Series Thread: 2nd Round: Chicago Bulls vs Cleveland Cavaliers

[gordontrue]

I don't see it. I will admit I haven't seen or remembered every single Lebron game, but every time he needs to make a clutch basket to win the game, he bricks it.

Yep... you clearly haven't seen his games.

 

[gordontrue]

I think TT will be an important factor taking dump-off passes / finishing alley-oops with the way that Noah likes to help off his man so much.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Yep... you clearly haven't seen his games.

Do you mind finding these buzzer beaters Lebron has hit in big games? I'm not talking about draining a few shots in the final minutes of the game, I'm talking about scoring a bucket on their last possession to win the game. He's probably done it in the regular season a few times, but I'm willing to bet money he hasn't done it in the playoffs. Every time is see Lebron play he reminds me of a player who could've been one of the most talented ever, but he has 0 killer instinct.

 

[anotheridiot]

Thompson has to have a body kept on him, he created so many second chances against the bulls by keeping an offensive rebound alive. Its truly basics, box out. Actually, a box and 1 defense would probably be a good thing, let Jimmy hawk LeBron, the other four in zone, forget the switch problems.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I don't see it. I will admit I haven't seen or remembered every single Lebron game, but every time he needs to make a clutch basket to win the game, he bricks it. The closest he ever got to a moment like that was when he almost lost the ball, and passed it to Ray allen for a three in desperation and Ray allen hit it. He will never be the buzzer beater guy in the playoffs, but he is and will be a guy that can get his team titles. I've seen him miss free throws in the clutch, I've seen him miss lay ups in the clutch, and I've seen him kiss I'll advised three pointers in the clutch. I'm not saying he doesn't make big shots in the final few minutes, but he rarely makes shots that will end the game at the buzzer. Hitting huge shots like that is a skill that ordinary players like robert horry and Steve Kerr have had, but superstars like Lebron do not possess.

Well you simply havent watched him play much then lol. There was a stat a year or two ago and Lebron was the most clutch player in the NBA in the last 2 mins and the next player wasnt even close.

He has hit a bunch of clutch shots, especially in the playoffs. They might not be buzzer beater to take the lead but still clutch.

Looks like you lost that money too. Orlando a couple years ago he hit a 3 pointer, a buzzer beater.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Well you simply havent watched him play much then lol. There was a stat a year or two ago and Lebron was the most clutch player in the NBA in the last 2 mins and the next player wasnt even close.

He has hit a bunch of clutch shots, especially in the playoffs. They might not be buzzer beater to take the lead but still clutch.

Looks like you lost that money too. Orlando a couple years ago he hit a 3 pointer, a buzzer beater.

Okay, there's one in a series he ultimately lost, right? And that clutch stat is meaningless. As I have said Lebron is great. He'll put you into position to win, but won't get you the final bucket to put you over the top. He shrinks when he's legitimately challenged. It's why he went to Miami to play with a clutch Wade. It's why he attracted a clutch Ray allen to Miami. He doesn't have those clutch players around him anymore. Kyrie might be but we don't know yet. If it's game 7 and the Bulls are up one with Cleveland bringing the ball up, I want Lebron taking the shot. Not only will he be keyed in on, but I can almost guarantee he'll miss it. I've seen him miss more clutch fts to win/put games away than I have seen him make a bucket at the end of the game to win. It's what sets the true greatest of all time players, like Jordan, from the great players like Lebron.

 

[gordontrue]

Do you mind finding these buzzer beaters Lebron has hit in big games? I'm not talking about draining a few shots in the final minutes of the game, I'm talking about scoring a bucket on their last possession to win the game. He's probably done it in the regular season a few times, but I'm willing to bet money he hasn't done it in the playoffs. Every time is see Lebron play he reminds me of a player who could've been one of the most talented ever, but he has 0 killer instinct.

First of all... I personally think that only caring about final possession buzzer beaters is silly. Quite often the best teams and best players defeat their opponent by hitting timely shots in the last few minutes of the game and have the Win in hand by the time the last possession comes around.

But if you really want to see a sample of some of his playoff game winning shots... here are some I can think of:

- 2013 ECF Game 1, Heat v Pacers. LeBron hits game winning shot in OT as time expires... Heat win 103-102
- 2009 ECF Game 2, Cavs v Magic. LeBron hits game winning 3 as time expires... Cavs win 96-95
- 2007 ECF Game 5, Cavs v Pistons. LeBron scores 25 of final 29 points, including game winner in double OT, cavs win 109-107
- 2006 Cavs v Wizards 1st round. LeBron hits game winniner in OT... Cavs win 121-120.
- 2006 Cavs v Wizards LeBron hits game winner in Game 3... Cavs win 97-96

There's likely more... but, again, the real clutch performances are like what he did in Game 7 of the 2013 Finals... or Game 7 of the 2013 ECF... etc, etc. No buzzer-beater... but 4th quarter dagger after 4th quarter dagger.

Go watch either of those games and come back and tell me LeBron isn't clutch.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

First of all... I personally think that only caring about final possession buzzer beaters is silly. Quite often the best teams and best players defeat their opponent by hitting timely shots in the last few minutes of the game and have the Win in hand by the time the last possession comes around.

But if you really want to see a sample of some of his playoff game winning shots... here are some I can think of:

- 2013 ECF Game 1, Heat v Pacers. LeBron hits game winning shot in OT as time expires... Heat win 103-102
- 2009 ECF Game 2, Cavs v Magic. LeBron hits game winning 3 as time expires... Cavs win 96-95
- 2007 ECF Game 5, Cavs v Pistons. LeBron scores 25 of final 29 points, including game winner in double OT, cavs win 109-107
- 2006 Cavs v Wizards 1st round. LeBron hits game winniner in OT... Cavs win 121-120.
- 2006 Cavs v Wizards LeBron hits game winner in Game 3... Cavs win 97-96

There's likely more... but, again, the real clutch performances are like what he did in Game 7 of the 2013 Finals... or Game 7 of the 2013 ECF... etc, etc. No buzzer-beater... but 4th quarter dagger after 4th quarter dagger.

Go watch either of those games and come back and tell me LeBron isn't clutch.

Okay, point made. I still think being clutch is one of Lebrons weak points, but he has hit buzzer beaters before. I don't like the clutch stats in the last two minutes though because Lebrons probably has the highest usage rate in the entire nba. He's probably got the ball in his hands with the expectations that he will create something more than other NBA player. I think that is the reason for him leading the NBA in that clutch stat (which I believe is the stats he puts up in then inalienable 2 minutes of any game that is within 5 points.) I don't think stats can encapsulate whether a player is clutch or not. Obviously clutch players like Ray Allen, Steve Kerr, Robert Horry, etc won't be called upon to get buckets at the end of the game as much as a player like Lebron will just based off offensive talent.

 

[purguy12]

I agree LBJ isn't as clutch as most super stars. He would rather pass the ball then take the last shot.

 

[GNG]

Cavs either are going to come out guns blazing in G1 or rusty as heck

The loss of Love will be costly.

 

[GNG]

I agree LBJ isn't as clutch as most super stars. He would rather pass the ball then take the last shot.

He has proven over the past 5 years that he is clutch.

 

[purguy12]

He has proven over the past 5 years that he is clutch.

I disagree

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Here are my keys to the series for both the Bulls and the Cavs

Keys for the Cavs
1. Lebron needs to play the 4 a lot. I Foresee him starting there and it would create huge mismatches for the Bulls.
2. Shawn Marion and Mike Miller need to step up. The loss of Love puts a little more stress on the matrix to produce. I think he'll get increased minutes, and play the four quite a bit to stretch the floor. Lebron will play the three if the Matrix can stretch the floor from the power forward position and he could be every bit as effective as when Love was healthy. Mike Miller needs to step up while JR Smith is out. He will also be needed in the small ball line ups.
3. Kyrie will be needed to hit big shots and continue to score. It might be a little more difficult than it was against the Celtics.
4. Mozgov has to control the paint and neutralize Pau gasol. Thompson will need to create second chance opportunities through his offensive rebounding and also play some big minutes.

 

[lebron23james]

Cavs are 2.5 times favorites to win

 

[purguy12]

He has proven over the past 5 years that he is clutch.

I wish I can find the stat but his percentages when he has a chance to win the game or tie the game he passed the ball around 59% of the time. He doesn't like taking the last shot. Damn I wish I can find it. It was on ESPN when they talked about it. It was right before the playoffs. He is a little something. Im still trying to find it.

Eastern Conference guard on LeBron, MJ or Kobe taking the shot
"That's like ranking the shortest giant. I'd want the ball in LeBron's hands at the end of the game, but I'd want him to pass to Kobe or Jordan for the last shot. And don't forget, LeBron is not a great free throw shooter either."

10-year vet on LeBron and flopping
"Yes, he's a flopper, maybe the biggest flopper in the league. But he's doing exactly what anybody who gets calls is going to do. Why would you not try to get fouls if you can?"

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Keys for them Bulls
1. Lebron will most likely see time at the four unless his offseason weight loss prevents him from doing sol.this means players like Brooks, mirotic, snell, and maybe event lore will be called upon. They need to be able to play in small ball line ups and hold their own.
2. They needs to continue to share the ball. Channel their inner Pistons (the teams that won theirs sat title) and give the ball to the threat being guarded by the Cavs worst defender on then look and exploit it. They need to ta take lebrons defense out of the equation.
3. Defense! Butler needs to get in Lebrons head, taj and noah need to patrol the paint and block some shots. Gasols defense needs to be masked somehow because he's terrible at it. She'll and maybe Mirotic need to be able to take turns on Lebron. Rose needs to get in Kylie's head as well.
4. Take advantage of jr smiths suspension. They need to take 1 or both from Cleveland from the firsts woman games.
5. Atleast two of Rose, Butler, Gasol, and Mirotic need to get hot from the field in each game. They need Tom be able to a Orem witlebron locking down out hottest offensive player.

 

[purguy12]

Here are my keys to the series for both the Bulls and the Cavs

Keys for the Cavs
1. Lebron needs to play the 4 a lot. I Foresee him starting there and it would create huge mismatches for the Bulls.
2. Shawn Marion and Mike Miller need to step up. The loss of Love puts a little more stress on the matrix to produce. I think he'll get increased minutes, and play the four quite a bit to stretch the floor. Lebron will play the three if the Matrix can stretch the floor from the power forward position and he could be every bit as effective as when Love was healthy. Mike Miller needs to step up while JR Smith is out. He will also be needed in the small ball line ups.
3. Kyrie will be needed to hit big shots and continue to score. It might be a little more difficult than it was against the Celtics.
4. Mozgov has to control the paint and neutralize Pau gasol. Thompson will need to create second chance opportunities through his offensive rebounding and also play some big minutes.

He has proven over the past 5 years that he is clutch.

Ok I did some research. LBJ is k in clutch moments. He does like to pass the ball in those moments but I found out that he actually has better % points in these moments the Kobe. Kobe does have more shots because he likes those moments. LBJ tries to make the right play(can't knock him for it), and in most cases its passing the ball. MJ is way better then both. Its not even close. What hurts LBJ when people talk about clutch is that he isn't a clutch Free throw shooter and he passes the ball more then the others.

Overall conclusion I learned LBJ is clutch but he isn't that Killer clutch. He is more about making the right play. That is ok. So I was wrong about my opinion on LBJ but was right about him not having that killer instinct.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Ok I did some research. LBJ is k in clutch moments. He does like to pass the ball in those moments but I found out that he actually has better % points in these moments the Kobe. Kobe does have more shots because he likes those moments. LBJ tries to make the right play(can't knock him for it), and in most cases its passing the ball. MJ is way better then both. Its not even close. What hurts LBJ when people talk about clutch is that he isn't a clutch Free throw shooter and he passes the ball more then the others.

Overall conclusion I learned LBJ is clutch but he isn't that Killer clutch. He is more about making the right play. That is ok. So I was wrong about my opinion on LBJ but was right about him not having that killer instinct.

Well said.

 

[trojanfan12]

Ok I did some research. LBJ is k in clutch moments. He does like to pass the ball in those moments but I found out that he actually has better % points in these moments the Kobe. Kobe does have more shots because he likes those moments. LBJ tries to make the right play(can't knock him for it), and in most cases its passing the ball. MJ is way better then both. Its not even close. What hurts LBJ when people talk about clutch is that he isn't a clutch Free throw shooter and he passes the ball more then the others.

Overall conclusion I learned LBJ is clutch but he isn't that Killer clutch. He is more about making the right play. That is ok. So I was wrong about my opinion on LBJ but was right about him not having that killer instinct.

Yeah, I don't think the issue with Lebron has been his ability to hit clutch shots (outside of free throws). When he has had to shoot them, he's done an above average job of hitting them. The knock on him is his reluctance to take them. I don't really buy the "he wants to make the right basketball play" argument because often times, what is the right play at the 6 minute mark of the 2nd or 3rd quarter is not the right play at the end of the game.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

LeBron's mindset in the Finals vs Dallas can definitely be questioned.
Ever since that series it can't be.
He's not afraid to take any shot, but he's also not afraid to defer to clutch shot makers like Ray Allen and a few other players the Heat had.
I'll assume he'll start tomorrow's series trusting Kyrie and Co,, but if they aren't hitting it will turn into James vs the Bulls.