2016 NFL Salary Cap QF 4 : Sushi vs Shane

[MilkSpiller22]

Wilson and Carr are about a wash. I do have a question about your no speed assessment.. where is the speed on Sushi's offense? Arian Foster ain't exactly Bo Jackson. Cooper, Cobb and Sanders...which one is faster than Andre Johnson. Not knocking Sushi's squad, I just don't get your argument

It doesn't matter if sushi has it...

The ONLY reason to vote Shane over sushi is because of the receivers/TE... So his receivers/TE gets judged differently than Sushi's...

I never said i liked sushi's receivers better...

also, when i bring up speed, it is not just how fast they are running in open field, its about how they can make those moves... I consider sanders and Cobb more of a speed receiver than i would Johnson, even if Johnson can run the 40 yard dash faster...

But whatever... seems like i am the minority here...

 

[CitySushi]

Appreciate the debate on my squad. I think it's close, but the biggest thing I think most people are discounting is my ability to generate a pass rush with my front 4. My D-line would dominate Shane's oline and force Wilson out of the pocket and have to move. While his running ability is a huge threat, the ability to generate a pass rush with my front 4 allows all 3 of my linebackers to be out in space for coverage. All 3 and big hitters too so if you want to let Wilson run all game and be subject to hits from them all game, that's to my advantage in the long run.

Also Wilfork and Donald being able to plug the run holes is huge for me not committing any additional help from my secondary to the run game. I love Frank Gore, but he's a pure North/South runner. He's not good laterally, and having those two up front to plug holes nullifies his run game to a large degree.

His receivers are all big, but having two play making safeties over the top help immensely.

As for my offense, I have more lateral speed for quick routes to nullify Shane's pass rush. He has Mack and Miller rushing the QB, meaning he has 5 dedicated towards a rush at all times. Foster being a great receiving back, with Cobb and Sanders on quick routes, helps to open up the field for me. My O-Line is really solid too, adding Miller and Bennett to block gives me much more time in the pocket.

I think my team dominates both line of scrimmages which goes a long way towards giving my team the edge in a close battle. Big plays are always a problem, but my team is set up to prevent big plays, while also being able to systematically move down the field.

IMO.

 

[wlk3]

your definitely correct... it is a huge factor... not trying to say it is not... I just have a hard time voting for a team that loses in every aspect of the match EXCEPT his receivers... While he focused so hard on making an elite offense, but is kind of one dimensional at that...

I know i am being too hard on shane's offense, part of it is because i think Russell Wilson is over-rated...

I was on the fence on Wilson too hearing how "when healthy"... but I've seen enough to say the guy is a beast... reminds me of Doug Flutie who was a hell of a player too... but to my other point... just in order of them being listed...

Hall - 5'10 197 vs Johnson - 6'3" 219 - 5" 22pounds
Grimes - 5'10" 180 vs Marshall - 6'4" 229 - 6" 49 pounds
Davis - 6'0" 205 vs Benjamin - 6'5" 240 - 5" 35 pounds

Then Gronk... that's a lot of size to overcome and then Gore... He has been great his whole career... as much as I really like Sushis team I just think Shane takes it...

 

[ehb5]

If sushi wins this it's because his dline overpowers Shane's oline but I think Shane still pulls it out. I think we're underrating Shane's defense a bit too. Close game but I'm going shane

 

[wlk3]

Appreciate the debate on my squad. I think it's close, but the biggest thing I think most people are discounting is my ability to generate a pass rush with my front 4. My D-line would dominate Shane's oline and force Wilson out of the pocket and have to move. While his running ability is a huge threat, the ability to generate a pass rush with my front 4 allows all 3 of my linebackers to be out in space for coverage. All 3 and big hitters too so if you want to let Wilson run all game and be subject to hits from them all game, that's to my advantage in the long run.

Also Wilfork and Donald being able to plug the run holes is huge for me not committing any additional help from my secondary to the run game. I love Frank Gore, but he's a pure North/South runner. He's not good laterally, and having those two up front to plug holes nullifies his run game to a large degree.

His receivers are all big, but having two play making safeties over the top help immensely.

As for my offense, I have more lateral speed for quick routes to nullify Shane's pass rush. He has Mack and Miller rushing the QB, meaning he has 5 dedicated towards a rush at all times. Foster being a great receiving back, with Cobb and Sanders on quick routes, helps to open up the field for me. My O-Line is really solid too, adding Miller and Bennett to block gives me much more time in the pocket.

I think my team dominates both line of scrimmages which goes a long way towards giving my team the edge in a close battle. Big plays are always a problem, but my team is set up to prevent big plays, while also being able to systematically move down the field.

IMO.

You make great points, my biggest concern is his size and the scramble ability... he has a solid line not good enough to hold you but good enough to give Wilson options... he doesn't just run though, runs for the purpose of finding an outlet... Shane's size gives him great outlets that will allow him to throw it up... this team is built like the Seahawks with Lynch who was also more of a north/south runner... IMO you get a matchup with a less mobile QB or less of a size difference you're extremely hard to beat... might be my favorite team in the draft, but when 2 great teams face off I look to who can exploit what... whomever has a bigger advantage there is the winner... I think that is the biggest advantage in this match... I can add I'm not huge on Foster, I know he dominated for a while but I didn't nt think he causes enough disruption to overtake Shane's advantage...

 

[CitySushi]

You make great points, my biggest concern is his size and the scramble ability... he has a solid line not good enough to hold you but good enough to give Wilson options... he doesn't just run though, runs for the purpose of finding an outlet... Shane's size gives him great outlets that will allow him to throw it up... this team is built like the Seahawks with Lynch who was also more of a north/south runner... IMO you get a matchup with a less mobile QB or less of a size difference you're extremely hard to beat... might be my favorite team in the draft, but when 2 great teams face off I look to who can exploit what... whomever has a bigger advantage there is the winner... I think that is the biggest advantage in this match... I can add I'm not huge on Foster, I know he dominated for a while but I didn't nt think he causes enough disruption to overtake Shane's advantage...

The premise that Shane's team will just throw the ball up and let someone go get it actually plays into my favor with my secondary. Again from top to bottom I think I have one of the best secondaries in this draft. With Berry and Harper to help out without having to provide additional run support is huge for this. It does a huge disservice to my secondary's ability to simply cover the WR's. Yes there will be occasional balls where Shane's team has advantage but solely relying on that to set them apart is a bit thin, IMO.

The biggest thing with the Seahawks approach was the ability to control the line of scrimmage. My team does both. The pass rush is also what sets up the cover game. If you're able to get a pass rush, you make your secondary look exponentially better. They're already good as is.

 

[Nosferatu]

Congrats Shane

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yes, but you lose the battle at the lines so badly that Russell Wilson would be scrambling for his life all game... he does make great plays on the run, but he has never faced a defense like this... I just don't see it...

Lose the battle at the lines? Can't play press coverage or your CB's will be on the ground. They have big bodies, there is a reason why they are great WR's, they know how to win the position battle plus Andre was very fast. The logic makes absolutely no sense. Basically you are saying you wanted fast WR's, doesn't matter about talent lol.

 

[Shanemansj13]

It doesn't matter if sushi has it...

The ONLY reason to vote Shane over sushi is because of the receivers/TE... So his receivers/TE gets judged differently than Sushi's...

I never said i liked sushi's receivers better...

also, when i bring up speed, it is not just how fast they are running in open field, its about how they can make those moves... I consider sanders and Cobb more of a speed receiver than i would Johnson, even if Johnson can run the 40 yard dash faster...

But whatever... seems like i am the minority here...

Or my front 7 lol. I have the best LB's in this draft other than UK.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Or my front 7 lol. I have the best LB's in this draft other than UK.

you do have great linebackers... i wanted them all... LOL... but would easily take sushi's front 7 over yours...

 

[Shanemansj13]

Appreciate the debate on my squad. I think it's close, but the biggest thing I think most people are discounting is my ability to generate a pass rush with my front 4. My D-line would dominate Shane's oline and force Wilson out of the pocket and have to move. While his running ability is a huge threat, the ability to generate a pass rush with my front 4 allows all 3 of my linebackers to be out in space for coverage. All 3 and big hitters too so if you want to let Wilson run all game and be subject to hits from them all game, that's to my advantage in the long run.

Also Wilfork and Donald being able to plug the run holes is huge for me not committing any additional help from my secondary to the run game. I love Frank Gore, but he's a pure North/South runner. He's not good laterally, and having those two up front to plug holes nullifies his run game to a large degree.

His receivers are all big, but having two play making safeties over the top help immensely.

As for my offense, I have more lateral speed for quick routes to nullify Shane's pass rush. He has Mack and Miller rushing the QB, meaning he has 5 dedicated towards a rush at all times. Foster being a great receiving back, with Cobb and Sanders on quick routes, helps to open up the field for me. My O-Line is really solid too, adding Miller and Bennett to block gives me much more time in the pocket.

I think my team dominates both line of scrimmages which goes a long way towards giving my team the edge in a close battle. Big plays are always a problem, but my team is set up to prevent big plays, while also being able to systematically move down the field.

IMO.

Most likely you have double cover all my WR's except Benjamin. Who is covering Gronk? just wondering...

 

[Shanemansj13]

you do have great linebackers... i wanted them all... LOL... but would easily take sushi's front 7 over yours...

His d-line is the best in this draft, no doubt

 

[MilkSpiller22]

His d-line is the best in this draft, no doubt

and felt like your OL was one of the worst... Not sure why people don't consider this more of a mismatch...

 

[UK Cowboy]

and felt like your OL was one of the worst... Not sure why people don't consider this more of a mismatch...

You think that's more of a mismatch than Sushi's OL vs Shane's front 7?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You think that's more of a mismatch than Sushi's OL vs Shane's front 7?

Definitely bigger... Sushi's OL and DL are both better than Shane's...

 

[CitySushi]

Most likely you have double cover all my WR's except Benjamin. Who is covering Gronk? just wondering...

The scenario (as it plays out in my head, lol), would be that KJ Wright would be the primary cover on Gronk with Berry being the over the top help. Burfict would be my spy for Russell and Johnson would clean up over the middle. Both KJ and Burfict would be interchangable though with their speed.

I would put Peppers and Donald on the right side of your line with Wilfork and Mathis on the left. I would try to flush Wilson out of the pocket to his left which is much more difficult to throw from as a righty.

Seeing as you'll have Gronk out as a receiver for 95% of the game, you would essentially have 6 guys(including FB) to cover my 4, all whom at their best require a double every time.

Your passing game would take a hit because none of your receivers are quick route receivers. You would have to wait for a bit of a play to develop in order to throw to them. That's my advantage in coverage.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Definitely bigger... Sushi's OL and DL are both better than Shane's...

I think Miller and Mack get the same pass rush that Sushi's ends get

 

[CitySushi]

You think that's more of a mismatch than Sushi's OL vs Shane's front 7?

I would argue that Shane's front 3 are just space eaters mostly, with two primary rushers in Mack and Miller. That means he has 5 dedicated to a pass rush at all times, leaving much more of the flat open. My team with Cobb, Sanders and Foster would be quick route receivers to help alleviate some of the pressure and also attack the second level. IMO.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think Miller and Mack get the same pass rush that Sushi's ends get

But again, Sushi's OL is better... so even if you want to call the DL's WITH the LBs equal sushi will stop it slightly better... Not to mention that if he relies so much on the LB to help the DL then there will be more arian foster in the passing game...

 

[Shanemansj13]

Definitely bigger... Sushi's OL and DL are both better than Shane's...

First off Clady and Mathis are pretty damn good and so is Richburg. My right side isn't the strongest but great but ok overall.

Hard to compare 3-4 and 4-3 defensive lines honestly...my NT Williams is one of the best run stoppers in the game today. Kyle Williams is very underrated, a very good player and Wilkerson well you know how good he is. The point is a 4-3 d-line has a different task than a 3-4 line. I think mine is pretty solid. Miller and Mack edge rusher as well as LB's...the only team that could compete with that was UK and I just played him.

I think you are just looking at it all different.