Series Thread: 3) Miami Heat (48-34) vs 6) Charlotte Hornets (48-34)

[WiggyRuss]

No doubt that when they all got together they had to get the biggest room in the biggest building possible just to fit the egos in.

I just find it hilarious that Lebron would leave because Riley and the Heat were arrogant. Creates a bit of a "pot meet kettle" situation. The last thing any of these guys should ever be doing is complaining about someone else's ego. You have to have a massive ego to reach the level that guys like Lebron, Riley, etc. have reached. The level of self confidence to even try to get to that level has to come close to qualifying as a mental illness.

i mean- i agree- its a tough situation.

If i am an owner- i give LeBron what he wants- because LeBron means I am in the Finals.

if Riley gave LeBron what he wanted - Riley would have cut himself off at the knees

and the thing is- i think to a certain extent lebron likes to KNOW he has the power- even if he doesnt wield it.

Those two were destined to bump heads from the beginning i think. ---the massive ego thing could be said about Gilbert too with his succcess'- which is why i give him ample credit for swallowing a lot of his pride for the betterment of both the team, and the area.

 

[trojanfan12]

i mean- i agree- its a tough situation.

If i am an owner- i give LeBron what he wants- because LeBron means I am in the Finals.

if Riley gave LeBron what he wanted - Riley would have cut himself off at the knees

and the thing is- i think to a certain extent lebron likes to KNOW he has the power- even if he doesnt wield it.

Those two were destined to bump heads from the beginning i think. ---the massive ego thing could be said about Gilbert too with his succcess'- which is why i give him ample credit for swallowing a lot of his pride for the betterment of both the team, and the area.

No doubt. In it's own way, Lebron/Riley was a bit like Kobe/Phil. Both have massive egos, both have plenty of reason to have massive egos and sooner or later, those egos are going to clash.

Where I think Lebron's ego gets in the way is with him wanting to play "pseudo-GM." I don't have a problem with GM's and owners asking a stars opinion on roster moves that they are considering, but Lebron appears to try to act as if he's the GM.

The Lakers gave Kobe plenty of sway and asked his opinion on potential moves, but end of the day, there was always a clear understanding of their roles. The same could be said of Lebron's 4 years in Miami. In Cleveland, those roles don't appear to be nearly as defined as they should be.

 

[LAD]

i mean- i agree- its a tough situation.

If i am an owner- i give LeBron what he wants- because LeBron means I am in the Finals.

if Riley gave LeBron what he wanted - Riley would have cut himself off at the knees

and the thing is- i think to a certain extent lebron likes to KNOW he has the power- even if he doesnt wield it.

Those two were destined to bump heads from the beginning i think. ---the massive ego thing could be said about Gilbert too with his succcess'- which is why i give him ample credit for swallowing a lot of his pride for the betterment of both the team, and the area.

Ummm....this doesn't make sense since Riley DIDN'T give LBJ whatever he wanted yet they still won TWICE-Back 2 Back. And on the flip side Gilbert HAS given LBJ whatever he wants and they only make it to the FINALS. Something in the milk ain't clean.

 

[gordontrue]

I'd be willing to bet that if the refs did a better job, there would be a whole lot less complaining from players and coaches.

I really doubt it. Basketball officiating is so subjective and emotionally charged. There will always be complaining.

I am probably in the minority, but I think the nba refs do a good job. They make mistakes, of course, but that is an unavoidable part of this game.

Not to say the nba shouldn't be doing everything they can to get the best refs and eliminate as many mistakes as possible, though.

 

[gordontrue]

L2M report on game 5 days no call on wade was correct:

• Zeller's potential shooting foul on Wade's baseline jumper @ 0:05 also ruled an correct no-call ("Zeller (CHA) comes towards Wade (MIA) from across the restricted area, planting his foot and jumping vertically to defend Wade’s shot. Zeller absorbs contact when it occurs and, while his arms are not completely vertical, multiple angles confirm they do not make contact with Wade. Therefore, Zeller maintains a legal guarding position as he attempts to defend the shot.") [verticality rules and video here]
• Lee's potential shooting foul on the same Wade jumper @ 0:05 also ruled an correct no-call ("Lee (CHA) makes contact with the ball during Wade’s (MIA) upward shooting motion, which makes his subsequent, minor arm contact with Wade incidental. Lee then makes contact with Wade’s arm again at about 00:04.9, however, Wade has already lost possession of the ball.")

 

[lakersrule]

Looked like a foul to me during real time. I never bothered to look closely at replays. L2M report saying the refs got it right. Miami lost because of garbage late possessions though, not the refs.

 

[lakersrule]

I really doubt it. Basketball officiating is so subjective and emotionally charged. There will always be complaining.

I am probably in the minority, but I think the nba refs do a good job. They make mistakes, of course, but that is an unavoidable part of this game.

Not to say the nba shouldn't be doing everything they can to get the best refs and eliminate as many mistakes as possible, though.

I agree with you. It's a fast contact sport. Not the easiest to officiate. Missed calls/bad calls have happened ever since I've been watching (30+ years). But just like everything in this social media age, they get criticized more now.

 

[Montalban]

Hmmmm....First line:

Dozens of Heat fans streamed out of AmericanAirlines Arena Tuesday night in the final minute of the game

Told ya

 

[Montalban]

Yeah, I remember when that happened.

That's not unique to Heat fans.

It happens in other sports.

Seattle Seahawks supporters often are lauded as the best fans in the NFL, if not in all pro sports. They refer to themselves collectively as "The 12th Man" and individually as "12s," get very, very loud, and seem to rally around their up-there-in-the-Pacific-Northwest-ness.

But some leave before the game is over.

Still, remember the labels thrown at Miami Heat fans when some left before their team's comeback in Game 6 of the 2013 NBA Finals?

If the "best fans" can do it, this kind of proves it's not just a "bad sports town" thing, no?

Seahawks fans leave early, can't get back in

The sickening thing was them all trying to run back into the arena. No class at all.

 

[lakersrule]

L2M report on game 5 days no call on wade was correct:

• Zeller's potential shooting foul on Wade's baseline jumper @ 0:05 also ruled an correct no-call ("Zeller (CHA) comes towards Wade (MIA) from across the restricted area, planting his foot and jumping vertically to defend Wade’s shot. Zeller absorbs contact when it occurs and, while his arms are not completely vertical, multiple angles confirm they do not make contact with Wade. Therefore, Zeller maintains a legal guarding position as he attempts to defend the shot.") [verticality rules and video here]
• Lee's potential shooting foul on the same Wade jumper @ 0:05 also ruled an correct no-call ("Lee (CHA) makes contact with the ball during Wade’s (MIA) upward shooting motion, which makes his subsequent, minor arm contact with Wade incidental. Lee then makes contact with Wade’s arm again at about 00:04.9, however, Wade has already lost possession of the ball.")

I just watched the replay. There's no way Zeller was vertical on his jump. He was coming across the key then jumped straight up defying physics? No

 

[LAD]

L2M report on game 5 days no call on wade was correct:

• Zeller's potential shooting foul on Wade's baseline jumper @ 0:05 also ruled an correct no-call ("Zeller (CHA) comes towards Wade (MIA) from across the restricted area, planting his foot and jumping vertically to defend Wade’s shot. Zeller absorbs contact when it occurs and, while his arms are not completely vertical, multiple angles confirm they do not make contact with Wade. Therefore, Zeller maintains a legal guarding position as he attempts to defend the shot.") [verticality rules and video here]
• Lee's potential shooting foul on the same Wade jumper @ 0:05 also ruled an correct no-call ("Lee (CHA) makes contact with the ball during Wade’s (MIA) upward shooting motion, which makes his subsequent, minor arm contact with Wade incidental. Lee then makes contact with Wade’s arm again at about 00:04.9, however, Wade has already lost possession of the ball.")

I agree that there's always going to be complaining. The ones that stand out the most are the easy calls that they fail to make. There's plenty of plays (involving every team I'm sure) that are clearly missed. Those are the times where there is less patience/understanding when they fail to officiate accurately.

 

[bksballer89]

I just watched the replay. There's no way Zeller was vertical on his jump. He was coming across the key then jumped straight up defying physics? No

Yeah I see why players don't read L2M reports. Zeller wasn't vertical at all and also there was body contact

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

i mean- i agree- its a tough situation.

If i am an owner- i give LeBron what he wants- because LeBron means I am in the Finals.

if Riley gave LeBron what he wanted - Riley would have cut himself off at the knees

and the thing is- i think to a certain extent lebron likes to KNOW he has the power- even if he doesnt wield it.

Those two were destined to bump heads from the beginning i think. ---the massive ego thing could be said about Gilbert too with his succcess'- which is why i give him ample credit for swallowing a lot of his pride for the betterment of both the team, and the area.

The problem with all of it is the annual opt outs IMO.
I'm not giving anyone anything they want if they won't at least give me commitment.

As far as the Heat, they would have been runner ups last year, and at best the same thing this year.
Probably not good enough to beat the WC winner with Bosh, let alone without.

The way these playoffs seem to be playing out, I can't envision the Cavs ever having a better chance of winning.
If they don't, then giving him all the power equates to no more then a case displaying runner up trophies.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

hey i can get on board with the thinking that LeBron has a massive ego too and that played a large role in it too- it def did.....its part of the reason why he was so mad about riley taking the credit and having that ill advised press conference imploring everyone to come back and not to give up where he sounded condescending to lebron.

its why I give Gilbert credit. The guy started with nothing, and built himsef up into one of the most successful businessmen in the world, and those guys typically dont back down or take shit. He swallowed his pride because he realized that LeBron in Cleveland gives his team the best chance to win a title and also brings a lot of joy to the north east ohio area - in the pride they have in LeBron.

You act like his mind wasn't already made up before that press conference.
And, when did Riley ever not give James credit?
He referred to him as the best player in the world.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Bullshit. Those assholes were streaming out of the stadium by the hundreds and then running to get back in. The worst thing I've ever seen from fans in any sport. bandwagon all the way.

There were hundreds leaving, then trying to get back in, but the other 20,000 or so stayed.
I was there.

 

[trojanfan12]

I really doubt it. Basketball officiating is so subjective and emotionally charged. There will always be complaining.

I am probably in the minority, but I think the nba refs do a good job. They make mistakes, of course, but that is an unavoidable part of this game.

Not to say the nba shouldn't be doing everything they can to get the best refs and eliminate as many mistakes as possible, though.

Of course there will always be complaining, there always has been. But if the refs are better, the complaining will be less.

I don't think the refs do that great of a job. Even the best refs miss things, but these guys miss things that are blatantly obvious on a regular basis. Players and fans in every sport complain about the refs, but the NBA is the only one where there is a large number of fans who think that the refs intentionally do things to effect the outcome. Unfortunately, the Donaghy scandal doesn't help that perception.

I'm not saying that refereeing in the NBA is easy, or that I could do better job. But then, I'm not being trained and paid to be an NBA ref.

I don't know if it happens already or not, but I'd be sending the worst refs to the D-League and bringing up the best ones from the D-League.

 

[Montalban]

There were hundreds leaving, then trying to get back in, but the other 20,000 or so stayed.
I was there.

Disgraceful wasn't it? Never seen anything like it.

 

[Montalban]

Of course there will always be complaining, there always has been. But if the refs are better, the complaining will be less.

I don't think the refs do that great of a job. Even the best refs miss things, but these guys miss things that are blatantly obvious on a regular basis. Players and fans in every sport complain about the refs, but the NBA is the only one where there is a large number of fans who think that the refs intentionally do things to effect the outcome. Unfortunately, the Donaghy scandal doesn't help that perception.

I'm not saying that refereeing in the NBA is easy, or that I could do better job. But then, I'm not being trained and paid to be an NBA ref.

I don't know if it happens already or not, but I'd be sending the worst refs to the D-League and bringing up the best ones from the D-League.

Like they do in European soccer leagues. The bottom three teams go to the minor leagues and are replaced by good ones from the minors.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Disgraceful wasn't it? Never seen anything like it.

No.
I don't really give a shit what other people choose to do.
It's a nightmare getting out of there.
It was late.
I'm sure they, as well as most thought it was over.
In hind site, yeah, they missed something special but most of them were probably there for the next game were they saw the ultimate sports celebration.

 

[Montalban]

No.
I don't really give a shit what other people choose to do.
It's a nightmare getting out of there.
It was late.
I'm sure they, as well as most thought it was over.
In hind site, yeah, they missed something special but most of them were probably there for the next game were they saw the ultimate sports celebration.

Heat fans as a whole are the absolute worst