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2024 Allstar Game

Brightboat

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From mid 1953 to 1954, Robin Roberts threw 28 complete games in a row, including a 17 inning game he won 7-6. It’s really different now LOL
It makes me wonder why, when records are constantly being broken and training and diet methods are so much more advanced, why todays pitchers are so pussified
 

msgkings322

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It makes me wonder why, when records are constantly being broken and training and diet methods are so much more advanced, why todays pitchers are so pussified
It's the opposite actually, today's pitchers are monsters compared to the old days. Back then a guy would maybe top out at 93-94 mph if they were big time fastball pitchers and they might have 2 other pitches, a curve and a change or whatever. Now guys do all sorts of crazy twists and strains on their arms with 2 seamers and 4 seamers and sliders and sweepers and slurves and all the rest, plus throwing 95 is no big deal anymore. Meanwhile the hitters are also much better, stronger, faster, better trained.

I'm not surprised with the changes to the game, got nothing to do with toughness and everything to do with the advances in skill and power of the pitchers today. Also the advanced metrics showing that multiple pitchers each game give you a better chance to win than just one. 3rd time through the order is a real thing.
 

msgkings322

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Word of the day right there.

Respect.
Just occurred to me...'being a pussy' surely derives from pussy-cat, which is probably also where that word for a vag comes from, so they are somewhat interchangeable. Well, 'pussy-llanimous' kind of works too, since it basically means 'being a pussy' too LOL
 

Brightboat

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It's the opposite actually, today's pitchers are monsters compared to the old days. Back then a guy would maybe top out at 93-94 mph if they were big time fastball pitchers and they might have 2 other pitches, a curve and a change or whatever. Now guys do all sorts of crazy twists and strains on their arms with 2 seamers and 4 seamers and sliders and sweepers and slurves and all the rest, plus throwing 95 is no big deal anymore. Meanwhile the hitters are also much better, stronger, faster, better trained.

I'm not surprised with the changes to the game, got nothing to do with toughness and everything to do with the advances in skill and power of the pitchers today. Also the advanced metrics showing that multiple pitchers each game give you a better chance to win than just one. 3rd time through the order is a real thing.
Nah, advances in skill and power should bring about durability and stamina not restrictions in the amount of pitches they can throw. 3rd time through the order is a real thing but what I see is managers counting pitches in making their decision to bring in another pitcher, not how many times he's been through the lineup
 

msgkings322

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Nah, advances in skill and power should bring about durability and stamina not restrictions in the amount of pitches they can throw. 3rd time through the order is a real thing but what I see is managers counting pitches in making their decision to bring in another pitcher, not how many times he's been through the lineup
It pleases me that your disagreement confirms my correctness.

You really don't make good arguments when it comes to baseball.
 

calsnowskier

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Nah, advances in skill and power should bring about durability and stamina not restrictions in the amount of pitches they can throw. 3rd time through the order is a real thing but what I see is managers counting pitches in making their decision to bring in another pitcher, not how many times he's been through the lineup
In yesteryear, SPs would not throw at 110% in the first couple innings. They were expected to eat innings, and they paced themselves accordingly. Today, SP are really just glorified RP, so they are expected to throw 110% every pitch.

Further, there are much better analytics today than there was 20, 30, 40 years ago. Today, hitters know that your FB is a setup for an outside slider in the dirt. The numbers prove it. That analysis didn’t exist 40 years ago. There is also much more 4K video of every pitchers delivery that batters can review while in the dugout. Batters don’t need to burn 2 pitches getting used to Tyler’s submarine delivery.

The game is infinitely more specialized than it was when we were kids. More platoons from the offensive side mean fewer batters faced for the SP.
 

msgkings322

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In yesteryear, SPs would not throw at 110% in the first couple innings. They were expected to eat innings, and they paced themselves accordingly. Today, SP are really just glorified RP, so they are expected to throw 110% every pitch.

Further, there are much better analytics today than there was 20, 30, 40 years ago. Today, hitters know that your FB is a setup for an outside slider in the dirt. The numbers prove it. That analysis didn’t exist 40 years ago. There is also much more 4K video of every pitchers delivery that batters can review while in the dugout. Batters don’t need to burn 2 pitches getting used to Tyler’s submarine delivery.

The game is infinitely more specialized than it was when we were kids. More platoons from the offensive side mean fewer batters faced for the SP.
Excellent post :clap:
 

sf1giantfan

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In yesteryear, SPs would not throw at 110% in the first couple innings. They were expected to eat innings, and they paced themselves accordingly. Today, SP are really just glorified RP, so they are expected to throw 110% every pitch.

Further, there are much better analytics today than there was 20, 30, 40 years ago. Today, hitters know that your FB is a setup for an outside slider in the dirt. The numbers prove it. That analysis didn’t exist 40 years ago. There is also much more 4K video of every pitchers delivery that batters can review while in the dugout. Batters don’t need to burn 2 pitches getting used to Tyler’s submarine delivery.

The game is infinitely more specialized than it was when we were kids. More platoons from the offensive side mean fewer batters faced for the SP.

Yesterdays pitchers were just tougher and didn’t have time to bleed.
 

Brightboat

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In yesteryear, SPs would not throw at 110% in the first couple innings. They were expected to eat innings, and they paced themselves accordingly. Today, SP are really just glorified RP, so they are expected to throw 110% every pitch.

Further, there are much better analytics today than there was 20, 30, 40 years ago. Today, hitters know that your FB is a setup for an outside slider in the dirt. The numbers prove it. That analysis didn’t exist 40 years ago. There is also much more 4K video of every pitchers delivery that batters can review while in the dugout. Batters don’t need to burn 2 pitches getting used to Tyler’s submarine delivery.

The game is infinitely more specialized than it was when we were kids. More platoons from the offensive side mean fewer batters faced for the SP.
That all makes sense but it does not account for the limited amount of pitches pitchers throw today and the amount of injuries they sustain and all the "tired arm" stuff we hear about today.
 

calsnowskier

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That all makes sense but it does not account for the limited amount of pitches pitchers throw today and the amount of injuries they sustain and all the "tired arm" stuff we hear about today.
Did you even read my post? It DIRECTLY explains all that.
 

Brightboat

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Did you even read my post? It DIRECTLY explains all that.
And did you read mine? Your post made some good points but did nothing to address the issue of tired arms and not being able to go deep into games. It only explains how the thinking in the game has changed not why pitchers are so weak and prone to injury now. Don't get so caught up in your argument that you don't address the topic.
 

calsnowskier

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And did you read mine? Your post made some good points but did nothing to address the issue of tired arms and not being able to go deep into games. It only explains how the thinking in the game has changed not why pitchers are so weak and prone to injury now. Don't get so caught up in your argument that you don't address the topic.
Not gonna hold your hand through my post. If you can’t figure it out, that’s on you.
 

SF11704

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My 2 cents ... problably the oldest Giant fan here ... I have memories of seeing Ruben Gomez, Johnny Anronelli, Mike McCormick and a host of other older pitchers .. but the ONLY reliver I actually remember is Hoyt Willem. Probably because he was a knuckleball pitcher and that was a very different type of pitcher. Never really paid attention to how many innings a starter went. The first real memory I have of 'roles' is a closer for Whitey Ford (NYY). At the time he would go a maximum of 7 innings and a closer would always finish up for him. First memory of a 'role'.

I think a big factor in all this is the restructuring of the playoffs. In my youth there were only two leagues. Nationsl and American. Think the season was 150 games or so and then they went immediately into World Series play. Now we play 162 games and a host of playoffs games before the WS even starts. Puts much more strain on a starting rotation ... befire you even reach the world series. Today ... it's all about the money and how much money can be generated by a wide open playoff structure.
 

Brightboat

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Not gonna hold your hand through my post. If you can’t figure it out, that’s on you.
You missed the point. Tired arms and "hitting the wall" that we hear so much about have nothing to do with analytics and 3 times through the lineup
 

msgkings322

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You missed the point. Tired arms and "hitting the wall" that we hear so much about have nothing to do with analytics and 3 times through the lineup
They do a little, you keep ignoring the parts about modern pitching vs old timey pitching and the major increase in strains on arms. Not to mention kids start pitching a lot of innings pretty young, we simply demand more of athletes that make it to the pros these days. Things are simply different and pitchers not going 7 innings is due to many factors.
 

tzill

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They do a little, you keep ignoring the parts about modern pitching vs old timey pitching and the major increase in strains on arms. Not to mention kids start pitching a lot of innings pretty young, we simply demand more of athletes that make it to the pros these days. Things are simply different and pitchers not going 7 innings is due to many factors.
Travel ball. The single biggest factor in arm injury. So many kids in HS getting TJ surgery it's not funny. We didn't have travel ball when I was a kid; we played basketball, football and soccer.
 

Brightboat

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Not gonna hold your hand through my post. If you can’t figure it out, that’s on you.
More evidence today as Skenes gets pulled in the 7th with a no hitter at 94 pitches. Absolutely inexplicable
 

msgkings322

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More evidence today as Skenes gets pulled in the 7th with a no hitter at 94 pitches. Absolutely inexplicable
Easily explained. Things are different now. He's not even close to the first pitcher pulled with a no hitter going, happens all the time in the modern era.
 

sf1giantfan

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Easily explained. Things are different now. He's not even close to the first pitcher pulled with a no hitter going, happens all the time in the modern era.
It’s too bad, his girlfriend would have stayed with him longer with a no hitter to his name.
 

Brightboat

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Easily explained. Things are different now. He's not even close to the first pitcher pulled with a no hitter going, happens all the time in the modern era.
Which is what makes it inexplicable. If the older guys could do it without all the advances in training and conditioning of today, these youngsters ought to be able to do it too.
 
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