the likelihoid of a trade, etc.

Not a compelling argument. Too many tenuous connections. What if the cost is guys who don't even make it to the show until 2026? How decreased are his chances to win in that scenario?

 

[tzill]

Not necessarily. I cannot remember how this works for sure, but I thought a team can go into negotiations with a player just before acquiring him. At least, it seems like that has happened in the past but I cannot remember who that was. If a team can do so, I don't see how that would increase the trade value for the Angels as they are still set to lose him at the end of the year.

I guess theoretically if the Angels granted permission for the Giants to discuss an extension and they KNEW/were fairly certian a deal would be worked out, it could make them ask for more in a trade. But as I've pointed out, all that is tenuous.

In all likelihood, if he were to come here and extend, the cost of the trade wouldn't deter him.

 

[calsnowskier]

If it were to cost Luciano AND Harrison (plus?), that certainly effects the depth of the Giants farm in the near term, as both look to be full graduates by the end of ‘24. If it only costs players who look to graduate in approx ‘26, who are we talking about? Arias? Eldridge? Crawford? I think of that crew, only Arias has any real trade value right now, but he would still only be part of a package, so who else goes?

if we are talking any minor leaguers EXCEPT Harrison/Luciano, than we are talking Whisenhunt, Black, Meckler, Brown, Fitz, Arias, etc. I am not certain that pool would be enough to get it done without including 3 or 4 (probably more).

Remember, if Moreno trades Ohtani, he will forever be the guy who traded Ohtani. But if he lets Ohtani walk, then Ohtani just left. He won’t be actually linked to his exit. It is the runaway train dilemma. Do you actively intervene to kill 1 person or do you not act, thus causing 4 people to die?

 

[tzill]

 

[pachyderm]

If it were to cost Luciano AND Harrison (plus?), that certainly effects the depth of the Giants farm in the near term, as both look to be full graduates by the end of ‘24. If it only costs players who look to graduate in approx ‘26, who are we talking about? Arias? Eldridge? Crawford? I think of that crew, only Arias has any real trade value right now, but he would still only be part of a package, so who else goes?

if we are talking any minor leaguers EXCEPT Harrison/Luciano, than we are talking Whisenhunt, Black, Meckler, Brown, Fitz, Arias, etc. I am not certain that pool would be enough to get it done without including 3 or 4 (probably more).

Remember, if Moreno trades Ohtani, he will forever be the guy who traded Ohtani. But if he lets Ohtani walk, then Ohtani just left. He won’t be actually linked to his exit. It is the runaway train dilemma. Do you actively intervene to kill 1 person or do you not act, thus causing 4 people to die?

His last couple of outings on the mound have been underwhelming to say the least. They won Friday but it was rough.