2021-2022 NBA Season

[msgkings322]

A lot of those advantages the Lakers relied on for year and years have dried up and blown away in the wind. The financial advantages, the location advantages, the pull of ownership etc. have been thoroughly mitigated by the modern game. No longer does a player have to play in LA or NY or CHI to be a huge star. 15 years ago the biggest endorsers in the game were located in Orlando and Cleveland. That simply was not possible during the Lakers Showtime heyday of the 80's. Now its the rule- not the exception. The Lakers can no longer rely on just being the Lakers to attract talent. That should be something that has become painfully obvious by now. This is no longer the 80's where you can sell Jerry Buss, more money, and the attraction of a national television audience to players as they can get those things anywhere. Those institutional advantages have been significantly and thoroughly mitigated.


back in the day- your national tv games consisted of the Lakers and Celtics on Sunday night. The league had less teams. Certain teams had a lot more money than other teams. You could not become a huge marketer if you werent in a huge market. All things that are no longer true.

now- anyone can see any teams every single game
now- the richest owners in the NBA reside in Portland and Cleveland. The Lakers just let Caruso go because they were too cheap to pay anymore tax.- owners pockets matter more than team revenue generation.
No one has paid more in luxury tax than the Cavs and Warriors- not the Knicks and Lakers.
now- any player can be the biggest marketer in the world from any market.

LA still has the draw of a glamour market- but the institutional advantages that helped them to 17 titles are VASTLY VASTLY smaller than they used to be 20 years ago--- and INSANELY mitigated compared to 40+ years ago.

Which is why both the Lakers and Celtics no longer win all the titles. They will win one now and then just like every other city.

 

[CitySushi]

@HurricaneDij39 he's talking about you

Feel like the Warriors could be right there with the Heat. Team has legit 13 rotation worthy players when healthy:

Curry
Klay
Wiggins
Draymond
Looney

Poole
Porter Jr
Payton 2
Wiseman
JTA
Lee
Iguodala
Bjelica

Kuminga
Moody

 

[tlance]

Which is why both the Lakers and Celtics no longer win all the titles. They will win one now and then just like every other city.

Not every other city.

Plenty of cities never win.

 

[msgkings322]

Not every other city.

Plenty of cities never win.

Fair enough. But I don't think we can say anymore that a city has some special advantage. Look at NYC for example. Honestly the best NBA city might be Miami on those metrics....no state tax, glamorous city, good weather

 

[trojanfan12]

I get not really in you to admit your logic is off base (and can I get a warning before a boot?) but do you know what you are even saying? Their era now includes Lebron saving them after 6 years of no playoffs. You think with no Lebron for this discussion they can turn it around quickly even though Pelinka has yet to be able to bring in an elite FA to play there not named Lebron? Might he? sure....but what has he done to make you so confident he can do it quickly?

The only one having a logic issue is you. The 6 years of no playoffs was mainly due to Short Buss. He was incompetent. Even a destination city isnt going to overcome incompetence in the FO. They got competence in the FO, they got Lebron. They traded for AD, which ate up a lot of cap space and ate up more when they extended him.

When your team is capped and they re-sign their own max level players, they don't typically have cap space to sign more max level players. So your...they havent brought in any elite FAs makes no more sense than when folks would make the same dumb argument when the Lakers would use up their cap space re-signing Shaq and Kobe and re-signing Gasol and Kobe.

That he has made the moves, getting the AD trade done, getting AD re-signed and building the rest of a roster that won a title in 2020 makes me think he can do it quickly. It wont happen in one off-season, but it will happen a lot faster than when Short Buss tried. At the least, he seems to understand that it is no longer as simple as...We are the Lakers, here is the contract, here is a pen, sign here.

 

[bksballer89]

Feel like the Warriors could be right there with the Heat. Team has legit 13 rotation worthy players when healthy:

Curry
Klay
Wiggins
Draymond
Looney

Poole
Porter Jr
Payton 2
Wiseman
JTA
Lee
Iguodala
Bjelica

Kuminga
Moody

Yep both are very deep. Great for regular season due to injuries and covid but doesn't mean much in the playoffs when teams shrink rotations

 

[trojanfan12]

Also quarterbacking the defense etc. Agreed.

That too. Drays career averages are 9ppg, 7rpg and 5apg. There are guys on every bench in the league that could do that if they got Drays minutes...arent a whole lot of players who can do everything else he does.

 

[tlance]

Fair enough. But I don't think we can say anymore that a city has some special advantage. Look at NYC for example. Honestly the best NBA city might be Miami on those metrics....no state tax, glamorous city, good weather

How can you say they don’t?

Some franchises NEVER agent big free agents.

Others are in the running for big names every time.

Just because the Knicks are a dumpster fire joke doesn’t mean that other destination markets don’t have a huge advantage.

There are 3 tiers IMO:

Tier 1: Top markets

These franchises are the cream of the crop where a big name will always listen even if they eventually go elsewhere. LA, Miami, NY

Now, if the team is run poorly, they aren’t getting anybody. But sound management can lead to a totally different style of rebuild that simply isn’t available in most markets. Brooklyn getting Kyrie and KD, Miami with LeBron Wade and Bosh, and the Lakers with LeBron and AD are examples.

Tier 2: warm weather or 2nd tier market (Chicago, GS, Phoenix + many more. This is more than half the league.

These franchises can attract big names when they have a competitive core. But they can also be totally irrelevant for long periods when mismanaged.

Tier 3: colder weather and small markets (Milwaukee, Cleveland, Utah, Sacramento,

These teams can surely win, as proven by Cleveland and Milwaukee, but it is really hard. They typically need to build through the draft and then add a few pieces here and there via trade and free agency. Odds are always stacked against teams in these types of markets and it usually requires a generational superstar to break through.

 

[trojanfan12]

Thing with Westrbrook- no one can say he doesnt care and he doesnt play hard.

That is part of why Im not as frustrated with him as I should be. lol

 

[trojanfan12]

Just because the Knicks are a dumpster fire joke doesn’t mean that other destination markets don’t have a huge advantage.

And as has been said...even a destination city cant overcome an incompetent FO and the Knicks have been as bad as it gets for decades.

 

[trojanfan12]

the Lakers let Caruso go because they didnt want to pay the extra tax to keep him- a guy who would easily be their 4th best player- and its not like he broke the bank.

Yeah, it's a tough call. He didn't break the bank, but was he worth the extra tax. I guess the Lakers didn't think so and it turns out, it looks like they were wrong. Imo, that may be the mistake that haunts them most.

Even if they get their shit together and win the title this year, it will still have been a mistake, imo. He's one of those guys that you have to have because he's a guy who makes plays in big moments, but you're also never going to have to pay even close to max money for. Plus...the fans love him.

 

[WiggyRuss]

How can you say they don’t?

Some franchises NEVER agent big free agents.

Others are in the running for big names every time.

Just because the Knicks are a dumpster fire joke doesn’t mean that other destination markets don’t have a huge advantage.

There are 3 tiers IMO:

Tier 1: Top markets

These franchises are the cream of the crop where a big name will always listen even if they eventually go elsewhere. LA, Miami, NY

Now, if the team is run poorly, they aren’t getting anybody. But sound management can lead to a totally different style of rebuild that simply isn’t available in most markets. Brooklyn getting Kyrie and KD, Miami with LeBron Wade and Bosh, and the Lakers with LeBron and AD are examples.

Tier 2: warm weather or 2nd tier market (Chicago, GS, Phoenix + many more. This is more than half the league.

These franchises can attract big names when they have a competitive core. But they can also be totally irrelevant for long periods when mismanaged.

Tier 3: colder weather and small markets (Milwaukee, Cleveland, Utah, Sacramento,

These teams can surely win, as proven by Cleveland and Milwaukee, but it is really hard. They typically need to build through the draft and then add a few pieces here and there via trade and free agency. Odds are always stacked against teams in these types of markets and it usually requires a generational superstar to break through.

"huge advantage" is bullshit.

even if your post is true- the fact is that market is the sole advantage that now exists when in the past NUMEROUS advantages existed.

Instead of having 4-5 arrows in the quiver- they have one now.

1960 to 2002 The Lakers and Celtics won 22 of 42 titles. Over half.

if you think they still enjoy the same advantages that they enjoyed over those years you are really really clueless.

1. Money. Orlando literally could not afford to re-sign Shaq to the deal that the Lakers gave him. Now every single team can sign multiple guys to max deals. Now 3 of the teams that have paid the most luxury tax in history are Cleveland, OKC and Golden State. Teams that generated tons of revenue used to have a large advantage when their owners sole business was basketball. Now for the majority of owners the NBA is their toy. Lacob and Gilbert have spent more than anyone since their fortunes are not from basketball. We just saw the Lakers let Caruso walk because they didnt want to pay more tax.

2. Player Endorsements. Before- you had to play in a major market to be a major marketer. Obviously that cannot be farther from the truth now. Way back in the mid-2000's the biggest marketers in the NBA were LeBron in Cleveland and Dwight Howard in Orlando. It has only become more pronounced since then

3. Winning a ton of titles was a lot easier in a smaller league with a lot less talent to go around.

4. The Lakers and Celtics had all-time coaches and GM's for long stretches of their history. Rob Pelinka and Brad Stevens aren't exactly Red Auerbach and Jerry West/Buss.

5. For large parts of NBA history- a Jazz fan probably never saw a Bucks team play in the regular season. At one point the NBA Finals was on tape delay. Now every single fan can see every single game. Its not just Celtics and Lakers on Sunday night national TV Anymore.

6. Max Contracts and the Salary Cap- even if it is a soft cap it has severely limited moves- and forces teams to go through spells where they literally cant spend money- even if they wanted to.

7. Revenue sharing- splitting national tv contracts. Centralized revenue -unlike MLB.

Used to be multiple advantages certain teams had. Those advantages are either totally gone, or severely mitigated.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

ain't something i love acknowledging, but the Lakers are a hot mess right now. I almost feel like they should start again from the groung up...

Obtw, dunno if if you caught Matrix: Resurrections yet, but it leaves a lot to be desired...

I watched it on HBO Max.

So, it was good for me.

Some parts were nonsensical.

Like, why did they have to plug Bugs into Trinity's pod?

Other parts were slightly cringe...

People taking swan dives outta skyscrapers gave me 9/11 vibes.

Plus, Ya Ya is no Larry Fish.

But, I loved the first 2 Matrix movies.

So, anything that washes away part 3 is okay with me.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

That was obvious once they signed Collison.

 

[bksballer89]

That was obvious once they signed Collison.

I expect to see IT in the big 3 league this coming summer

 

[WiggyRuss]

Feel like the Warriors could be right there with the Heat. Team has legit 13 rotation worthy players when healthy:

Curry
Klay
Wiggins
Draymond
Looney

Poole
Porter Jr
Payton 2
Wiseman
JTA
Lee
Iguodala
Bjelica

Kuminga
Moody

If you are talking about quality- not quantity of bench- Rubio/Love/Osman is not a bad top 3 off the bench.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Ffs

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I expect to see IT in the big 3 league this coming summer

Folks speculating he's going back to Beantown.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Wtf

This year is turning into the G League classic.

 

[trojanfan12]

How can you say they don’t?

Some franchises NEVER agent big free agents.

Others are in the running for big names every time.

Just because the Knicks are a dumpster fire joke doesn’t mean that other destination markets don’t have a huge advantage.

There are 3 tiers IMO:

Tier 1: Top markets

These franchises are the cream of the crop where a big name will always listen even if they eventually go elsewhere. LA, Miami, NY

Now, if the team is run poorly, they aren’t getting anybody. But sound management can lead to a totally different style of rebuild that simply isn’t available in most markets. Brooklyn getting Kyrie and KD, Miami with LeBron Wade and Bosh, and the Lakers with LeBron and AD are examples.

Tier 2: warm weather or 2nd tier market (Chicago, GS, Phoenix + many more. This is more than half the league.

These franchises can attract big names when they have a competitive core. But they can also be totally irrelevant for long periods when mismanaged.

Tier 3: colder weather and small markets (Milwaukee, Cleveland, Utah, Sacramento,

These teams can surely win, as proven by Cleveland and Milwaukee, but it is really hard. They typically need to build through the draft and then add a few pieces here and there via trade and free agency. Odds are always stacked against teams in these types of markets and it usually requires a generational superstar to break through.

That is the best explanation I've seen of the breakdown. Even down to the generational talents for the Tier 3 teams. Timing can have a lot to with it for those teams too. The Cavs get Lebron and the Bucks get Giannis at times when they can get a title...but the Jazz get Stockton and Malone when they had MJ's Bulls and then the Shaq/Kobe Lakers to deal with.