2018 Draft...way too early talk

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

One of my favorite mocks so far this offseason:

Steelers 7-round mock draft | Free agency edition

1. LB Evans - Alabama
2. S Bates - Wake Forest
3. EDGE Okoronkwo - Oklahoma
5a. WR Wims - Georgia
5b. RB Ballage - Arizona St
7a. CB Nickerson - Tulane
7b. DT Lotulelei - Utah

 

[SteelersPride]

One of my favorite mocks so far this offseason:

Steelers 7-round mock draft | Free agency edition

1. LB Evans - Alabama
2. S Bates - Wake Forest
3. EDGE Okoronkwo - Oklahoma
5a. WR Wims - Georgia
5b. RB Ballage - Arizona St
7a. CB Nickerson - Tulane
7b. DT Lotulelei - Utah

not a fan of ballage, he couldnt even staart in college

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

not a fan of ballage, he couldnt even staart in college

Neither could "Fast" Willie Parker. Of course, Fast Willie wan't drafted either. So, agree about using a draft pick on Ballage.

 

[Yo Tee]

One of my favorite mocks so far this offseason:

Steelers 7-round mock draft | Free agency edition

1. LB Evans - Alabama
2. S Bates - Wake Forest
3. EDGE Okoronkwo - Oklahoma
5a. WR Wims - Georgia
5b. RB Ballage - Arizona St
7a. CB Nickerson - Tulane
7b. DT Lotulelei - Utah

I hate this draft. Yes to Evans but no to everyone else.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

One of my favorite mocks so far this offseason:

Steelers 7-round mock draft | Free agency edition

1. LB Evans - Alabama
2. S Bates - Wake Forest
3. EDGE Okoronkwo - Oklahoma
5a. WR Wims - Georgia
5b. RB Ballage - Arizona St
7a. CB Nickerson - Tulane
7b. DT Lotulelei - Utah

I'm not the biggest Evans fan, but I like this draft.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I hate this draft. Yes to Evans but no to everyone else.

You hate Bates? What's wrong with you?

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

 

[Yo Tee]

You hate Bates? What's wrong with you?

I want better. We can get better. He ran a 4.5 40, 9th amongst the 20 safeties at the combine who ran the 40. From what I've watched he plays bigger than he is which. He's only 200 lbs and he plays like a linebacker and that doesn't bode well for injury concerns. He's inconsistent in the angles he takes which is a huge concern when we already have a secondary that can't tackle. At Safety, I want Justin Reid from Stanford, Derwin James from Florida State or Terrell Edmunds from VT.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I want better. We can get better. He ran a 4.5 40, 9th amongst the 20 safeties at the combine who ran the 40. From what I've watched he plays bigger than he is which. He's only 200 lbs and he plays like a linebacker and that doesn't bode well for injury concerns. He's inconsistent in the angles he takes which is a huge concern when we already have a secondary that can't tackle. At Safety, I want Justin Reid from Stanford, Derwin James from Florida State or Terrell Edmunds from VT.

have you even watched his film or are you taking someone else's analysis as your own?

Combine stats aren't everything. From what I've seen, he plays faster than his 4.5s 40. And everything that I've seen he is a great tackler in open space, so I don't see why you think he's inconsistent with his angles? "Only 200lbs" ? You realize that is the playing weight for almost all NFL DBs? Give or take 5-10lbs. Target is usually 200-210lbs. For a rookie to already be at that size is a bonus.

That said, he isn't a 1st Rd talent. And comparing him to the likes of 1st Rd talents Reid, James & Edmunds is a farce. So obviously if we wanted the best at the position then Bates isn't the guy, but you would have to draft them at 28. You won't find Reid, James or Edmunds in the 2nd Rd at pick #60. I don't think you understand that. Bates was the best FS available at that mock pick which was a homerun in my book.

 

[Yo Tee]

Combine stats aren't everything. From what I've seen, he plays faster than his 4.5s 40. And everything that I've seen he is a great tackler in open space, so I don't see why you think he's inconsistent with his angles? "Only 200lbs" ? You realize that is the playing weight for almost all NFL DBs? Give or take 5-10lbs. Target is usually 200-210lbs. For a rookie to already be at that size is a bonus.

That said, he isn't a 1st Rd talent. And comparing him to the likes of 1st Rd talents Reid, James & Edmunds is a farce. So obviously if we wanted the best at the position then Bates isn't the guy, but you would have to draft them at 28. You won't find Reid, James or Edmunds in the 2nd Rd at pick #60. I don't think you understand that. Bates was the best FS available at that mock pick which was a homerun in my book.

I think you've highly misinterpreted most of what I said. Let me clarify.

I never compared him to those guys. I said that I would rather have those guys instead of Bates. Which means I'd rather draft Reid, James or Edmunds at 28 than get Bates at 60.

I know combine stats aren't everything but that's when you're supposed to show up and show off. Bates showed off on the cone drills definitely, but he was slower than some prospects that are 3rd and 4th round talents.

If you look at how he plays and read what NFL coaches and execs and scouts are saying about him, his angles need refining and he needs to stop playing bigger than what he is. He's only 200 lbs, yet he plays like he's a 225-250 lb linebacker. We already have issues with out secondary not being able to tackle properly, do we want to add a rookie that can't tackle properly and who is supposed to learn from the vets, yet the vets can't tackle properly themselves?

I do understand that Reid, James and Edmunds are 1st round guys, never said otherwise. I don't want Bates at 60. I want Reid, James or Edmunds at 28. If we get Bates at 60, so be it. But I don't want him as our rookie safety in this draft.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I think you've highly misinterpreted most of what I said. Let me clarify.

I never compared him to those guys. I said that I would rather have those guys instead of Bates. Which means I'd rather draft Reid, James or Edmunds at 28 than get Bates at 60.

I know combine stats aren't everything but that's when you're supposed to show up and show off. Bates showed off on the cone drills definitely, but he was slower than some prospects that are 3rd and 4th round talents.

If you look at how he plays and read what NFL coaches and execs and scouts are saying about him, his angles need refining and he needs to stop playing bigger than what he is. He's only 200 lbs, yet he plays like he's a 225-250 lb linebacker. We already have issues with out secondary not being able to tackle properly, do we want to add a rookie that can't tackle properly and who is supposed to learn from the vets, yet the vets can't tackle properly themselves?

I do understand that Reid, James and Edmunds are 1st round guys, never said otherwise. I don't want Bates at 60. I want Reid, James or Edmunds at 28. If we get Bates at 60, so be it. But I don't want him as our rookie safety in this draft.

I think you confused yourself. Because that is an entirely different discussion than how this started. Your dismissal of Bates based off of that mock I posted is all I was going off of. You said you loved Evans, but nobody else. So in regards to that mock, who would you draft at 60 if Evans was the guy at 28?

"If you look at how he plays"... FWIW I have watched lots of game film and I like what I see. Can you provide quotes from those specific NFL coaches & execs? Because I haven't found anything. Don't just take a scouts word for it. From the film I have watched personally he takes good angles and tackles well. The only poor angles that I've seen is when he jumps routes and plays too aggressively. It has nothing to do with the fundamentals of tackling in open space. That has more to do with coverage fundamentals. When he bodies up on someone in man coverage, he tackles & plays with his body better than the majority of DBs in this draft. I'd even say he plays better man coverage than Justin Reid does. Where he gets dinged the most, hence the 2nd Rd projection, is his aggressive playing style when sitting in zone. Which does ultimately concern me with him, but again... AT PICK 60, you won't find anyone better. Even if there's a faster prospect available at 60 doesn't mean they are a better FS. If they wanted to wait until the 3rd then maybe they could find a better zone FS, but they would have to accept the dropoff in skill refinement & possibly athletic ability.

 

[Yo Tee]

I think you confused yourself. Because that is an entirely different discussion than how this started. Your dismissal of Bates based off of that mock I posted is all I was going off of. You said you loved Evans, but nobody else. So in regards to that mock, who would you draft at 60 if Evans was the guy at 28?

"If you look at how he plays"... FWIW I have watched lots of game film and I like what I see. Can you provide quotes from those specific NFL coaches & execs? Because I haven't found anything. Don't just take a scouts word for it. From the film I have watched personally he takes good angles and tackles well. The only poor angles that I've seen is when he jumps routes and plays too aggressively. It has nothing to do with the fundamentals of tackling in open space. That has more to do with coverage fundamentals. When he bodies up on someone in man coverage, he tackles & plays with his body better than the majority of DBs in this draft. I'd even say he plays better man coverage than Justin Reid does. Where he gets dinged the most, hence the 2nd Rd projection, is his aggressive playing style when sitting in zone. Which does ultimately concern me with him, but again... AT PICK 60, you won't find anyone better. Even if there's a faster prospect available at 60 doesn't mean they are a better FS. If they wanted to wait until the 3rd then maybe they could find a better zone FS, but they would have to accept the dropoff in skill refinement & possibly athletic ability.

I didn't confuse myself. I don't see how it's an entirely different discussion. This mock draft you referenced has us picking Evans in the 1st with Bates at 60. I love the Evans pick, like I said, but if Bates is who we have to settle for as the solution or help to our safety need, I don't want that. I'd rather have, like I stated, Reid, James or Edmunds at 28, then pick up a LB at 60 like Darius Leonard from South Carolina State or Josey Jewell from Iowa. So the issue I have isn't taking Bates at 60, the issue I have is taking Bates as the hole filler in our saftey need. I believe we have a much deeper need at the safety position than we have at the LB position. I would feel much more comfortable with the Evans pick at 28 if we drafted higher than 60 or if there were a chance to get Reid, James or Edmunds in the 2nd round. I can like picking Evans at 28 but still find an issue with the pick at 60 and not agree with it. This wouldn't be an issue if we just move some things around and pull the trigger on that dreaded T word that everyone around here is afraid of lol

In this mock draft, at 60, I would take Marcus Allen from Penn State. He's a senior who's played a lot longer in college to refine his skills. He's a bruiser down field. He could be good on special teams as well. He blocked the OSU FG in 2016 that won them the B1G Title. Allen outperformed Bates at the combine in the vertical, broad and 20 yd cone drills. The things I see with Allen is that he hesitates too much. His instincts need to get better and he's just got 1 INT in college. But, I think he's got a better upside than Bates.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I didn't confuse myself. I don't see how it's an entirely different discussion. This mock draft you referenced has us picking Evans in the 1st with Bates at 60. I love the Evans pick, like I said, but if Bates is who we have to settle for as the solution or help to our safety need, I don't want that. I'd rather have, like I stated, Reid, James or Edmunds at 28, then pick up a LB at 60 like Darius Leonard from South Carolina State or Josey Jewell from Iowa. So the issue I have isn't taking Bates at 60, the issue I have is taking Bates as the hole filler in our saftey need. I believe we have a much deeper need at the safety position than we have at the LB position. I would feel much more comfortable with the Evans pick at 28 if we drafted higher than 60 or if there were a chance to get Reid, James or Edmunds in the 2nd round. I can like picking Evans at 28 but still find an issue with the pick at 60 and not agree with it. This wouldn't be an issue if we just move some things around and pull the trigger on that dreaded T word that everyone around here is afraid of lol

In this mock draft, at 60, I would take Marcus Allen from Penn State. He's a senior who's played a lot longer in college to refine his skills. He's a bruiser down field. He could be good on special teams as well. He blocked the OSU FG in 2016 that won them the B1G Title. Allen outperformed Bates at the combine in the vertical, broad and 20 yd cone drills. The things I see with Allen is that he hesitates too much. His instincts need to get better and he's just got 1 INT in college. But, I think he's got a better upside than Bates.

Yes you are confusing yourself because you are wanting to have an entirely different discussion. Which I understand and that's fine, you just don't seem to understand that I was trying to have Discussion A when you are derailing it with Discussion B. This entire post is one huge contradiction because you finally end up back at Discussion A.

Discussion A: Evans at 28.

Discussion B: Reid at 28.

That's 2 entirely different scenarios, meaning 2 entirely different discussions. If that mock had Reid at 28, then we'd be having the discussion that you are spearheading. Again, I simply asked why you are dismissing Bates based off that mock and you're main argument is that you'd rather have FS at 28. You can't dismiss someone in regards to Discussion A because you want to have Discussion B. If you had originally dismissed him and then brought up the bolded section above then that would have been more constructive to the conversation.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

This wouldn't be an issue if we just move some things around and pull the trigger on that dreaded T word that everyone around here is afraid of lol

Nobody around here is afraid of it. We are simply more realistic to the possibility of it than you are.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I want better. We can get better. He ran a 4.5 40, 9th amongst the 20 safeties at the combine who ran the 40. From what I've watched he plays bigger than he is which. He's only 200 lbs and he plays like a linebacker and that doesn't bode well for injury concerns. He's inconsistent in the angles he takes which is a huge concern when we already have a secondary that can't tackle. At Safety, I want Justin Reid from Stanford, Derwin James from Florida State or Terrell Edmunds from VT.

Reid is my #1 S in this draft so I agree there, but he's not going to be on the board @ 60....I could be swayed to take Reid at 28, because I like some 2nd rd LBs almost as much as Evans.

 

[Yo Tee]

Reid is my #1 S in this draft so I agree there, but he's not going to be on the board @ 60....I could be swayed to take Reid at 28, because I like some 2nd rd LBs almost as much as Evans.

I think we can all agree that Reid will not be available at 60 and noone ever said he will be. He's a first round talent and might even be gone before 28. Living in Charlotte, there's a lot of buzz about Reid because the Panthers have CB/S issues as well. That's been my argument all along. There are LBs in the 2nd round that are as good or can do almost identical things as Evans can. There aren't that many Safeties in the 2nd round that we can get that are gonna be identical or as good as Reid, James or Edmunds.

 

[Yo Tee]

Yes you are confusing yourself because you are wanting to have an entirely different discussion. Which I understand and that's fine, you just don't seem to understand that I was trying to have Discussion A when you are derailing it with Discussion B. This entire post is one huge contradiction because you finally end up back at Discussion A.

Discussion A: Evans at 28.

Discussion B: Reid at 28.

That's 2 entirely different scenarios, meaning 2 entirely different discussions. If that mock had Reid at 28, then we'd be having the discussion that you are spearheading. Again, I simply asked why you are dismissing Bates based off that mock and you're main argument is that you'd rather have FS at 28. You can't dismiss someone in regards to Discussion A because you want to have Discussion B. If you had originally dismissed him and then brought up the bolded section above then that would have been more constructive to the conversation.

I answered your question here:

In this mock draft, at 60, I would take Marcus Allen from Penn State. He's a senior who's played a lot longer in college to refine his skills. He's a bruiser down field. He could be good on special teams as well. He blocked the OSU FG in 2016 that won them the B1G Title. Allen outperformed Bates at the combine in the vertical, broad and 20 yd cone drills. The things I see with Allen is that he hesitates too much. His instincts need to get better and he's just got 1 INT in college. But, I think he's got a better upside than Bates.

 

[Yo Tee]

Nobody around here is afraid of it. We are simply more realistic to the possibility of it than you are.

If Buffalo can do it just by adding a shit tackle, we got a couple shit tackles we can use to package a deal to move up. It's really not that unrealistic.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I answered your question here:

Referenced that here:

Yes you are confusing yourself because you are wanting This entire post is one huge contradiction because you finally end up back at Discussion A.