2018 draft thread

[ehb5]

So you really think a 56% passer, with over 1500 yards rushing and 21 rushing TDs is going to be brought in and turned into a pocket passer who simply runs occasionally?? I dont see it. He averages more rushing attempts than passing attempts per game. If you draft him, you are taking that into account and building your offense around that.

Yes?

I'm sure he'll still run in the pros but not nearly as much as he does in college.

You aren't building your offense around that. It's just a part of it. Just something else he can do (and a good thing not a bad thing).

 

[skinsdad62]

look i saw some good things from him vs purdue and i saw him pull the ball down and run when he had open wrs .
now i think he can learn to play through his reads but he does have to work on things . accuracy is huge , reading defenses (at a pro level ) pocket mechanics ,things like that

certainly not something that cant be overcome , mind you , but you would have to determine if he is coach-able too

i wouldnt pull him from my draft board

 

[gkekoa]

Also any time the main comparison used to describe a player is Mike Vick, to me thats like a huge negative.

So throwing on time and accurately would be an issue? I agree.

 

[ehb5]

*sigh*

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I just won't penalize them for running a spread.

Especially when they're super talented physically as passers and runners, and can read defenses, and make progressions and decisions better than the other QBs in the class.

Jackson might bust like anybody else but people are criticizing him for basically just not looking enough like what they think a qb should be.

If you are suggesting race then think again. I had the same doubts about Manziel & lots of other QBs. I am just suggesting that this type of scheme & related QB rarely work out well in the NFL. I also saw Jackson fall apart at times last season. We will see. Would not mind being wrong at all.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Well the biggest comeback in history was led by Brian Hoyer. How did that workout?

Yep & the two most memorable comebacks in college & NFL were led by Frank Reich - a career backup.

 

[skinsdad62]

it wont happen but jackson should stay the full 4 years get some pro coaching in the all star games while working on being a pro passer and i think he can be a good qb in the NFL

 

[ehb5]

If you are suggesting race then think again. I had the same doubts about Manziel & lots of other QBs. I am just suggesting that this type of scheme & related QB rarely work out well in the NFL. I also saw Jackson fall apart at times last season. We will see. Would not mind being wrong at all.

Im not sure where you got that from what I wrote there....


Ive seen a lot of people say its actually a very complex scheme that uses a lot of pro concepts. Hes not running some gimmick offense here. At worst its your typical college spread offense which isnt that scary.

As for type of QB...its a mixed bag of results. Just like it is with every other type of QB.

Put it this way...we KNOW hes physically gifted. That parts easy to see. So the criticisms are mostly about his mental game. But his mental game is arguably (and IMO) the best in the class. I dont get why people would rule that kind of prospect out. Like you said...we will see. Anything could happen. But I think hes easily at least as good a prospect right now as Darnold, Rosen, or whoever the hell else is out there.

 

[gkekoa]

Im not sure where you got that from what I wrote there....


Ive seen a lot of people say its actually a very complex scheme that uses a lot of pro concepts. Hes not running some gimmick offense here. At worst its your typical college spread offense which isnt that scary.

As for type of QB...its a mixed bag of results. Just like it is with every other type of QB.

Put it this way...we KNOW hes physically gifted. That parts easy to see. So the criticisms are mostly about his mental game. But his mental game is arguably (and IMO) the best in the class. I dont get why people would rule that kind of prospect out. Like you said...we will see. Anything could happen. But I think hes easily at least as good a prospect right now as Darnold, Rosen, or whoever the hell else is out there.

Nobody is saying don't take him. We are just saying he may not be 1.

 

[Sharkinva]

Nobody is saying don't take him. We are just saying he may not be 1.

Well to be honest Im saying dont take him. Every few years there is a guy that comes out, gets compared to Vick and people start dreaming of how he might be the one to transcend and change the QB position. Usually this is a guy who is gifted athletically, and about a 50-56% passer. Blazing speed. And people always assume you can change one of these guys into a pass first QB and improve his accuracy and you will have the next generation of what NFL QBs should be.

Me, I see a guy who is going to be hyped to the moon, likely cost a top five to top ten pick when all is said and done, and if he doesnt go to the right coach and the right support system.. RG4.5


No thanks

 

[skinsdad62]

he is a career 56.3 % passer . accuracy must be a concern .

he has got to at least make 60% . he started out well at 65% vs purdue , if he can keep that up then you could have something

i only can think of 2 really hard core runners who developed as passer Randal Cunningham (late ) and Steve Young

Russell Wilson certainly is a guy who can run and has mastered the pocket but i dont think running was his first asset but add him if you like

 

[ehb5]

Nobody is saying don't take him. We are just saying he may not be 1.

Which is totally fair. Way too early to be saying anybody should or shouldn't be #1. For all I care you can prefer Darnold and Rosen and allen to him.

I jus hate how quickly jackson gets dismissed just because he doesn't fit what people are used to in a qb. And because people don't actually watch players before they make claims. As shark pointed some people are outright dismissing him right now which I think is downright ridiculous.

 

[ehb5]

Well to be honest Im saying dont take him. Every few years there is a guy that comes out, gets compared to Vick and people start dreaming of how he might be the one to transcend and change the QB position. Usually this is a guy who is gifted athletically, and about a 50-56% passer. Blazing speed. And people always assume you can change one of these guys into a pass first QB and improve his accuracy and you will have the next generation of what NFL QBs should be.

Me, I see a guy who is going to be hyped to the moon, likely cost a top five to top ten pick when all is said and done, and if he doesnt go to the right coach and the right support system.. RG4.5


No thanks

Mmmm I don't know about that. Jackson is definitely the first Vick esque prospect I can think of in a while. Rg3 maybe but he really didn't have that same kind of agility and quickness it was more straight line speed.

Regardless though, each prospect should be judged on his own traits and abilities. And Jackson has some really good traits. His pocket presence and pocket movement is really good. He has a strong arm with a quick release and throws some absolute dimes. He makes calls at the line, he progresses through his reads during plays, he keeps his eyes downfield when scrambling. I'm not sure there's another prospect in this class who can say that. So again dismissing him completely when he has all that going for him is crazy.

As for rg4.5...I mean that's just making a massive assumption about his mental makeup and just not fair. Far as I can tell he's got the skills and tools to play any system.

 

[ehb5]

he is a career 56.3 % passer . accuracy must be a concern .

he has got to at least make 60% . he started out well at 65% vs purdue , if he can keep that up then you could have something

i only can think of 2 really hard core runners who developed as passer Randal Cunningham (late ) and Steve Young

Russell Wilson certainly is a guy who can run and has mastered the pocket but i dont think running was his first asset but add him if you like

Maybe. But that's a little arbitrary. There's no context on those numbers. He's at worst inconsistent with his accuracy.

As for running qbs...I think it's unfair to view him solely in that lens. If andrew luck also had the athleticism of Vick he wouldn't suddenly become a bad prospect. He'd be even better. It's just another positive. Doesn't make or break him as a prospect.

 

[gkekoa]

Which is totally fair. Way too early to be saying anybody should or shouldn't be #1. For all I care you can prefer Darnold and Rosen and allen to him.

I jus hate how quickly jackson gets dismissed just because he doesn't fit what people are used to in a qb. And because people don't actually watch players before they make claims. As shark pointed some people are outright dismissing him right now which I think is downright ridiculous.

I dont think Shark is totally dismissing him. If be was there in the 2nd, but he thought he was worth the risk, he would take him. He just evaluates him lower than most.

 

[skinsdad62]

Maybe. But that's a little arbitrary. There's no context on those numbers. He's at worst inconsistent with his accuracy.

As for running qbs...I think it's unfair to view him solely in that lens. If andrew luck also had the athleticism of Vick he wouldn't suddenly become a bad prospect. He'd be even better. It's just another positive. Doesn't make or break him as a prospect.

what context do you need , in 24 games he completes 56% . its cut and dried his accuracy is wanting .

can it be fixed ? yes but lets not say jackson doesnt have warts

 

[Sportster 72]

Smart move using Petrino family motto to craft Louisville offense to Lamar Jackson

The Louisville Cardinals Double Wing Formation - Inside The Pylon

 

[Sharkinva]

Which is totally fair. Way too early to be saying anybody should or shouldn't be #1. For all I care you can prefer Darnold and Rosen and allen to him.

I jus hate how quickly jackson gets dismissed just because he doesn't fit what people are used to in a qb. And because people don't actually watch players before they make claims. As shark pointed some people are outright dismissing him right now which I think is downright ridiculous.

Again dude, IM not a fan of running QBs and that is what he is. I dont expect that to change once he gets into the NFL. And the RG4.5 comment was not to say he was lacking mentally (which I think Bob was) but more to say that on this level he is not going to be faster than half the players on the field. Much like Vick and Griffin, I expect he will take time to adjust to a pocket passer (if at all) and during that time he will fall back to what has worked for him. Which to me says he will be an injury risk at some point due to his style of play. So yea, I dismiss him out of hand and think he would be a mistake because I wasnt a fan of McNabb, or Cunningham, or Manziel or Vick. I would have tolerate Tannehill because we were dead set on drafting a QB and I didnt want us to trade up for one. As I suspect the only way we get Jackson is to either suck ass this year or trade up to get him. I cant think of any situation as to where i would be pleased with us drafting him. Period.

 

[Sleepy T]

Not sure if he will be coming out this year... but look out for Will Grier QB WVU. He played very well the other night vs. VT. He can sling it.

By the way @countryroads316 how'd you like that game?

 

[Stymietee]

It is a waste of valuable talent and an opportunity to expand the supply pool when QB's like Jackson are dismissed without a credible effort to transition them into the NFL game.

Greed, impatience, laziness, and dysfunction and the "one size fits all" attitude that insists that "Baptism by fire" is the only way, are all earmarks of this type of "thinking?" This was exhibited in Washington after the 2012 NFL draft then adjusted to some degree in Tennessee after the 2015 draft.