2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[WiggyRuss]

So basically, Matthew Dellavadova and TinaFey Mozgov were the keys to the Cavs title hopes.

Wow. Who knew?

they didnt even play in the Finals. lol.

Mozgov has kind of cratered shooting percentage wise...which isnt a surprise....52% from him is pretty awful for a center. He was up at 57% and 59% his two years with the Cavs.

If Smith wasnt hurt, and Mo actually played like he said he was going to instead of telling the Cavs he was going to play and then getting season ending surgery- this wouldnt even be an issue.

As LeBron said- he just wants bodies that can suck up regular season minutes. Obviously playing with LeBron greatly helped mozgov as he has regressed quite a bit this year. Mozgov actually played only 17 minutes a game for the Cavs- which is even less than the 21 minutes a game which he is playing for the Lakers---- but that 17 minutes was being soaked up. The Cavs were not going to pay a ton of money for a guy that was gonna play at best 20 minutes a night and wont even play in the playoffs. That just doesnst make sense to spend big money on a guy thats gonna play 20 minutes a night in my estimation.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

they didnt even play in the Finals. lol.

Mozgov has kind of cratered shooting percentage wise...which isnt a surprise....52% from him is pretty awful for a center. He was up at 57% and 59% his two years with the Cavs.

If Smith wasnt hurt, and Mo actually played like he said he was going to instead of telling the Cavs he was going to play and then getting season ending surgery- this wouldnt even be an issue.

As LeBron said- he just wants bodies that can suck up regular season minutes. Obviously playing with LeBron greatly helped mozgov as he has regressed quite a bit this year. Mozgov actually played only 17 minutes a game for the Cavs- which is even less than the 21 minutes a game which he is playing for the Lakers---- but that 17 minutes was being soaked up. The Cavs were not going to pay a ton of money for a guy that was gonna play at best 20 minutes a night and wont even play in the playoffs. That just doesnst make sense to spend big money on a guy thats gonna play 20 minutes a night in my estimation.

So James expects the Cavs to be/stay injury free or he's going to bitch, moan and complain?

Bottom line, Cavs have PLENTY of shooters plus a healthy Big 3 (Love has had a few minor back issues).
Losing JR shouldn't be the end all.

As far as not playing in the Finals, whatever, we've been over this before.

As of now, not having Delly seems more important then not having JR, correct?

Now, unlike others, I'm totally realistic.
Cavs will be fine.
They won't lose 4/7 to anyone in the East.
I totally expected the regular season to become a boring , grind.



Also, THIS John Wall is best PG in the East IMO.

 

[WiggyRuss]

As of now, not having Delly seems more important then not having JR, correct?





Also, THIS John Wall is best PG in the East IMO.

absolutely not. Thats lunacy. The Cavs dont win a title without JR Smith. He is VASTLY more important than Delly- its not even close. JR is exactly what they need- another guy that can go off for 20+ on any given night and take some of the burden off of Kyrie and LeBron. JR can get his own shot whenever he wants to- and he was a damn good wing defender last year. Its not even close between those 2.

 

[Kold]

This is the same team(plus Korver) that people said that they had the Warriors number, or were in the warriors head after the Christmas game.
As for Lebron, man if Kobe had said this, he would be thrown completely under the bus(and rightfully so). Lebron is kind of getting a pass for ripping his teammates. Also, not that I'm one to ever care for taking up for Dan Gilbert, but he's gone above and beyond as far as paying the luxury tax to keep that team together. I understand that they may need a backup PG, but Lebron is out of line(imo), in the way that he went about all of this

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

absolutely not. Thats lunacy. The Cavs dont win a title without JR Smith. He is VASTLY more important than Delly- its not even close. JR is exactly what they need- another guy that can go off for 20+ on any given night and take some of the burden off of Kyrie and LeBron. JR can get his own shot whenever he wants to- and he was a damn good wing defender last year. Its not even close between those 2.

I'm talking this season.
It seems like every season, a different player steps up and makes a difference in the playoffs for James.
Last season J.R. was terrific.

However, that is no guarantee that history would repeat.

Cavs have nothing but shooters.
Him being out, which may continue, shouldn't be the end all.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Same could be said about Kobe, Kevin Garnett and Jermaine O'Neal. Those guys turned out alright. Even if the Lakers don't have THAT guy right now, they have guys who can at least be developed into very good NBA players. Then it becomes a matter of getting someone who can be THAT guy via FA or trade.

this is an interesting article that i just saw this morning from ESPN.com insider

Do the Lakers have a star on the roster?
After years of neglecting the draft and the back end of the roster, the Lakers have done a better job of adding supporting talent in recent seasons. Larry Nance Jr., a late 2015 first-round pick, looks like a valuable role player (whose 16-game absence due to a bone contusion in his left knee also factored into the Lakers' swoon), while Black, a waiver pickup two seasons ago, has provided good minutes off the bench. And 2016 second-round pick Zubac shows the promise to join this group.

Still, the Lakers' years in the lottery will prove worth it only if they can develop a star from their lottery picks. Randle and Russell haven't yet shown that potential on a consistent basis, though they could certainly get there. And while it's entirely premature to render a verdict on 2016 No. 2 overall pick Brandon Ingram, who's still 19, the early returns have not been encouraging.

Ingram's hot college shooting (he shot 41.0 percent on 3s in his lone year at Duke) hasn't held up; he's making just 29.7 percent from 3-point range, seventh-worst among players with at least 100 attempts, according to Basketball-Reference.com. Worse yet, Ingram is also making less than 40 percent of his 2-point attempts (39.8 percent), which would make him the 25th player in NBA history to pull off that particular double.

The inaccurate shooting has outweighed the promise Ingram has shown as a playmaker and defender. His 2.8 wins below replacement level by my WARP metric are worst in the league, as is his minus-5.4 rating in ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM).

Naturally, that's partially because Ingram has played more than the typical 19-year-old rookie, but it's hard to find players who have started so poorly and become anything more than capable reserves.

At the end of November, Randle's true shooting percentage was an impressive .572, a dramatic improvement from the .482 mark he posted in his first full season. Since then, it has dropped to .525. Meanwhile, Russell's true shooting percentage has dropped from .534 to .489, worse than his .507 mark as a rookie.

Randle's development is a fascinating case study. According to NBAwowy.com, when playing power forward alongside one of the team's traditional centers (Timofey Mozgov, Tarik Black and Ivica Zubac), he has shot about the same dismal percentage on 2-point attempts (43.6 percent) as he did in 2015-16 (43.5 percent). Randle's improvement, then, can largely be traced to playing in smaller lineups with better floor spacing. When he's the lone big man on the court, Randle shoots an incredible 65.8 percent on 2-point attempts.

Lineups with Randle as the lone big man have scored 113.1 points per 100 possessions, a mark bettered this season only by the Golden State Warriors (113.6). Unfortunately, the Lakers have given up 116.2 points per 100 possessions, as Randle doesn't have the ability to anchor a defense as a center. His improved playmaking (Randle has doubled his assist rate this season) is encouraging, but Randle can only become a plus contributor if he scores efficiently as a power forward.

The same is true for Russell, who has proven more capable of creating shots than hitting them thus far in his NBA career. Since Russell rarely gets to the basket off the dribble and doesn't finish well there (he's shooting only 57.1 percent inside 3 feet this season, per Basketball-Reference.com), that will likely require improving his average 3-point shooting (34.9 percent career).

Russell has actually shot well (43.0 percent) on catch-and-shoot 3s, according to SportVU tracking on NBA.com/Stats. It's pull-up 3s that have been an issue: Russell is making them at a 27.7 percent clip, and since most of those come when opponents go under screens, Russell is averaging just .65 points on pick-and-roll plays, second-worst among players with at least 100 such attempts, via Synergy Sports charting

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'm talking this season.
It seems like every season, a different player steps up and makes a difference in the playoffs for James.
Last season J.R. was terrific.

However, that is no guarantee that history would repeat.

Cavs have nothing but shooters.
Him being out, which may continue, shouldn't be the end all.

this season? who cares about the regular season. Would delly be more important in the playoffs than Smith is the question--- and the asnwer is of course- HEEEEEELLLLL NAWWW.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

this season? who cares about the regular season. Would delly be more important in the playoffs than Smith is the question--- and the asnwer is of course- HEEEEEELLLLL NAWWW.

Apparently James cares.

I think it could go either way. Good JR or bad JR.
Is JR even going to be back?
How's his daughter?

Nothing to fight or debate over, but the Cavs have plenty of shooters.
If James doesn't think him, playing PG vs Warriors is a good idea, then as of now they have issues.

Like I've said, they'll get someone, but regardless, James has no reason to be bitching and moaning now, which was my only point.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Apparently James cares.

I think it could go either way. Good JR or bad JR.
Is JR even going to be back?
How's his daughter?

Nothing to fight or debate over, but the Cavs have plenty of shooters.
If James doesn't think him, playing PG vs Warriors is a good idea, then as of now they have issues.

Like I've said, they'll get someone, but regardless, James has no reason to be bitching and moaning now, which was my only point.

well - if you watched the Cavs closely and JR last year you can see how he really did develop into being a solid wing defender- and with his size and athleticism that is absolutely crucial against Golden State.

If your question is- who is more valuable during the regular season- a healthy Delly- or an injured JR smith that is out for 3 months-- i mean- obviosuly it doesnt matter who the guy is if he is not playing and is hurt you take the guy who is healthy---- however- if you are talking who i want on the team when the games matter when the Cavs attempt to repeat as NBA Champions?--- its Smith and its not even really close.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I'm not sure I buy all this J.R. Smith love. If J.R. Smith is hot, he's very valuable to the Cavs. If he is off, he could potentially lose the series for them. He doesn't know when to stop shooting and will happily go 3-20 en route to a blowout loss.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

well - if you watched the Cavs closely and JR last year you can see how he really did develop into being a solid wing defender- and with his size and athleticism that is absolutely crucial against Golden State.

If your question is- who is more valuable during the regular season- a healthy Delly- or an injured JR smith that is out for 3 months-- i mean- obviosuly it doesnt matter who the guy is if he is not playing and is hurt you take the guy who is healthy---- however- if you are talking who i want on the team when the games matter when the Cavs attempt to repeat as NBA Champions?--- its Smith and its not even really close.

Warriors also added Durant, and Barnes missed countless open shots.
Are you considering that?
As of now, I don't see the Cavs lineup, even with JR as a favorable matchup with the Warriors.

But, moves will be made, prob by both teams.
Let's just wait and see is my best advice.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'm not sure I buy all this J.R. Smith love. If J.R. Smith is hot, he's very valuable to the Cavs. If he is off, he could potentially lose the series for them. He doesn't know when to stop shooting and will happily go 3-20 en route to a blowout loss.

well- just look at the last two Finals.

When JR was expected to be the Cavs 2nd scorer in the Finals 2 years ago- he was a disaster. He is not equipped to be a 2nd option- not even close- he played awful in the Finals - and if he would have played better the Cavs might have been able to pull that series out- certainly if he played as well as he did in the ECF's against the Hawks the series before where he was on fire- they just might have been able to pull it off---- but with Kyrie and Love hurt--- Smith just couldnt deliver as a 2nd option.

Last year- without Smith- simply they dont win. His 2 three's coming out of the half in Game 7 were HUMONGOUS. As the 4th best scorer on the team- and sticking to his role- he is a very very important weapon. In the 4 games the Cavs won- Smith shot 40% from 3. Overall in the series as the 4th option he took 9 shots a game. Overall he shot 36% from 3 and 40% from the field ( the vast majority of his shots were 3's).

In the Finals the Warriors won- when Irving and Love played 1 game combined and Smith was the defacto 2nd option- Smith shot nearly 13 shots a game and shot 29% from 3 and 31% overall. As a 2nd option he is a disaster on a championship caliber team and it showed against the Warriors.

When Smith is that 4th option- and sticks to his role, and has energy to play on the defensive end- like in last years Finals- he was a very very valuable piece. However- when he was the 2nd option, and 40% more shots per game- he was a disaster. The most shots he took in ANY GAME last in last years Finals was 13- and thats when he was on fire from 3 and hit 5 of 10 threes.

there is no risk at Smith taking 20 shots a game and hitting 3 of them if Irving, Love and LeBron are on the floor. However- if its just LeBron and Smith- him bombing out is a real option--- however- if we are at that point where its just Lebron and Smith again- they arent winning anyway, lol thats for sure.

the MOST shots- Smith has taken in ANY playoff game the last 2 years is 16--- and he onl took that many because he was on fire in those games.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'm not sure I buy all this J.R. Smith love. If J.R. Smith is hot, he's very valuable to the Cavs. If he is off, he could potentially lose the series for them. He doesn't know when to stop shooting and will happily go 3-20 en route to a blowout loss.

basically to make a long story short- if the most shots Smith took in either Finals was 16- and thats when Love and Irving were not playing- its simply not realistic to envision him taking 20 shots when Irving and Love are playing- unless LBJ and Irving keep feeding him because he is EN FUEGO- and if thats the case- cool, take 20.

right?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

well- just look at the last two Finals.

When JR was expected to be the Cavs 2nd scorer in the Finals 2 years ago- he was a disaster. He is not equipped to be a 2nd option- not even close- he played awful in the Finals - and if he would have played better the Cavs might have been able to pull that series out- certainly if he played as well as he did in the ECF's against the Hawks the series before where he was on fire- they just might have been able to pull it off---- but with Kyrie and Love hurt--- Smith just couldnt deliver as a 2nd option.

Last year- without Smith- simply they dont win. His 2 three's coming out of the half in Game 7 were HUMONGOUS. As the 4th best scorer on the team- and sticking to his role- he is a very very important weapon. In the 4 games the Cavs won- Smith shot 40% from 3. Overall in the series as the 4th option he took 9 shots a game. Overall he shot 36% from 3 and 40% from the field ( the vast majority of his shots were 3's).

In the Finals the Warriors won- when Irving and Love played 1 game combined and Smith was the defacto 2nd option- Smith shot nearly 13 shots a game and shot 29% from 3 and 31% overall. As a 2nd option he is a disaster on a championship caliber team and it showed against the Warriors.

When Smith is that 4th option- and sticks to his role, and has energy to play on the defensive end- like in last years Finals- he was a very very valuable piece. However- when he was the 2nd option, and 40% more shots per game- he was a disaster. The most shots he took in ANY GAME last in last years Finals was 13- and thats when he was on fire from 3 and hit 5 of 10 threes.

there is no risk at Smith taking 20 shots a game and hitting 3 of them if Irving, Love and LeBron are on the floor. However- if its just LeBron and Smith- him bombing out is a real option--- however- if we are at that point where its just Lebron and Smith again- they arent winning anyway, lol thats for sure.

the MOST shots- Smith has taken in ANY playoff game the last 2 years is 16--- and he onl took that many because he was on fire in those games.

Whatever.
I have my opinion on why Cavs won last year, you have yours.
Cav won, that's all that matters.

Regardless, it means nothing as far as what will happen this year.
If the Cavs have a healthy Big 3, to even try to make any excuses is beyond laughable being as though James handpicked the roster which included use of available payroll.

 

[WiggyRuss]

guess how many times Jr Smith has taken 20 shots in a game with the Cavs in his 2+ years....

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

guess how many times Jr Smith has taken 20 shots in a game with the Cavs in his 2+ years....

Guess how little I care..

 

[WiggyRuss]

Guess how little I care..

just for your info- since you put "Winner" on a post that said its a worry that Jr can go 3/20 and shoot the Cavs out of a game

in the regular season AND playoffs- Jr Smith has taken 20 shots ONCE for the Cavs--- his 2nd game with the team. In that game 10 of those shots were 3's and he hit half of them.

so is it a realistic worry that Jr shoots 20 shots and shoots the Cavs out of a game?

absolutely zero chance--- if he didnt do it WITHOUT Love and Irving...doing it WITH Love and Irving?

no chance.

the most shots he has taken in a playoff game is 16--- and that was once- one of the 2 losses against Toronto last year.

 

[trojanfan12]

Very true to a certain extent-

all though- look at the rookie seasons of Kobe and Garnett

Kobe Bryant

Kevin Garnett

Kobe came to a team that was a playoff team and made the 2nd round of the playoffs- and like KG- he came right out of high school. Coming straight from high school, and coming to a team that was a good-team- the Lakers were a 56 win team. A high-schooler coming onto a 56 win team that made the 2nd round probably doeesnt have quite the opportunity a guy from Duke would coming onto a team thats a disaster.

As for KG- of course he also came out of high school too- though he came to a crap team that won only 26 games. Check out from February on for him though...averaged 36 minutes a night and 13 and 8....he was pretty awesome for a kid that was playing high school ball the year before.


I agree with you that it is possible those guys still develop into "centerpiece" type guys- and said as much in my previous- but i dont know if its probable....with Ingram he still has time to really show something his rookie year- though if the ROY voting happened right now, would he be top 8? I know Russell was 9th.

I think a lot of times you just know it when you see it.

I mean- i dont think there is any doubt that embiid is going to win it- you can just tell with certain guys.

As others have mentioned, different players develop at different paces. The biggest problem that the Lakers young guys have is that there was never any time spent developing them over the past 2 seasons. So they are actually behind the curve right now and it's showing.

The last 2 seasons were all about Kobe, which I have no problem with. However, Byron never had the patience to develop the young guys and never really tried to communicate with them. Heck, Kobe did more to try to develop them than Byron ever did, but he was just trying to make it from game to game and spent more time in the training room than the practice floor.

I do agree though that the none of them have really shown themselves to be "that guy." Randle probably comes the closest right now because he definitely has the toughest mindset. Russell is saying the right things, but we need to see him do the right things.

Ingram is intentionally being brought along slowly which is why he only starts when Deng or Russell are out.

Like Luke said, they don't really have a "leader" right now, so they are going to have to do it collectively until someone emerges.

 

[trojanfan12]

they didnt even play in the Finals. lol.

Mozgov has kind of cratered shooting percentage wise...which isnt a surprise....52% from him is pretty awful for a center. He was up at 57% and 59% his two years with the Cavs.

If Smith wasnt hurt, and Mo actually played like he said he was going to instead of telling the Cavs he was going to play and then getting season ending surgery- this wouldnt even be an issue.

As LeBron said- he just wants bodies that can suck up regular season minutes. Obviously playing with LeBron greatly helped mozgov as he has regressed quite a bit this year. Mozgov actually played only 17 minutes a game for the Cavs- which is even less than the 21 minutes a game which he is playing for the Lakers---- but that 17 minutes was being soaked up. The Cavs were not going to pay a ton of money for a guy that was gonna play at best 20 minutes a night and wont even play in the playoffs. That just doesnst make sense to spend big money on a guy thats gonna play 20 minutes a night in my estimation.

I know. I was just having a little fun with the fact that Lebron is, once again, taking passive aggressive shots at his teammates. I think Lebron's passive aggressive ways are starting to effect his standing in the eyes of other players. I heard that something like 39% of the players who voted in the all star balloting didn't vote for Lebron. There's a reason for that.

 

[TJL]

I know. I was just having a little fun with the fact that Lebron is, once again, taking passive aggressive shots at his teammates. I think Lebron's passive aggressive ways are starting to effect his standing in the eyes of other players. I heard that something like 39% of the players who voted in the all star balloting didn't vote for Lebron. There's a reason for that.

They didn't vote for Durant either, it's because a lot of role player guys voted for themselves, and didn't vote for certain players so that their teammates would have a better shot at making it.

Which is why Steve Kerr was pissed off about it and said the players made a mockery out of their vote.