2018 draft thread

[ehb5]

So my post was mostly tongue in cheek because you and I have talked about this many times. I have barely watched this kid. He had some skills when I watched. No doubt. As far as reading defenses and making progressions .... what they do in college does not come close to what they need to do in the pros. Spread or pro style doesn't matter. The game amps up 10 times compared to college. This supports Sty's idea that kids out of college should get a couple of years to learn. I agree with Sty on this point.

What we do know is that college QBs in a pro style offense have faired better in the NFL. There is also an issue with LTs in option offenses. They are no where near as prepared for the NFL. I think the NFL is sort of morphing into the spread offense more but the difference in defenses in the NFL is so much higher in talent, speed and skill that I am not sure that offenses can totally make that change.

I agree which is part of the reason that its so hard to accurately predict who will and wont bust. Plus we dont really know these players mental makeup and so many other factors.

But...

When people say Jackson cant play in the NFL because he isnt an NFL style QB...yikes. Jackson DOES do all of the mental stuff at a very high level for college. No maybe he wont in the pros...but that applies to everybody. If he's mentally ahead of Darnold, Rosen, and Allen...whyyyy is he the one being nitpicked as "wont be able to play in the NFL"


And I know your just messing with your comment and we agree on a lot of this I think and certainly am not directing these complaints at you. But just look in this thread alone and there are a lot of nonsensical comments made any time Jackson comes up.

 

[Sportster 72]

It is why so many NFL QBs bust. You cannot easily translate college skills to the NFL no matter the system. As I said we know that more good NFL QBs played in a pro style offense in college. We are agreeing. I lean towards pro style QBs, but even then you need to see how they play. There is no guarantee either way.

They aren't going to change in college, you can teach these kids and easier concept which helps the schools. Ohio State and Penn State have changed. They were old school pro style offense schools. Even before the spread was the big deal in college drafting a QB is a crap shoot. Who thought Wilson and Cousin's were/might be the top two QBs in their draft year.

 

[Sportster 72]

An addition to that is look for guys who are college coaches (often assistants) that have developed QBs who were successful in the NFL. I can't remember the coaches name at MD years ago but he sent Boomer, Reich and a couple of others to the NFL. Only Boomer was a star but he had a reputation. David Cutcliffe is another he coached both Eli and Peyton at different schools. Whoever is at Cal has done a pretty good job. Michigan was churning out QBs for hears.

 

[gkekoa]

What should a QB look like?

Ability to move inside the pocket, read defenses, mechanically sound, quick release, accurate, and most importantly a hard worker that can absorb information.

Oh, and they should be white. I am totally kidding, but I figured you were hoping I would say that.

 

[ehb5]

Ability to move inside the pocket, read defenses, mechanically sound, quick release, accurate, and most importantly a hard worker that can absorb information.

Oh, and they should be white. I am totally kidding, but I figured you were hoping I would say that.

Jackson has all of that + can run. So whats the problem?

As for being white - no I wasnt hoping you would say that, that would be a weird thing for me to hope for lol.

I think a lot of people do view black QBs differently and I think they get talked about very differently than white QBs without a doubt.

But I wouldnt jump to that conclusion on here about somebody unless I really felt it was accurate.

That said - being a mobile QB changes the way players are viewed. Yes Jackson is mobile. And guess what - he's still really good at the pocket QB aspects of the game. Assuming he isnt because he's a mobile college QB who won a heisman with flashy play is - at best - lazy analysis.

 

[gkekoa]

Jackson has all of that + can run. So whats the problem?

As for being white - no I wasnt hoping you would say that, that would be a weird thing for me to hope for lol.

I think a lot of people do view black QBs differently and I think they get talked about very differently than white QBs without a doubt.

But I wouldnt jump to that conclusion on here about somebody unless I really felt it was accurate.

That said - being a mobile QB changes the way players are viewed. Yes Jackson is mobile. And guess what - he's still really good at the pocket QB aspects of the game. Assuming he isnt because he's a mobile college QB who won a heisman with flashy play is - at best - lazy analysis.

If he has all of that, then I am sure he will be the top QB. I haven't seen all of those things from him. I question his mechanics, pocket presence, and his accuracy. Poor accuracy is frequently a result of poor mechanics.

 

[gkekoa]

Jackson has all of that + can run. So whats the problem?

As for being white - no I wasnt hoping you would say that, that would be a weird thing for me to hope for lol.

I think a lot of people do view black QBs differently and I think they get talked about very differently than white QBs without a doubt.

But I wouldnt jump to that conclusion on here about somebody unless I really felt it was accurate.

That said - being a mobile QB changes the way players are viewed. Yes Jackson is mobile. And guess what - he's still really good at the pocket QB aspects of the game. Assuming he isnt because he's a mobile college QB who won a heisman with flashy play is - at best - lazy analysis.

I agree that black QBs get talked about differently. I think a huge part of that is most are great athletically, and they run more frequently. With the exception of Warren Moon, I can't think of another great black QB, and he wasn't a runner. Russell Wilson is making a run at changing that.

The reason I came to that conclusion is your defense of RG3 and a constant push for black QBs. Now I could be entirely wrong, but that is how I came to that conclusion. Conclusions can change.

I see his running as a huge part of his game. I don't see the same pocket skills as you. It isn't lazy analysis...it is simply analysis.

 

[skinsdad62]

all young qbs rely on their best attribute when they cant read a defense . with some running is it

 

[Stymietee]

WOW!!

 

[Sharkinva]

Come on guys, lets not act as if some folks have not fallen in love with Jackson because of his skin tone and style of play. Just as some are dead set against him because of his style of play, and his skin tone.

My take, his style of play doesnt fit what we have bee doing as an offense. Im not sold Gruden can or will adjust his offense to fit with Jackson skill set. And at the end of the day, if we are drafting a QB, we are likely looking for a coach irrespective of color or skill set of the QB in question.

 

[Sportster 72]

Still hoping we can keep Kirk .... no thoughts of a college QB at the moment.

 

[ehb5]

all young qbs rely on their best attribute when they cant read a defense . with some running is it

While this is true it doesn't really apply to jackson. He can read a defense. And he can run. So he does both.

 

[ehb5]

Come on guys, lets not act as if some folks have not fallen in love with Jackson because of his skin tone and style of play. Just as some are dead set against him because of his style of play, and his skin tone.

My take, his style of play doesnt fit what we have bee doing as an offense. Im not sold Gruden can or will adjust his offense to fit with Jackson skill set. And at the end of the day, if we are drafting a QB, we are likely looking for a coach irrespective of color or skill set of the QB in question.

What wouldn't he be able to do in this offense?

 

[Sharkinva]

What wouldn't he be able to do in this offense?

My first thought would be, play within the confines of how the offense is designed. Most mobile QBs have a tendency to hold onto the ball a little longer than is safe in the NFL. And as i stated, I dont see gruden tweaking the offense to fit his particular style of play. So having that mobile QB is kinda like having a Farrari and living in Down Town DC. Yea it looks nice, but are you really going to get the benefit out of it?

 

[Sharkinva]

Also any time the main comparison used to describe a player is Mike Vick, to me thats like a huge negative.

 

[ehb5]

My first thought would be, play within the confines of how the offense is designed. Most mobile QBs have a tendency to hold onto the ball a little longer than is safe in the NFL. And as i stated, I dont see gruden tweaking the offense to fit his particular style of play. So having that mobile QB is kinda like having a Farrari and living in Down Town DC. Yea it looks nice, but are you really going to get the benefit out of it?

See I think that's a case of just assuming because he's mobile he can't do that. I don't see any reason to think he wouldn't get the ball out very quickly.

Let's assume jackson runs only when he really needs to. No more design runs than we do now, no change to offensive system. He could still be an amazing player. His running is a part of his game not the entirety of it.

 

[ehb5]

Also any time the main comparison used to describe a player is Mike Vick, to me thats like a huge negative.

Eh. Vick was supremely talented.

He also had several good seasons though he was certainly up and down.

If Jackson is earning comps to college Vick that's much more good than it is bad.

 

[Sharkinva]

Eh. Vick was supremely talented.

He also had several good seasons though he was certainly up and down.

If Jackson is earning comps to college Vick that's much more good than it is bad.

Then we differ in opinion. I dont want a Vick, or a Vick type. A 200lb running QB begs for injury. Been there done that. Hell the only reason Cam gets away with it is because he has that extra 45lbs to absorb the hits he takes.

 

[ehb5]

Then we differ in opinion. I dont want a Vick, or a Vick type. A 200lb running QB begs for injury. Been there done that. Hell the only reason Cam gets away with it is because he has that extra 45lbs to absorb the hits he takes.

Jackson and cousins are the same size...

I don't think anybody expects jackson to play like cam. That would be ridiculous.

He can play in the pocket and run on occasion like any other qb.

 

[Sharkinva]

Jackson and cousins are the same size...

I don't think anybody expects jackson to play like cam. That would be ridiculous.

He can play in the pocket and run on occasion like any other qb.

So you really think a 56% passer, with over 1500 yards rushing and 21 rushing TDs is going to be brought in and turned into a pocket passer who simply runs occasionally?? I dont see it. He averages more rushing attempts than passing attempts per game. If you draft him, you are taking that into account and building your offense around that.