2020 NBA Draft

[dtgold88]

Because “competing for a playoff spot” isn’t a good goal if you are making short term moves to get there.

Which it sounds like the Cavs might be looking to do.

what short term moves are they making? The tanking was a short term move?

I've often said they need to tank if the goal is ever another title. Problem is they did it, but did not get the lottery luck required for a team like them to win a title (like they did last time). a top 2 pick in one or both of last 2 drafts makes a world of difference.

Might be shifting to be a team like the Pacers. Not the ultimate hope/goal, but not the worst thing in the world I guess.

 

[dtgold88]

Sure.

But you also compete for that playoff spot by developing young players and adding complementary pieces.

You don’t do it by trading a lotto pick for a vet who can help you get a few more wins today.

And I know this with absolute certainty because that is what the Wizards have done for most of the past 40 years.

Being open to trading and actually trading a pick not exactly the same thing. Never mind no one from the Cavs has actually said this is their plan.

 

[dtgold88]

I realistically don't think they will trade this but keeping all options open are always good. I trust Gilbert and Altman...even if they were to trade, they wouldn't get much for it so yeah it doesn't make sense.

agree....they'd have to be blown away to make this deal (or just not like anyone all that much) and with where they are picking I don't see anyone making an offer they cannot refuse.

 

[tlance]

what short term moves are they making? The tanking was a short term move?

I've often said they need to tank if the goal is ever another title. Problem is they did it, but did not get the lottery luck required for a team like them to win a title (like they did last time). a top 2 pick in one or both of last 2 drafts makes a world of difference.

Might be shifting to be a team like the Pacers. Not the ultimate hope/goal, but not the worst thing in the world I guess.

This entire conversation was based on the idea of trading their pick to help fulfill their goal of making the playoffs.

That would be a short term move.

 

[Shanemansj13]

agree....they'd have to be blown away to make this deal (or just not like anyone all that much) and with where they are picking I don't see anyone making an offer they cannot refuse.

So back to the original question before it was hijacked lol...

“According to league sources, the Cavaliers are fairly comfortable with selecting between Isaac Okoro, Devin Vassell or Deni Avdija with the fifth overall pick,”

Which one do you think is the best fit for CLE?

 

[dtgold88]

This entire conversation was based on the idea of trading their pick to help fulfill their goal of making the playoffs.

That would be a short term move.

Yeah, not really. The move to make such a deal was PART of the conversation as an option. Not something they must do nor the entire conversation.

 

[dtgold88]

So back to the original question before it was hijacked lol...

“According to league sources, the Cavaliers are fairly comfortable with selecting between Isaac Okoro, Devin Vassell or Deni Avdija with the fifth overall pick,”

Which one do you think is the best fit for CLE?

honestly I couldn't say as I don't think I've seen any of them play even a second of live basketball. and from listening to others does not sound like either has separated himself.

 

[tlance]

Yeah, not really. The move to make such a deal was PART of the conversation as an option. Not something they must do nor the entire conversation.

That was what my conversation with Shane was about.

Just that.

Not the whole quote.

 

[ericd7633]

Report: Cavs Looking at These 3 Players With No. 5 Overall Pick | Cavaliers Nation

@WiggyRuss @dtgold88

“According to league sources, the Cavaliers are fairly comfortable with selecting between Isaac Okoro, Devin Vassell or Deni Avdija with the fifth overall pick,” Dammarell wrote. “All three of those players make perfect sense for the team as well. The Cavaliers have a dire need for depth on the perimeter and the defensive potential Okoro and Vassell provide is invaluable. But, those same sources also shared that Cleveland is open to trading the pick as well – just as long as it brings back a player that can contribute immediately to the team’s aspirations next season.”

Honestly, I'm now hoping the Cavs select this Devin Vassell kid. He just turned 20. He is an exceptional shooter. I've heard his defense is underrated and continues to improve. Could possibly be a 3-D wing player that can score. Okoro is also nice but this Vassell kid is still a very good defender and has a NBA ready shot. The scouting report reminds me of Klay. Nothing exciting about Avdija, I think he might be a better version of Osman but who knows.

He's not Klay. They played completely different. FSU wasn't running Vassell off screens like WSU did for Klay. Klay was the main option on offense for WSU. Vassell was a piece. I think a good comp would be Trevor Ariza, just a bit shorter. It may not be a sexy comp, but Ariza avg 12.5 ppg and 5.5 rebounds in his prime.

 

[Mebert]

GS should offer this **Don't think the 76ers would ever trade Embiid but here we go**

Wiggins
2020 #2 pick
1st 2021
1st 2021 TWolves (protected top 3)
1st 2023

For

Embiid

Stephien Rule is only FUTURE Picks right? So they would be able to go 2020 and 2021?

The money would pretty much match up perfectly, like I said, meh...

To do this they would have to pick who the 76ers want at 2 and then do the trade, but the Stiphien rule still applies until they make the pick.

 

[ericd7633]

So back to the original question before it was hijacked lol...

“According to league sources, the Cavaliers are fairly comfortable with selecting between Isaac Okoro, Devin Vassell or Deni Avdija with the fifth overall pick,”

Which one do you think is the best fit for CLE?

I like Avdija as a prospect the most. I don't think he's got the highest ceiling of the three as that would be Okoro IMO, but the big question is whether or not Okoro will reach that potential. If you're looking for a 3 and D guy I'd go with Nesmith over Vassell, but there isn't much difference there. I just think Nesmith has a better offensive game.

 

[The Q]

I like Avdija as a prospect the most. I don't think he's got the highest ceiling of the three as that would be Okoro IMO, but the big question is whether or not Okoro will reach that potential. If you're looking for a 3 and D guy I'd go with Nesmith over Vassell, but there isn't much difference there. I just think Nesmith has a better offensive game.

If okoro could shoot at all he wouldn’t get past GS.

 

[Shanemansj13]

He's not Klay. They played completely different. FSU wasn't running Vassell off screens like WSU did for Klay. Klay was the main option on offense for WSU. Vassell was a piece. I think a good comp would be Trevor Ariza, just a bit shorter. It may not be a sexy comp, but Ariza avg 12.5 ppg and 5.5 rebounds in his prime.

I said the scouting report reminds me of Klay for multiple reasons: good shooter, adequate off the dribble, solid athlete-motor-defender, decent playmaker and dribbling. Where he struggles creating his shot off the dribble, scoring in traffic.

I would not compare him to Klay though and the system Klay was in was much different but Klay also got more opportunity...I feel Vassell hasn't gotten that yet. Ariza isn't a bad comparison, I feel like his ceiling is pretty high...that's just me though.

Style of game - Danny Green
Ceiling - Beal
Floor - Ariza

 

[Shanemansj13]

I like Avdija as a prospect the most. I don't think he's got the highest ceiling of the three as that would be Okoro IMO, but the big question is whether or not Okoro will reach that potential. If you're looking for a 3 and D guy I'd go with Nesmith over Vassell, but there isn't much difference there. I just think Nesmith has a better offensive game.

It's a tough choice. Yeah I agree I don't think Deni's ceiling is as high. I think Okoro at worst can be a solid defender/role player...could be the same for Vassell.
I think the pick here for the Cavs needs to be DEFENSE first but I feel they also need to go for ceiling as well. It's interesting you bring up Nesmith, forgot about him...

Probably would trade down for Nesmith since he is projected to go after 10 or 10-15. Not sure they are looking at him but I think they need to be. Could pair him and Garland...Vandy guys.

 

[ericd7633]

If okoro could shoot at all he wouldn’t get past GS.

I agree. If he improves his shooting, he might just end up the best player in this draft. His skillet of everything else is very good.

 

[ericd7633]

I said the scouting report reminds me of Klay for multiple reasons: good shooter, adequate off the dribble, solid athlete-motor-defender, decent playmaker and dribbling. Where he struggles creating his shot off the dribble, scoring in traffic.

I would not compare him to Klay though and the system Klay was in was much different but Klay also got more opportunity...I feel Vassell hasn't gotten that yet. Ariza isn't a bad comparison, I feel like his ceiling is pretty high...that's just me though.

Style of game - Danny Green
Ceiling - Beal
Floor - Ariza

I think Danny Green is another good comp. I'm not seeing the comp in regards to Beal though. I don't think he has the handling or shot making ability that Beal did and does. He is a good 3 point shooter, don't get me wrong, but more in the way that Green and Ariza are good 3 point shooters, someone else is going to have to create it for him, at least IMO. And Vassell isn't someone who is running off screens shooting, maybe he can do that, he just hasn't shown it.

I don't think he has a great ceiling. If everyone were to reach the very best version of themselves, I think he would be outside the top 10 IMO. With that said, the bust potential is also lower on him than guys like Avdija, Okoro, etc...

 

[ericd7633]

It's a tough choice. Yeah I agree I don't think Deni's ceiling is as high. I think Okoro at worst can be a solid defender/role player...could be the same for Vassell.
I think the pick here for the Cavs needs to be DEFENSE first but I feel they also need to go for ceiling as well. It's interesting you bring up Nesmith, forgot about him...

Probably would trade down for Nesmith since he is projected to go after 10 or 10-15. Not sure they are looking at him but I think they need to be. Could pair him and Garland...Vandy guys.

Yeah, the Cavs will certainly have alot of options. Personally, I would take Hayes(but I also think he's the #1 prospect) so I know I'm on an island with that one. I think it's pretty easy to move on from Garland at this point, given how he looked last year. I think the Cavs are still a couple years away so I'd take Hayes and build around that and Sexton.

 

[The Q]

Yeah, the Cavs will certainly have alot of options. Personally, I would take Hayes(but I also think he's the #1 prospect) so I know I'm on an island with that one. I think it's pretty easy to move on from Garland at this point, given how he looked last year. I think the Cavs are still a couple years away so I'd take Hayes and build around that and Sexton.

I’m not sold you build around either guard.

if their bpa is a pg I wouldn’t hesitate to move either of the other two already there and keep going.

 

[The Q]

I think Danny Green is another good comp. I'm not seeing the comp in regards to Beal though. I don't think he has the handling or shot making ability that Beal did and does. He is a good 3 point shooter, don't get me wrong, but more in the way that Green and Ariza are good 3 point shooters, someone else is going to have to create it for him, at least IMO. And Vassell isn't someone who is running off screens shooting, maybe he can do that, he just hasn't shown it.

I don't think he has a great ceiling. If everyone were to reach the very best version of themselves, I think he would be outside the top 10 IMO. With that said, the bust potential is also lower on him than guys like Avdija, Okoro, etc...

I agree. Vessel is very safe. But doesn’t have the same home run upside.

if gs traded down he’d fit them really well though.

 

[ericd7633]

I’m not sold you build around either guard.

if their bpa is a pg I wouldn’t hesitate to move either of the other two already there and keep going.

Yeah I'm not in love with Garland or Sexton, but I'd easily move Garland for Hayes. Or simply have Garland come off the bench since I'm sure there won't be much interest in him.