2022-23 Flyers: How about just less suck?

[awaz]

That's funny this was my theory to get two solid 40 point players who play an all around game for Giroux and you shot down that theory whole heartedly.

How would us getting Marner for Farabee/TK or Prov/Sanheim help us? We would be back to the same team we were for the last 10 years.

To the first point, it's a different story when you have Matthews. And to a lesser extent Nylander and Taveres. Even without Marner, they have the offensive difference makers you need to win. Without Giroux, the Flyers wouldn't have, and now don't have, anyone worth a damn offensively. See 31st in the league in goals for.

They'd have a legit piece to build around in Marner. Right now, they don't. All this talk about "dumping the core" over the past few years. Well, they have. Jake, Giroux, Simmonds, Ghost. They're all gone. And now look at this roster. It's a bottom dweller without a single promising piece to move forward with. They have 1 player that other teams might covet in Couturier. And he's just not a difference maker. People can say "the Bruins won building around Bergeron, blah blah blah". Bergeron had Marchand and Pastarnak who are both nearly a point per game in their career. The Flyers best offensive players now are TK (.63 ppg), JvR (.63 ppg), and Atkinson (.64ppg). Does anyone fear TK/JvR/Atkinson like they fear Marchand and Pastrnak? Who would you take down 1 goal with 2 minutes left in game 7? Who on the Flyers payroll do you want out there trying to score that goal?

Your team is toast if you don't have an offensive star or two to build around. The Flyers have no hope for that as it stands. Nobody on the roster. Nobody in the pipeline. I would trade for Marner in a heartbeat to get someone that fits that mold. They're hard to get, and when they're available and you don't have one, you should go get one. The Flyers haven't found one since the 2006 draft. And even he wasn't good enough.

 

[lasgop8]

At this point i am now a Carolina Canes fan!!!!!!!

Lets go AWAZ root for your home town team.

 

[lasgop8]

I hear you. I don't "need" to move Provy just think it should be considered. Same applies for Ellis. Can't imagine they get much for him and if they did make a bad value trade with him you can almost guarantee he'd be back to all star form next year and play 80 games, taking 2 games off for the birth of a child or something lol

Someone from our defense needs to go as the top 4 are taking up almost 29% of our cap. I would preferably like it to be Prov. 2 of them if possible.

 

[awaz]

I hear you. I don't "need" to move Provy just think it should be considered. Same applies for Ellis. Can't imagine they get much for him and if they did make a bad value trade with him you can almost guarantee he'd be back to all star form next year and play 80 games, taking 2 games off for the birth of a child or something lol

Oh I get you. If I were in charge, I'd gut the whole thing. Provy. Couturier. TK. Down to the studs. Hextall's rebuild was a failure. I'd pull the plug. You can't trade your way to cup contention. They're a bad team, in cap hell, with no A-prospect coming. Trying to do anything else is prolonging the inevitable and making it worse.

 

[lasgop8]

To the first point, it's a different story when you have Matthews. And to a lesser extent Nylander and Taveres. Even without Marner, they have the offensive difference makers you need to win. Without Giroux, the Flyers wouldn't have, and now don't have, anyone worth a damn offensively. See 31st in the league in goals for.

They'd have a legit piece to build around in Marner. Right now, they don't. All this talk about "dumping the core" over the past few years. Well, they have. Jake, Giroux, Simmonds, Ghost. They're all gone. And now look at this roster. It's a bottom dweller without a single promising piece to move forward with. They have 1 player that other teams might covet in Couturier. And he's just not a difference maker. People can say "the Bruins won building around Bergeron, blah blah blah". Bergeron had Marchand and Pastarnak who are both nearly a point per game in their career. The Flyers best offensive players now are TK (.63 ppg), JvR (.63 ppg), and Atkinson (.64ppg). Does anyone fear TK/JvR/Atkinson like they fear Marchand and Pastrnak? Who would you take down 1 goal with 2 minutes left in game 7? Who on the Flyers payroll do you want out there trying to score that goal?

Your team is toast if you don't have an offensive star or two to build around. The Flyers have no hope for that as it stands. Nobody on the roster. Nobody in the pipeline. I would trade for Marner in a heartbeat to get someone that fits that mold. They're hard to get, and when they're available and you don't have one, you should go get one. The Flyers haven't found one since the 2006 draft. And even he wasn't good enough.

We dumped the core and will be replacing the core through the draft which is what ive been asking for for the last 5 years so im good with where we are now.

Dump Gee for two 40 point players would have made us just as good as if we Giroux just way more exciting to watch. If we trade for Marner it would be exactly like being medicore for the next 10 years again. I personally dont celebrate mediocre been there done that.

 

[awaz]

At this point i am now a Carolina Canes fan!!!!!!!

Lets go AWAZ root for your home town team.

Yep. They're a fun squad too. Love the way Brind'Amour has them playing. Basically their whole strategy is "play defense by attacking". Their forecheck is strong enough that they play the bulk of their defense 150 ft from their own net. I don't think the Bruins had a single clean breakout in game 7. It was awesome.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Marner is absolutely a game changer IMO. Over a point per game for his career, paced for 110 pts this year. 2nd in PK TOI among Leaf forwards this year. 3 SHG.

Had he played the same 79 games that TK did, he would have had more than double the number of points TK did. TK led the Flyers. And Marner had double that.

If the Leafs decide to move Marner, the Flyers should be all over that. That would be taking advantage of a team doing something stupid. It would be nice for the Flyers to be on the right side of that for once.

Okay let me put it another way, if Marner is a game changer and you trade all those players for him, then instead of Giroux you have Marner doing all your scoring and still have the same supporting cast, your not improving. As has been mentioned people such as JVR, Hayes and Ellis need to be moved and that money needs to be used better. Marner would def help but you still need a few more high caliber players.

 

[awaz]

We dumped the core and will be replacing the core through the draft which is what ive been asking for for the last 5 years so im good with where we are now.

Dump Gee for two 40 point players would have made us just as good as if we Giroux just way more exciting to watch. If we trade for Marner it would be exactly like being medicore for the next 10 years again. I personally dont celebrate mediocre been there done that.

The Avs have Mackinnon/Rantanen
The Blues have Tarasenko
The Lightning have Kucherov/Stamkos/Point
The Panthers have Barkov/Huberdeau
The Flames have Gaudreau/Tkachuk
The Oilers have MacKinnon/Draisatl
The Rangers have Panarin/Zibanejad
The Canes have Svechnikov/Aho

All of those guys are 100 point players, or capable of it. That tells me you can't win without a star. The Blues are the closest to your depth plan. They had 8 guys with more points than any Flyer. So, still a hell of a lot better offensively than the Flyers players.

 

[awaz]

Okay let me put it another way, if Marner is a game changer and you trade all those players for him, then instead of Giroux you have Marner doing all your scoring and still have the same supporting cast, your not improving. As has been mentioned people such as JVR, Hayes and Ellis need to be moved and that money needs to be used better. Marner would def help but you still need a few more high caliber players.

Oh absolutely. Marner is just step 1. The team is still awful behind him. But the Flyers need something to build around over the next years. You need that star. The two paths I see to that are to trade for Marner (if he's available) or to stay bad next year and hope for a top 3 pick next year. I would prefer the latter, but I don't think Fletcher has any intention of doing that. So Marner is the next best option to me.

The one thing that will back me down a little is Marner is 25. I thought he was like 22. So you don't have as much time as I thought.

 

[lasgop8]

Oh absolutely. Marner is just step 1. The team is still awful behind him. But the Flyers need something to build around over the next years. You need that star. The two paths I see to that are to trade for Marner (if he's available) or to stay bad next year and hope for a top 3 pick next year. I would prefer the latter, but I don't think Fletcher has any intention of doing that. So Marner is the next best option to me.

The one thing that will back me down a little is Marner is 25. I thought he was like 22. So you don't have as much time as I thought.

Well IMO opinion Toronto would never move Marner for just Prov and TK or move Marner period so its all a moot point to me.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Oh absolutely. Marner is just step 1. The team is still awful behind him. But the Flyers need something to build around over the next years. You need that star. The two paths I see to that are to trade for Marner (if he's available) or to stay bad next year and hope for a top 3 pick next year. I would prefer the latter, but I don't think Fletcher has any intention of doing that. So Marner is the next best option to me.

The one thing that will back me down a little is Marner is 25. I thought he was like 22. So you don't have as much time as I thought.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love Marner here, but the biggest issue is we have no clue what we have in terms of untapped youth. One of those kids could be better than expected. I suspect that any significant change will come at the trade deadline again. I also want to see who gets hired as coach, that IMO will be a telling tale of which way this team is going. But I'm on record as saying we need a Panarin type player for years so yea if we could add him I'm all for it.

 

[purdue81]

The Avs have Mackinnon/Rantanen
The Blues have Tarasenko
The Lightning have Kucherov/Stamkos/Point
The Panthers have Barkov/Huberdeau
The Flames have Gaudreau/Tkachuk
The Oilers have MacKinnon/Draisatl
The Rangers have Panarin/Zibanejad
The Canes have Svechnikov/Aho

All of those guys are 100 point players, or capable of it. That tells me you can't win without a star. The Blues are the closest to your depth plan. They had 8 guys with more points than any Flyer. So, still a hell of a lot better offensively than the Flyers players.

Well that is certainly depressing.....................

Go Canes ---- They are CAROLINA... and I live in South Carolina

 

[awaz]

Well IMO opinion Toronto would never move Marner for just Prov and TK or move Marner period so its all a moot point to me.

That's fair. I don't expect they'll do it either. But maybe, just maybe, they'll panic. And if they do, I'd like to see the Flyers involved.

IMO, if you don't have a star or two to build around, you should plan to be bad until you do. Filling the roster with mid-level talent is just hurting your draft spot. Until Fletcher proves otherwise, I'm concerned he'll keep filling the roster with mid-level talent and try to compete. That's what he did in Minnesota. They never had a star and could never actually compete. But they kept adding mid-level talent and stayed a playoff bubble team. For them, it's different now because they have Kaprizov. But the Flyers don't have that waiting in the wings, and until they do, I'd rather just suffer through them being bad.

 

[awaz]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love Marner here, but the biggest issue is we have no clue what we have in terms of untapped youth. One of those kids could be better than expected. I suspect that any significant change will come at the trade deadline again. I also want to see who gets hired as coach, that IMO will be a telling tale of which way this team is going. But I'm on record as saying we need a Panarin type player for years so yea if we could add him I'm all for it.

We don't have a Marner-level player in our un-tapped youth. They might get better and be better than we think of them now. But 100 point players don't pop out of the ground as 25 year olds. Or even as 21, 22 year olds. When they're going to be that level, you see signs of it pretty early.

Frost was my hope for that guy after all the points he put up in Juniors. But if he were going to be a 100 pt guy in the NHL, I think he would've gotten off to a better start.

 

[lasgop8]

That's fair. I don't expect they'll do it either. But maybe, just maybe, they'll panic. And if they do, I'd like to see the Flyers involved.

IMO, if you don't have a star or two to build around, you should plan to be bad until you do. Filling the roster with mid-level talent is just hurting your draft spot. Until Fletcher proves otherwise, I'm concerned he'll keep filling the roster with mid-level talent and try to compete. That's what he did in Minnesota. They never had a star and could never actually compete. But they kept adding mid-level talent and stayed a playoff bubble team. For them, it's different now because they have Kaprizov. But the Flyers don't have that waiting in the wings, and until they do, I'd rather just suffer through them being bad.

IMO Fletcher will be gone soon as he will never be able to dig out of the hole Hextall created. I am thinking about who will be our next GM and hoping he can try to figure out if he will be able to get high end talent in here for the crap players we have available.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

We don't have a Marner-level player in our un-tapped youth. They might get better and be better than we think of them now. But 100 point players don't pop out of the ground as 25 year olds. Or even as 21, 22 year olds. When they're going to be that level, you see signs of it pretty early.

Frost was my hope for that guy after all the points he put up in Juniors. But if he were going to be a 100 pt guy in the NHL, I think he would've gotten off to a better start.

I agree, but some of those kids haven't gotten to play a full season, so I'd like to see an overall view of their talent. I just think it makes an easier decision at trade deadline, also whoever is the next coach will have to be a good teacher, looking at you Trotz!

 

[lasgop8]

I agree, but some of those kids haven't gotten to play a full season, so I'd like to see an overall view of their talent. I just think it makes an easier decision at trade deadline, also whoever is the next coach will have to be a good teacher, looking at you Trotz!

If you want Trotz as your coach anybody who we have right now who can score will have half as many points with Trotz defense only system.

 

[lasgop8]

What if the Flyers traded their first round pick this year?

Would we really be that mad?

www.broadstreethockey.com

 

[lasgop8]

A smaller winger ‘always on the hunt' led all Flyers prospects in goals

Willie Desjardins gave an opponent’s perspective on goal-scoring Flyers prospect Connor McClennon. By Jordan Hall

www.nbcsports.com

 

[purdue81]

If you want Trotz as your coach anybody who we have right now who can score will have half as many points with Trotz defense only system.

But if we give up 1/3 fewer goals - what is the net effect ? Still a bottom dweller I suspect.