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Series Thread: 6) Miami Heat vs. 3) Philadelphia 76ers

ericd7633

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I think the question that needs to be asked and answered is this.

Who here would invest in season tickets, plus the time commitment it takes to go to the games and be happy if the team sucked intentionally or not, for as long as Philly did/has?
Sitting players who can play on purpose, just to suck worse (like Simmons last year)?

It's one think to know your team sucks, not care, and then just not invest the time, but with me, that wasn't/isn't the case.

FYI, the Sixers sucked for a decade before they started to tank. The only problem with the decade prior was that they didn't suck good enough.
 

bksballer89

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FYI, the Sixers sucked for a decade before they started to tank. The only problem with the decade prior was that they didn't suck good enough.

You didn't answer his question though.

What you guys need to understand about @TurnUpTheHeat is he looks at it from a different perspective than the rest of us because he is a season ticket holder and has been for several years now.....which is much different than most of us who maybe go to 1-2 games per season at most and are not investing in season tickets yearly and are just watching our favorite team on TV
 

ericd7633

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You didn't answer his question though.

What you guys need to understand about @TurnUpTheHeat is he looks at it from a different perspective than the rest of us because he is a season ticket holder and has been for several years now.....which is much different than most of us who maybe go to 1-2 games per season at most and are not investing in season tickets yearly and are just watching our favorite team on TV

I live 3 hours from Philly, so I only go to 1-2 games per year. My father in law has had season tickets for a while now, and he hasn't been this happy since the days of AI. To him the last 4 years of tanking were no different than the previous 10 of sucking. And at least during the years of tanking 2014-2017 there was something to look forward too, between 2004-2013, there was next to nothing to look forward to. It should tell you something about the state of the fans that we thought signing Elton Brand was a big deal.
 

flyerhawk

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You didn't answer his question though.

What you guys need to understand about @TurnUpTheHeat is he looks at it from a different perspective than the rest of us because he is a season ticket holder and has been for several years now.....which is much different than most of us who maybe go to 1-2 games per season at most and are not investing in season tickets yearly and are just watching our favorite team on TV

Do you think that there is a notable difference between win 20 games and winning 35?
 

bksballer89

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Do you think that there is a notable difference between win 20 games and winning 35?

As a regular fan sitting on my ass and not going to games? No.

As a season ticket holder? It is a notable difference because when the Sixers were winning 20 games, they were clearly tanking. I have to think when they were winning 35 games or whatever it was that they were actually trying to win games and give max effort.

I'm really not going to be a happy camper if I'm a season ticket holder spending a ton of money on great seats only to see a team go out there 41X every year and not even try to win games....Yeah it would tick me off to say the least.
 

ericd7633

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Do you think that there is a notable difference between win 20 games and winning 35?

That's a great point, during the tank years(2014-2017) the Sixers averaged 19 wins/season.
The previous 4 seasons(2010-2013) the Sixers averaged 34 wins.
The 4 years previous(2006-2009) to that the Sixers averaged 38 wins.
The 4 years previous(2002-2005) to that the Sixers averaged 42 wins.

Which 4 year period has put the Sixers in the best chance to succeed for the next 4 year stretch.
 

flyerhawk

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As a regular fan sitting on my ass and not going to games? No.

As a season ticket holder? It is a notable difference because when the Sixers were winning 20 games, they were clearly tanking. I have to think when they were winning 35 games or whatever it was that they were actually trying to win games and give max effort.

I'm really not going to be a happy camper if I'm a season ticket holder spending a ton of money on great seats only to see a team go out there 41X every year and not even try to win games....Yeah it would tick me off to say the least.

Except the Sixers DID try to win the games. They simply didn't the talent to beat other teams.

The Heat won 3 titles in the last 10 years. So I would imagine that they are still playing with house money with their fans.

If they were like the Twolves and missed the playoffs for 14 years, their fans may see things differently.
 

Heatles84

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And to be honest, the result of not going through that for almost all franchises is a 45-50 win ceiling and a first round playoff exit. The Heat are there now. No thanks. I want my team to shoot for more, even if it takes time to build.

I don't know. I like my team being somewhat competitive. Right now, Miami's a first round team. Thing's can change later on in the landscape.
 

bksballer89

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I don't know. I like my team being somewhat competitive. Right now, Miami's a first round team. Thing's can change later on in the landscape.

Same that 15 win team in the 2007-2008 season was rough.

The 25 & 36 win season prior to drafting Wade was just as bad
 

tlance

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I think the question that needs to be asked and answered is this.

Who here would invest in season tickets, plus the time commitment it takes to go to the games and be happy if the team sucked intentionally or not, for as long as Philly did/has?
Sitting players who can play on purpose, just to suck worse (like Simmons last year)?

It's one think to know your team sucks, not care, and then just not invest the time, but with me, that wasn't/isn't the case.

The whole concept of tanking is stupid really. Nobody is trying to lose. What the Sixers did, and did very well was trade current assets for future assets that have now hit in a big way. The process was an investment.

Whatever they lost in short term ticket sale so they will recoup tenfold over the next decade. Mediocre teams that think short term are doing it wrong. Real fans understand the rebuilding process. As I have said before, I WISH my Wizards had the patience to do this. But no. Instead They perennially toggle between 25 and 50 wins and are always irrelevant.
 

Heatles84

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No they didn't.

But, they had 2 franchise superstars already. They drafted Robinson when they sucked and they hit the lottery when he was injured. That was extremely lucky circumstance. Their entire run doesn't happen if Robinson stays healthy and they don't draft Duncan. As good as Manu and Parker are, they aren't franchise superstars.

Philly knew they needed stars, and they got them the only way they possibly could. San Antonio was ridiculously lucky to not have to suck for years and still get those two.

Robinson was well past his prime by the time Manu and Parker got drafted. I would not even come close to saying Robinson was a super star at that point. They're not franchise superstars, but both are players that are going to be in the hall of fame. If the Spurs don't hit on those picks, Tim Duncan doesn't have 5 rings.

Hell, the Spurs were smart to trade for Kawhi when they did; the latter of whom was a a mid-1st round pick.

It's great to say, suck for a prolonged period of time so that you can get a couple of marquee players. However, that doesn't always work out. The Kings have sucked for well over a decade (sorry @Bolts). The Suns have been abysmal since Nash was traded. The Magic have been god awful for nearly a decade now. At some point, you have to have some sort of direction not related to tanking.
 

Heatles84

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Same that 15 win team in the 2007-2008 season was rough.

The 25 & 36 win season prior to drafting Wade was just as bad

Yep. The Heat have had some bad seasons, like most franchises do. But they usually have a god awful year, than right the ship. I just can't put up with my franchise doing it for 5+ years straight.
 

ericd7633

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As a regular fan sitting on my ass and not going to games? No.

As a season ticket holder? It is a notable difference because when the Sixers were winning 20 games, they were clearly tanking. I have to think when they were winning 35 games or whatever it was that they were actually trying to win games and give max effort.

I'm really not going to be a happy camper if I'm a season ticket holder spending a ton of money on great seats only to see a team go out there 41X every year and not even try to win games....Yeah it would tick me off to say the least.

And now those same season ticket holders are set up to have a decade of unprecedented success. This was just the 3rd 50 win season for the Sixers since 1990.
 

tlance

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I don't know. I like my team being somewhat competitive. Right now, Miami's a first round team. Thing's can change later on in the landscape.

Not by a lot. At least not in the next couple years.

But then again, Miami is attractive to FAs even when not contending. So it is apples to oranges.
 

bksballer89

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The whole concept of tanking is stupid really. Nobody is trying to lose. What the Sixers did, and did very well was trade current assets for future assets that have now hit in a big way. The process was an investment.

Whatever they lost in short term ticket sale so they will recoup tenfold over the next decade. Mediocre teams that think short term are doing it wrong. Real fans understand the rebuilding process. As I have said before, I WISH my Wizards had the patience to do this. But no. Instead They perennially toggle between 25 and 50 wins and are always irrelevant.

But this doesn't always work. Look at the Kings, t-wolves, & Magic as great examples of this not working
 

bksballer89

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And now those same season ticket holders are set up to have a decade of unprecedented success. This was just the 3rd 50 win season for the Sixers since 1990.

I think it is a stretch to say they're a lock to be successful for 10 years. 5 years I'll give you but 10 years is so far out.

I can't tell you which teams will be good or bad in the 2027-2028 season
 

ericd7633

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Yep. The Heat have had some bad seasons, like most franchises do. But they usually have a god awful year, than right the ship. I just can't put up with my franchise doing it for 5+ years straight.

The Sixers TRIED to win in 2012-2013. They traded Iggy, Vucevic and Harkless for Andrew Bynum. They gutted the roster in hopes that they could build around Bynum. Obviously that trade bit the Sixers in the ass because Bynum never even played a game. I don't understand the notion that Sixers were going to be a competitive team heading into the 2013-2014 season? Even with Jrue Holiday they had NO shot at making the playoffs due to the Bynum trade. Had they kept Iggy, Vucevic and Harkless and added a piece in the draft with their lottery selection, maybe they could have competed for the playoffs, but the previous regime gutted the roster, and expedited the process of tanking(or trading assets for future assets down the road) and it started with traded Holiday for Noel and what turned out to be Saric.
 

ericd7633

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I think it is a stretch to say they're a lock to be successful for 10 years. 5 years I'll give you but 10 years is so far out.

I can't tell you which teams will be good or bad in the 2027-2028 season

I said they're set up for it, obviously injuries could happen. But their outlook now looks a hell of a lot better than it did between 2004-2013 when they were marred in average to below average the entire time.
 

flyerhawk

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But this doesn't always work. Look at the Kings, t-wolves, & Magic as great examples of this not working

Well I think the problem with some of these teams is that they DON'T do what Hinkie did. They trade future assets for shiny objects. Certainly the Kings did that. The Twolves tried to build a team and have some pieces but ultimately they weren't able to get the right pieces.
 

ericd7633

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But this doesn't always work. Look at the Kings, t-wolves, & Magic as great examples of this not working

The kings never completely bottomed out, and the T-wolves went a decade without hitting on a lottery pick other than Kevin Love. I mean between 2009 and 2013 they drafted Jhonny Flynn, Ricky Rubio, Wesley Johnson, Derrick Williams and Shabazz Muhammad. Only in 2014 did they start drafting better(counting Wiggins as that even though he technically wasn't a T-wolves pick). And the magic have made some bad decisions ever since they started landing in the lottery(2013). Traded away Oladipo and Sabonis, traded away Saric for Payton, drafted Hezonja, etc.
 
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