2018 HOF ballot

[MilkSpiller22]

1. Disagree
2. Because his whole body of work should be looked at

didn't say, you cant make the HOF, I just said you cant make it solely because of that...

 

[soxfan1468927]

didn't say, you cant make the HOF, I just said you cant make it solely because of that...

You didn't say "solely"

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think I am taking Larry Walker off my list and putting Andruw jones on...

Walker has the offensive numbers, but he only had 2 seasons his whole career of 600+ PA and only 4 seasons of 140+ games... I just cant give him the longevity bonus...

 

[Cedrique]

This might be a little bit of a tangent but I was looking at the discussion about Rolen and Beltre and Brooks Robinson. Robinson is definitely a hall of famer for the same reason Ozzie Smith is- great defense at a tough position and his hitting was good enough. And I think his hitting is pretty good considering the position he played and the era he played in. I know shortstops and third basemen was much more of a defensive position at that time, but for the life of me I can't think of anyone who would be his contemporary. Were there good hitting third basemen in the 60's? Sal Bando? All I can think of is maybe Graig Nettles' career overlapped some with Robinson's prime.

 

[Cedrique]

Oh yeah, Ron Santo and Eddie Mathews were both great hitters. But still Brooks might have been the best hitting 3b in the AL during his prime.

 

[msgkings322]

Because I believe a single reliever is significantly less valuable than a single starter. I'm not against relievers being in the HOF. I make no blanket statements when it comes to any position. Just like I'm not against a DH making the HOF, but I think it significantly decreases the value of the player. Only throwing 1000 innings (like Sutter) or 1800 (like Gossage) decreases their value. There are 74 pitchers in the HOF, Sutter is 73rd in IP, ahead of only Satchel Paige. He has fewer IP than Babe Ruth. Gossage is 69th.

Yep, only legitimate game changers like Rivera and Eck are no doubters. All other relievers are debatable. Not that many others shouldn't get in, but it should be a big hurdle.

 

[msgkings322]

This might be a little bit of a tangent but I was looking at the discussion about Rolen and Beltre and Brooks Robinson. Robinson is definitely a hall of famer for the same reason Ozzie Smith is- great defense at a tough position and his hitting was good enough. And I think his hitting is pretty good considering the position he played and the era he played in. I know shortstops and third basemen was much more of a defensive position at that time, but for the life of me I can't think of anyone who would be his contemporary. Were there good hitting third basemen in the 60's? Sal Bando? All I can think of is maybe Graig Nettles' career overlapped some with Robinson's prime.

HOFer Ron Santo

Edit: forgot Matthews, saw him above. Yep.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Oh yeah, Ron Santo and Eddie Mathews were both great hitters. But still Brooks might have been the best hitting 3b in the AL during his prime.

Killebrew did play a lot of 3rd base around that time. Never a full-time 3rd baseman but had quite a few games there.

 

[navamind]

Dick Allen primarily played 3rd base his first four years (64-67) before moving around the diamond

 

[navamind]

I think you make great points. Great points for them not being voted in.
I should say that I am for making the HOF more exclusive. Only the best of the best.

can't argue with that. I'm a big HOF guy.

 

[Myles]

can't argue with that. I'm a big HOF guy.

It's tough. Some want to use past inductees as reason to induct current choices. I'm not really in favor of that because it means we would continue to make mistakes. When does it stop?

The HOF is littered with undeserving players. Heck, Jim "Catfish" Hunter is pretty much in due to having a cool nickname.

 

[Cedrique]

Killebrew did play a lot of 3rd base around that time. Never a full-time 3rd baseman but had quite a few games there.

good call. Yeah Killebrew was a masher

 

[Cedrique]

Dick Allen primarily played 3rd base his first four years (64-67) before moving around the diamond

Another good one. I figured there had to be some good hitting 3b in the 60s but I wasn't around so I don't know the guys that started there and switched over.

 

[navamind]

It's tough. Some want to use past inductees as reason to induct current choices. I'm not really in favor of that because it means we would continue to make mistakes. When does it stop?

The HOF is littered with undeserving players. Heck, Jim "Catfish" Hunter is pretty much in due to having a cool nickname.

not sure how you feel about stats like WAR, but people toss around 60 WAR as the benchmark for borderline HOFers (70 being more of a "lock"). I like that for the most part, but it doesn't tell you how much of that WAR was compiled by excellence vs. simply showing up. That's why I like to look at WAA (wins above average).

Wins Above Average: Taking the "Replacement" out of WAR

 

[Myles]

not sure how you feel about stats like WAR, but people toss around 60 WAR as the benchmark for borderline HOFers (70 being more of a "lock"). I like that for the most part, but it doesn't tell you how much of that WAR was compiled by excellence vs. simply showing up. That's why I like to look at WAA (wins above average).

Wins Above Average: Taking the "Replacement" out of WAR

I'll be honest. I never really got into WAR. WAA or any of the newer stat categories. I'm not saying they are not relevant, because they probably are very much so. I guess I'm old school. I just go by the eye test, batting average, strike-outs, walks, ERA and a few others. I never liked saves or wins for pitchers much.

 

[calsnowskier]

not sure how you feel about stats like WAR, but people toss around 60 WAR as the benchmark for borderline HOFers (70 being more of a "lock"). I like that for the most part, but it doesn't tell you how much of that WAR was compiled by excellence vs. simply showing up. That's why I like to look at WAA (wins above average).

Wins Above Average: Taking the "Replacement" out of WAR

Enough with the snowflake, millennial invasion into everyday life!!

We can’t have “WAR”. That’s too agggresive. Let’s get in touch with our feminine side and go with “WAA” instead. It even sounds like a deep, thoughtful person having a good, heartfelt cry.

 

[Cedrique]

not sure how you feel about stats like WAR, but people toss around 60 WAR as the benchmark for borderline HOFers (70 being more of a "lock"). I like that for the most part, but it doesn't tell you how much of that WAR was compiled by excellence vs. simply showing up. That's why I like to look at WAA (wins above average).

Wins Above Average: Taking the "Replacement" out of WAR

You're moving to fast for the hall of fame voters. They are still busy voting in guys like Tony Perez because he played for 30 years and got a lot of RBIs

 

[Montalban]

2018 Potential Hall of Fame Ballot | Baseball-Reference.com

Notable first timers:
Jim Thome
Chipper Jones
Scott Rolen
Andruw Jones
Johan Santana
Johnny Damon
Jamie Moyer
Omar Vizquel

Scott Podsednik

Wow. That is a real weak class. I suppose Thome and his 600 homeruns would qualify; maybe Chipper Jones.

 

[Montalban]

I know Thome is getting in, but he won’t get my “vote”.

At no point in his career did I ever look at him and say “there goes the best there ever was”. He was just a face in the crowd.

But since people THINK he was clean, he gets moved up to the front of the line.

Agreed.

 

[navamind]

Wow. That is a real weak class. I suppose Thome and his 600 homeruns would qualify; maybe Chipper Jones.

lol