2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[WiggyRuss]

Point is very few teams are successful in this league trying to rebuild strictly through the draft.

totally agreee- but if you rely on free agency and plan on signing one major big time players- chances are- you are gonna come up short- or you are going to be disapointed.

 

[bksballer89]

totally agreee- but if you rely on free agency and plan on signing one major big time players- chances are- you are gonna come up short- or you are going to be disapointed.

Relying on strictly free agency is dumb as well. As I been saying since yesterday, you need to do both well

 

[bksballer89]

You can be successful in free agency without landing a superstar.

 

[bksballer89]

The Sixers has done a terrible job of drafting since they started tanking. A lot of their draft picks are not even with their team. Trust me, the sixers way of rebuilding is not the way other teams want to go about it. They have been a failure

 

[WiggyRuss]

Relying on strictly free agency is dumb as well. As I been saying since yesterday, you need to do both well

ehh....well- you need it to bring in role players- my point is- if you plan on bringing in a star to be your best player or something close to it- that usually doesnt work.

The Warriors drafted curry, klay and draymond- they filled in via free agency iguadala and livingston--- and traded for bogut

The Thudner drafted durant, rw, and harden, ibaka- etc....didnt really do much in free agency

the Spurs?-- almost all home grown- Duncan, Parker, Ginobili of course- filled in on the fringes in free agency.

Cleveland of course was able to get LEBron to come back as this was his home town- and they offered him a better chance to win then Miami.

Miami of course signed LEBron/Wade and Bosh- but again- like Durant- it was a special circumstance- and again- what are we looking at? 6-7 major guys moving in a decade span throguh free agency.

but you certainly dont have to sign a major guy in free agency to be successful- i think supplementing through free agency is the best- because major guys in their primes just barely move...it barely ever happens.


a lot of the time these guys move through trade- thats why its so important to have those assets--- KG, Love, Deron Williams from Utah, Dwight Howard, CP3, Carmelo, Harden....

 

[WiggyRuss]

The Sixers has done a terrible job of drafting since they started tanking. A lot of their draft picks are not even with their team. Trust me, the sixers way of rebuilding is not the way other teams want to go about it. They have been a failure

who is terrible that they drafted?

Saric is 22
Embiid is 22
Simmons is 20
Okafor is 20
Noel is 22

i mean- obviously I think that drafting Noel is the one you would have back as they drafted so many big men- but he was the first one to get drafted- was predicted by many to be the #1 pick before getting hurt- and even after getting hurt possibly- and dropped to 7

Embiid- of course was a huge risk- but before he went down people were convinced he was going #1 over great prospects wiggins and parker--- and thus far since he has been healthy he has looked freaking great

we have no clue what Saric and Simmons are since they have barely played- if at all- but they are both extremely highly regarded

Lakers took Russell instead of Okafor- at that point Okafor was the best player on the board.

How can you say its a failure when those guys are so young and we have no clue what they are?--- let these young guys play for a couple years- see who gets good- and then spend bigtime cash to bring in 2-3 free agents to supplement. Its exactly what the Cavs plan was. Suck- rent out your cap space for assets, get as many picks, players, and cap space as possible- and then when you have s tocked y our roster- make your move. Sign 2-3 guys--- use some of htose young guys and picks to trade for a vet.

thats the only way you can get good enough to win a title in the NBA nowadays unless you somehow hit hte free agency bonanza which is ridiculously rare.

 

[bksballer89]

who is terrible that they drafted?

Saric is 22
Embiid is 22
Simmons is 20
Okafor is 20
Noel is 22

i mean- obviously I think that drafting Noel is the one you would have back as they drafted so many big men- but he was the first one to get drafted- was predicted by many to be the #1 pick before getting hurt- and even after getting hurt possibly- and dropped to 7

Embiid- of course was a huge risk- but before he went down people were convinced he was going #1 over great prospects wiggins and parker--- and thus far since he has been healthy he has looked freaking great

we have no clue what Saric and Simmons are since they have barely played- if at all- but they are both extremely highly regarded

Lakers took Russell instead of Okafor- at that point Okafor was the best player on the board.

How can you say its a failure when those guys are so young and we have no clue what they are?--- let these young guys play for a couple years- see who gets good- and then spend bigtime cash to bring in 2-3 free agents to supplement. Its exactly what the Cavs plan was. Suck- rent out your cap space for assets, get as many picks, players, and cap space as possible- and then when you have s tocked y our roster- make your move. Sign 2-3 guys--- use some of htose young guys and picks to trade for a vet.

thats the only way you can get good enough to win a title in the NBA nowadays unless you somehow hit hte free agency bonanza which is ridiculously rare.

Terrible in the sense that they're no longer on their team which is a disaster considering that's the reason they been tanking is draft high and keep their draft picks.

Noel is ok but he is likely gone by the trade deadline.

The fact that the only players on their current roster who they drafted or acquired in round 1 on draft night in previous years (obviously excluding 2016) is Embid, Okafor, Saric, and Noel is awful considering they've been sucking since 2013 is concerning. Even more concerning knowing that Noel won't be a Sixer next year

 

[trojanfan12]

You can be successful in free agency without landing a superstar.

Agree. As you've said, it takes a combination. You can draft star players and develop them, then fill in around them via FA and trades. Or, you can put together a solid team of role players and bring in a star or 2 via trade/FA to complete the deal.

Very rare to be successful building a team 1 way.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Terrible in the sense that they're no longer on their team which is a disaster considering that's the reason they been tanking is draft high and keep their draft picks.

Noel is ok but he is likely gone by the trade deadline.

The fact that the only players on their current roster who they drafted or acquired in round 1 on draft night in previous years (obviously excluding 2016) is Embid, Okafor, Saric, and Noel is awful considering they've been sucking since 2013 is concerning. Even more concerning knowing that Noel won't be a Sixer next year

what are you talking about?

Philadelphia 76ers draft history - Wikipedia

this is their draft history. A ton of those guys are foreigners that they stashed. I mean- when yo uhave multiple first rounders thats what you do- because you dont want a team with 4 rookies on it because thats insane. They have some good young guys that they have acquired like Covington, Grant----

but- when you have traded for so many 1st round picks- thats what you tend to build around. I mean- next year they will have their own pick again and the Lakers pick- which will both again be lotto picks.

After they dealt for Bynum and that failed the roster was beyond bare. It was a complete and total tear down and they are finally on the cusp of moving into the next phase of the rebuild.

They have multiple great young players to build around. If you think that its a guarantee that when you draft in the lotto that guys work out - yo uare nuts.

Ill guarantee you that 2 years from now the Sixers will be in much better shape then the HEat.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Agree. As you've said, it takes a combination. You can draft star players and develop them, then fill in around them via FA and trades. Or, you can put together a solid team of role players and bring in a star or 2 via trade/FA to complete the deal.

Very rare to be successful building a team 1 way.

im just saying its EXCEEDINGLY rare to pull off bringing in 1 star, let alone multiple stars in free agency. If thats your strategy its likely to fail. How many "stars" that can make a true difference have moved via free agency in the last decade?

a lot of the time those guys move via trade- much more than free agency- especially in todays system.

 

[trojanfan12]

im just saying its EXCEEDINGLY rare to pull off bringing in 1 star, let alone multiple stars in free agency. If thats your strategy its likely to fail. How many "stars" that can make a true difference have moved via free agency in the last decade?

a lot of the time those guys move via trade- much more than free agency- especially in todays system.

You read the part where I said :

bring in a star or 2 via trade/FA to complete the deal.

Right?

 

[WiggyRuss]

if you asked a GM

would you rather have Ben Simmons, Joel Embiid, Dario Saric, Jahlil Okafor, Nerleans Noel, Robert Covington, Nik Stauskas, and an extra lotto pick next year, and a boatload of o ther extra draft picks

or

Justice Winslow, Hassan Whiteside, Tyler Johnson, and Josh Richardson- and owe 2 lightly protected first round picks to other teams- and not have a 2nd rounder this year or any year for the next NBA Future Drafts Detailed - RealGM... i mean im looking at this draft chart and it doesnt look like the Heat have a 2nd round pick until President Trumps term is over- beyond that actually- unless i am reading it wrong.

i mean thats an easy answer

 

[WiggyRuss]

You read the part where I said :



Right?

ya gotta have the assets to make a trade for one of those guys though- and thats not easy....id say the Lakers def have those kind of assets - but youd have to prob trade guys you dont want to trade- its a tough decision- im sure the Cavs werent exactly thrilled with giving up wiggins.

 

[bksballer89]

what are you talking about?

Philadelphia 76ers draft history - Wikipedia

this is their draft history. A ton of those guys are foreigners that they stashed. I mean- when yo uhave multiple first rounders thats what you do- because you dont want a team with 4 rookies on it because thats insane. They have some good young guys that they have acquired like Covington, Grant----

but- when you have traded for so many 1st round picks- thats what you tend to build around. I mean- next year they will have their own pick again and the Lakers pick- which will both again be lotto picks.

After they dealt for Bynum and that failed the roster was beyond bare. It was a complete and total tear down and they are finally on the cusp of moving into the next phase of the rebuild.

They have multiple great young players to build around. If you think that its a guarantee that when you draft in the lotto that guys work out - yo uare nuts.

Ill guarantee you that 2 years from now the Sixers will be in much better shape then the HEat.

1) It is very rare that these European players ( especially those that are stashed away in Europe) ever become anything more than a role player.

2) Grant is no longer on the team. He is with OKC.

3) Covington is nothing special. He's an ok bench player but that's about it

4) We're talking about the Sixers. You need to stop this garbage you do and bring up Miami in every conversation when its not relevant at all.

5) Back to the draft and stash thingy. Excluding the 2 Europeans from this year, the rest of European draft picks were not high selections. These were guys they drafted late in the 2nd round. You really have all your eggs in the basket and some guys you selected mid to late 2nd round to help turn this franchise around. Wishful thinking

 

[bksballer89]

if you asked a GM

would you rather have Ben Simmons, Joel Embiid, Dario Saric, Jahlil Okafor, Nerleans Noel, Robert Covington, Nik Stauskas, and an extra lotto pick next year, and a boatload of o ther extra draft picks

or

Justice Winslow, Hassan Whiteside, Tyler Johnson, and Josh Richardson- and owe 2 lightly protected first round picks to other teams- and not have a 2nd rounder this year or any year for the next NBA Future Drafts Detailed - RealGM... i mean im looking at this draft chart and it doesnt look like the Heat have a 2nd round pick until President Trumps term is over- beyond that actually- unless i am reading it wrong.

i mean thats an easy answer

You're obsessed with the Heat. It is sickening. We're not talking about Miami. This conversation is about the Sixers. You keep trying to force Miami into a conversation where they're not relevant

 

[WiggyRuss]

that is actually rather unbelievable...

Miami owes its 2nd round pick:

in 2017 to either Atlanta or Memphis

in 2018 to either Atlanta or Memphis- who ever doesnt get it in 2017

in 2019 to Minnesota

in 2020 to Boston

in 2021 to Portland

how is that possible?

 

[bksballer89]

At the end of the day unless Ben Simmons is a superstar, the sixers will continue to be a bad team until they're good enough to acquire free agents to help improve this young team

 

[bksballer89]

My god you're awful. You really just turned a solid debate about the Sixers into a conversation about the Heat. You have a good day.

 

[trojanfan12]

ya gotta have the assets to make a trade for one of those guys though- and thats not easy....id say the Lakers def have those kind of assets - but youd have to prob trade guys you dont want to trade- its a tough decision- im sure the Cavs werent exactly thrilled with giving up wiggins.

That's where it could get a little tough for the Lakers when exploring trade possibilities. They have a nice young core that look like they could develop into contenders on their own if allowed to develop and grow together. They also appear to have the coach who can do it.

The "Let them grow up while the Warriors and Cavs start to get a little older" theory definitely has some merit.

On the other hand, there's no guarantee that will happen and the opportunity to get a young, proven superstar type player to accelerate the rebuild could be very, very tempting.

I will say though, it's nice to actually have players that could get them into that type of trade talks again.

 

[WiggyRuss]

At the end of the day unless Ben Simmons is a superstar, the sixers will continue to be a bad team until they're good enough to acquire free agents to help improve this young team

i dunno- Embiid sure looks like he can be a freaking star if he stays healthy- that is a HUUUUGE if