4 year extension for one of our best recent draft picks!

[Podunkparte]

Can we get a wellness check for @uwdawgfan?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

View attachment 272299

Can we get a wellness check for @uwdawgfan?

Interesting, uwdawfan going to go bonkers.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Well deserved!

 

[Screamin12th]

Front loaded, i am fine with it because he is locked up for 4 years at $14.5 million and they will only owe him under 4m over the final 2 years. He is top 3 easy in the NFL for punters in my eyes so it was earned. Also he is not just the punter but the holder on PAT's and FG and has been GREAT in doing that. Has he ever bobbled one? I would like to see them work more on the drop kicks because that could be a huge weapon in the onside kick game if done right. Can't be fair caught if it hits the ground first and imagine the ball going 12 yards down the field with 2+ seconds of hang time lmao. Yes I know it's a gimmick but I want to see it done like that not what they have tried before.

 

[Screamin12th]

Also, does anyone drop it inside the 20 better than Dickson? My guess would be no

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Also, does anyone drop it inside the 20 better than Dickson? My guess would be no

The answer is no, Dickson led the league inside 20 punts yet had 20 fewer punts then the lead guy. Now I get the Jets punter earned every penny of his salary and I'm shocked his leg didn't fall off, but Dickson's punt average was nearly 50 yards (only topped Buffalo's punter) whereas a lot of the punters with far more punts weren't even close (exception with Washington's punter).

Anyway, I was ECSTATIC when we drafted Dickson... all the draft grades from sites ranked it well below average while I gave it an A or A+... can't recall which, but Dickson has definitely worked out and has kept us in games. Imagine him with the 2013 defense.... teams would never breach their own 30 yard line. Jon Ryan did serve us well though, no taking away the play he provided... he just ran out of steam

 

[uwdawgfan]

The answer is no, Dickson led the league inside 20 punts yet had 20 fewer punts then the lead guy. Now I get the Jets punter earned every penny of his salary and I'm shocked his leg didn't fall off, but Dickson's punt average was nearly 50 yards (only topped Buffalo's punter) whereas a lot of the punters with far more punts weren't even close (exception with Washington's punter).

Anyway, I was ECSTATIC when we drafted Dickson... all the draft grades from sites ranked it well below average while I gave it an A or A+... can't recall which, but Dickson has definitely worked out and has kept us in games. Imagine him with the 2013 defense.... teams would never breach their own 30 yard line. Jon Ryan did serve us well though, no taking away the play he provided... he just ran out of steam

Yes...im so glad we didnt keep Ryan and draft a stud linebacker or cornerback or tackle in the fifth! We tricked everybody!

 

[blstoker]

Yes...im so glad we didnt keep Ryan and draft a stud linebacker or cornerback or tackle in the fifth! We tricked everybody!

Well, to be fair, no one else that year drafted a stud linebacker, corner or tackle after Dickson was drafted either.

 

[Podunkparte]

Can we get a wellness check for @uwdawgfan?

Yes...im so glad we didnt keep Ryan and draft a stud linebacker or cornerback or tackle in the fifth! We tricked everybody!

I'm sorry to inform you all that his brain is still broken.

Let's all wish him luck patching the holes in his drywall.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Na, flipping the field to help our defense is a bad thing.

 

[Screamin12th]

Yes...im so glad we didnt keep Ryan and draft a stud linebacker or cornerback or tackle in the fifth! We tricked everybody!

name that stud linebacker or conerback or tackle? When looking at all the picks after the Hawks made theirs in the 5th for Dickson i don't think i see another all pro on that list. I will admit i didn't go digging but who are these studs you mentioned because the hawks got a massive stud in Dickson.

You really are not still sour about this are you even after proving he was one of the best if not THE best 5th round picks that year in the NFL?

 

[kcden]

name that stud linebacker or conerback or tackle? When looking at all the picks after the Hawks made theirs in the 5th for Dickson i don't think i see another all pro on that list. I will admit i didn't go digging but who are these studs you mentioned because the hawks got a massive stud in Dickson.

You really are not still sour about this are you even after proving he was one of the best if not THE best 5th round picks that year in the NFL?

This is the guy I wanted them to take, there:

Tyrell Crosby Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Tyrell Crosby. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Don't know if we would be better with him and whomever we would have ended up with at Punter; Crosby hasn't popped as a pro bowl caliber tackle or anything, but I'm still not sure a "great" punter adds an enormous amount of value to the team, and we traded up to take Dickson. Anyone got a reasonable metric that says having a punter like Dickson over Jon Ryan or the like translates to more wins?

 

[kcden]

And I'm not saying that the move to go get Dickson was a bust, because it obviously wasn't.... I'm just not sure we are better off with him than a young tackle with upside.

Really, if Dickson didn't turn out to be an all-pro punter (like if he just ended up league-average), it was definitely a mistake to both trade up and use a 5th round pick on a punter. We ended up with the best case scenario, and it still seems questionable that its the right move.

 

[Screamin12th]

so personal opinion and you are allowed to have that, He was every bit worth the 5th and trading up for him. He flipped the field often and pinned clubs deep. When the Hawks were winning by less than 7 points which happened often last year ( 7 times ), he helped them win by constantly giving them long fields.

Jon Ryan was a good punter but he fell off and was done when the Hawks replaced him. Also Ryan wouldn't have been able to run for a first down out of his own endzone to seal the victory for the Hawks he would have tripped or got hurt or fumbled. Loved Jon Ryan but he was no athlete like Dickson.

ALSO!! Lets not just forget that he is the HOLDER FOR XP AND FIELDGOALS! He has been one of the best holders in the NFL in his short career. I could be wrong but i do not think he has bobbled a single snap and there have been some bad ones that he has easily handled.

 

[kcden]

so personal opinion and you are allowed to have that, He was every bit worth the 5th and trading up for him. He flipped the field often and pinned clubs deep. When the Hawks were winning by less than 7 points which happened often last year ( 7 times ), he helped them win by constantly giving them long fields.

Jon Ryan was a good punter but he fell off and was done when the Hawks replaced him. Also Ryan wouldn't have been able to run for a first down out of his own endzone to seal the victory for the Hawks he would have tripped or got hurt or fumbled. Loved Jon Ryan but he was no athlete like Dickson.

ALSO!! Lets not just forget that he is the HOLDER FOR XP AND FIELDGOALS! He has been one of the best holders in the NFL in his short career. I could be wrong but i do not think he has bobbled a single snap and there have been some bad ones that he has easily handled.

That's all well and good and I agree that he is one of the best punters in the league; I'm just not sure that the best punter in the league is worth all that much more than the 15th or 20th best. That's why I'm curious if there is some sort of (reasonable) advanced metric that estimates their value (relative to other positions, in particular).

While he was very good his rookie year and last year, I specifically recall him fucking up punts multiple times in 2019 that (in my mind at the time) did cost us games (maybe just one game, or made what should have been an easy game a tough game). He was 20th in the league in Punt Average that year (4th in inside the 20, so good there... but personally I don't think inside the 20 is much of a stat... push the stat to inside the 10 or 5 and I'll give that some value).

Not the same thing because they used a 3rd and not a 5th, but remember the Jags passed on RW (when they needed a franchise QB) and drafted Bryan Anger (Sp?).... he is/was most-definitely not the best punter in the league (but I am sure was rated as the best punter in that draft).

 

[returnofjakedog]

People seem to forget how good the Seahawks' special teams were during the LOB SB run years. Nearly all time record breaking.

A good ST unit is essential to success. A 5th for a pro-bowl level punter is a bargain

 

[Screamin12th]

That's all well and good and I agree that he is one of the best punters in the league; I'm just not sure that the best punter in the league is worth all that much more than the 15th or 20th best. That's why I'm curious if there is some sort of (reasonable) advanced metric that estimates their value (relative to other positions, in particular).

While he was very good his rookie year and last year, I specifically recall him fucking up punts multiple times in 2019 that (in my mind at the time) did cost us games (maybe just one game, or made what should have been an easy game a tough game). He was 20th in the league in Punt Average that year (4th in inside the 20, so good there... but personally I don't think inside the 20 is much of a stat... push the stat to inside the 10 or 5 and I'll give that some value).

Not the same thing because they used a 3rd and not a 5th, but remember the Jags passed on RW (when they needed a franchise QB) and drafted Bryan Anger (Sp?).... he is/was most-definitely not the best punter in the league (but I am sure was rated as the best punter in that draft).

I see people say the same thing for Fieldgoal kickers ( they are not worth it blah blah ) yet they are always one of if not the Highest scorers in the league. Punting isn't a point based position but it is a point reduction position. Even against a Bad Defense most teams have an extremely hard time scoring when they have to drive over 80 yards.

things that jump up a lot in longer drives. Turnovers! Int's and Fumbles increase by more than 10% when driving more than 80 yards. The likely hood of punting is over 60% when driving 81+ yards. The likely hood of scoring drops to 10%. Punting is HUGE it's just not a number that most people look up or understand how important it is. Just look at drive results based on yardage traveled. simple.

 

[kcden]

I see people say the same thing for Fieldgoal kickers ( they are not worth it blah blah ) yet they are always one of if not the Highest scorers in the league. Punting isn't a point based position but it is a point reduction position. Even against a Bad Defense most teams have an extremely hard time scoring when they have to drive over 80 yards.

things that jump up a lot in longer drives. Turnovers! Int's and Fumbles increase by more than 10% when driving more than 80 yards. The likely hood of punting is over 60% when driving 81+ yards. The likely hood of scoring drops to 10%. Punting is HUGE it's just not a number that most people look up or understand how important it is. Just look at drive results based on yardage traveled. simple.

Don't know man, from Super Bowl 48 to now the SB winning team's punter has averaged (max/min) the following ranks:

- Punt Average - 21st (12th/29th)
- Punt Net Average - 17th (7th/23rd)
- Punts inside 20 - 22nd (11th/27th)

Doesn't sound like the best of the best think that they need an all-pro punter. The only SB loser that I saw that had a punter ranked generally in the top 5 or so of those categories in that timeframe was the Rams in 2019 (2018 Season).

 

[Screamin12th]

Don't know man, from Super Bowl 48 to now the SB winning team's punter has averaged (max/min) the following ranks:

- Punt Average - 21st (12th/29th)
- Punt Net Average - 17th (7th/23rd)
- Punts inside 20 - 22nd (11th/27th)

Doesn't sound like the best of the best think that they need an all-pro punter. The only SB loser that I saw that had a punter ranked generally in the top 5 or so of those categories in that timeframe was the Rams in 2019 (2018 Season).

Thing is the Hawks got a all pro punter, a top flight holder and a uniquely talented player that HAS made a impact on this team and you would rather have someone they might have released all ready just because? Am I missing something here?

If they don't win another Superbowl while Dickson is the punter it was not because the Hawks pick him in the 5th and not some dept talent at best player.

 

[kcden]

Thing is the Hawks got a all pro punter, a top flight holder and a uniquely talented player that HAS made a impact on this team and you would rather have someone they might have released all ready just because? Am I missing something here?

If they don't win another Superbowl while Dickson is the punter it was not because the Hawks pick him in the 5th and not some dept talent at best player.

I'm not disappointed that we drafted Dickson, or really that we traded up for him, but my point is even with him ending up as an all-pro, it isn't really some sort of homerun pick, and if he had turned out league-average or worse it would have been a waste of assets/bust. You said "punting is HUGE"... I disagree. I think having a great punter is nice, but not necessary. Having league-average (probably even worse) is fine and not worth giving up a bunch of value elsewhere to correct. Having a terrible punter would definitely hurt, but I don't think there are many of those that stay in the NFL more than a few games.