20 Player NBA Draft Playoff 1 : WLK vs Milk

[Nosferatu]

Why... He was talking about rebounds... If a 6'10 center can dominate a 7'4 center on the boards i would be surprised... Not that height is everything... But we need to at least consider that eaton was a defensive first player, so if he can't rebound, then why is he considered one of the best defenders of all time

You do realize Mourning was a damn good defender himself... You really need to learn that stats aren't the only thing that matters. I do know that's difficult if you haven't seen players play.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You do realize Mourning was a damn good defender himself... You really need to learn that stats aren't the only thing that matters. I do know that's difficult if you haven't seen players play.

well in this case mourning actually had more rebounds... and i am making the assumption that a 7'4 defensive specialist would not get dominated by a 6'10 center...

 

[wlk3]

You thought Johnson vs Price wasn't close... What's way less close is Westbrook vs Davis...

I'd agree to a point... At Westbooks best vs Barons best it's not close when they were both younger, IMO it was close lean to Westbrook... But it was more a frame of reference... I was saying more that was the type of game he played... Also I watched baron most of his career because I saw him in college and loved his game... I may be a little bias but he was a beast on a shit team that he took some shitty teams to the playoffs...

 

[wlk3]

well in this case mourning actually had more rebounds... and i am making the assumption that a 7'4 defensive specialist would not get dominated by a 6'10 center...

He wasn't very mobile... He averaged 10 and 11 rebounds for the year twice... He stayed near the rim and swated shots or made people adjust... When they missed somebody else got the rebound... Nance and Zo were rebounders and defenders...

 

[Nosferatu]

I'd agree to a point... At Westbooks best vs Barons best it's not close when they were both younger, IMO it was close lean to Westbrook... But it was more a frame of reference... I was saying more that was the type of game he played... Also I watched baron most of his career because I saw him in college and loved his game... I may be a little bias but he was a beast on a shit team that he took some shitty teams to the playoffs...

He couldn't shoot worth a shit, couldn't shoot the 3, wasn't even good at the line, sucked defensively. He was a decent passer and had some quicks so he got some steals. Average player at best IMO, Westbrook is special, like in all time PG special...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

He wasn't very mobile... He averaged 10 and 11 rebounds for the year twice... He stayed near the rim and swated shots or made people adjust... When they missed somebody else got the rebound... Nance and Zo were rebounders and defenders...

Nance was only slightly better than Mchale though... so i just don't see how you would dominate... that is all i am saying... i can agree that you are better on the boards... But you said the reason my 2nd quarter wouldn't score is because you would dominate on the boards... and i just think that is an unfair statement...

 

[wlk3]

3rd
PG - Tony Parker > PG - Chauncey Billups
I really like Billups but Parker is a better PG IMO... He's too fast for Billups and I've surrounded him with a very Spurs like team... I think this is a close matchup though I really wanted Billups for my 4th quarter...

SG - Ray Allen > SG - Richie Guerin
I don't think I'd get a ton out of this matchup as this would be a team oriented attack... The better player but that stats won't be much of a difference...

SF - Bruce Bowen > SF - Shawn Marion
I don't think either player would score here...

PF - Tom Chambers = PF - Ben Wallace
I think they bring the same thing on opposite ends of the court... Chambers should get some buckets here and will put Wallace on the line to miss free throws...

C - Bill Walton < C - Bob Pettit
This would be a great matchup... I think Pettit would score more but it would be his job to do so... I think Walton plays a Duncan type game, not flashy but does so many things to help in the win..

Milk - 20
WLK - 23

 

[wlk3]

Nance was only slightly better than Mchale though... so i just don't see how you would dominate... that is all i am saying... i can agree that you are better on the boards... But you said the reason my 2nd quarter wouldn't score is because you would dominate on the boards... and i just think that is an unfair statement...

Because the shooter doesn't get the rebound unless his name is Moses lol... My point was his shooting was one of your strengths and he'd half to shot, he wasn't a great rebounder so add that to him being the shooter it takes him out some also Durant gets a bunch of rebounds at the 3...

 

[wlk3]

4th
PG - Terry Porter < PG - KJ
SG - Michael Jordan > SG - JT
SF - Scottie Pippen > SF - AK-47
PF - Dan Roundfield < PF - Malone
C - Jack Sikma > C - Vlade

KJ and Malone won't be enough... Roundfield is a great defender that actually scores... This one IMO is a huge mismatch...

Milk - 24
WLK - 31

That's how I saw it anyway...

 

[wlk3]

He couldn't shoot worth a shit, couldn't shoot the 3, wasn't even good at the line, sucked defensively. He was a decent passer and had some quicks so he got some steals. Average player at best IMO, Westbrook is special, like in all time PG special...

A few years ago same of that same stuff was said about Westbrook... But I agree Westbrook is special, not sure about all-time special just yet... He must be on year team...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

3rd
PG - Tony Parker > PG - Chauncey Billups
I really like Billups but Parker is a better PG IMO... He's too fast for Billups and I've surrounded him with a very Spurs like team... I think this is a close matchup though I really wanted Billups for my 4th quarter...

SG - Ray Allen > SG - Richie Guerin
I don't think I'd get a ton out of this matchup as this would be a team oriented attack... The better player but that stats won't be much of a difference...

SF - Bruce Bowen > SF - Shawn Marion
I don't think either player would score here...

PF - Tom Chambers = PF - Ben Wallace
I think they bring the same thing on opposite ends of the court... Chambers should get some buckets here and will put Wallace on the line to miss free throws...

C - Bill Walton < C - Bob Pettit
This would be a great matchup... I think Pettit would score more but it would be his job to do so... I think Walton plays a Duncan type game, not flashy but does so many things to help in the win..

Milk - 20
WLK - 23

This might be the one i disagree with the most...

I have
Billups over Parker- but very close
Allen over Guerin- not close
Marion over bowen- Not close
Wallace over Chambers- Not close
Pettit over Walton- close

I have myself winning 4 of the 5 positional matches... Not sure why you have Bowen over Marion, and i think you are very underrating marion...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

4th
PG - Terry Porter < PG - KJ
SG - Michael Jordan > SG - JT
SF - Scottie Pippen > SF - AK-47
PF - Dan Roundfield < PF - Malone
C - Jack Sikma > C - Vlade

KJ and Malone won't be enough... Roundfield is a great defender that actually scores... This one IMO is a huge mismatch...

Milk - 24
WLK - 31

That's how I saw it anyway...

Of course you have michael here so it would be tough for me to win... But i don't agree with Sikma over divac... I have divac better but pretty much a wash...

as for andrei, he was a very good defender and a decent scorer.... Yes pippen is better, but i do think kirilenko can contain pippen.... But of course i have nobody to stop michael here... and michael has proven that he can beat malone...

 

[wlk3]

This might be the one i disagree with the most...

I have
Billups over Parker- but very close
Allen over Guerin- not close
Marion over bowen- Not close
Wallace over Chambers- Not close
Pettit over Walton- close

I have myself winning 4 of the 5 positional matches... Not sure why you have Bowen over Marion, and i think you are very underrating marion...

I like Marion, but as Bowen was a lock down defender... He completely shut down Lebron when the Spurs faced the Cavs... Bowen would shut Marion down IMO, he's usually guarding guys like Lebron, Kobe etc... Marion is no where near that type of threat... Unfortunately he doesn't score much, he is a knock down shooter from 3 though if you leave him...

Wallace is in the same boat as Bowen... Doesn't score much at all, but his defense is special... But I think people forget about Chambers... He was a great score... He scored in many different ways is what made him special... It actually helps him vs a guy like Wallace who is a strength type post defender, while Chambers was a slasher that could shoot at 6'10"... That's why I posted his ft attempts in my stats... Anyway, he'd get a handful a points even if it were at the line, not sure Wallace so of score...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I like Marion, but as Bowen was a lock down defender... He completely shut down Lebron when the Spurs faced the Cavs... Bowen would shut Marion down IMO, he's usually guarding guys like Lebron, Kobe etc... Marion is no where near that type of threat... Unfortunately he doesn't score much, he is a knock down shooter from 3 though if you leave him...

Wallace is in the same boat as Bowen... Doesn't score much at all, but his defense is special... But I think people forget about Chambers... He was a great score... He scored in many different ways is what made him special... It actually helps him vs a guy like Wallace who is a strength type post defender, while Chambers was a slasher that could shoot at 6'10"... That's why I posted his ft attempts in my stats... Anyway, he'd get a handful a points even if it were at the line, not sure Wallace so of score...

I don't see Bowen to be a special defender... in fact marion has better advanced defensive metrics... and Marion was also significantly better offensively...

And wallace is the clear best defender on the court... If you have chambers scoring on wallace then how do you not have Marion scoring on Bowen, Marion was better than Chambers offensively and Wallace better than Bowen defensively...

 

[wlk3]

Of course you have michael here so it would be tough for me to win... But i don't agree with Sikma over divac... I have divac better but pretty much a wash...

as for andrei, he was a very good defender and a decent scorer.... Yes pippen is better, but i do think kirilenko can contain pippen.... But of course i have nobody to stop michael here... and michael has proven that he can beat malone...

Pip is one of the 50 greatest ever, Kirilenko was a 1x all star... He was good defensively I agree but Pip was great on both ends... 8x 1st team all-D and 16ppg/6rpg/5apg career... The thing I try to do is always grab the best 2 way players... Doesn't always work out like that but I personally don't think you can just grab all offensive players or defensive players... Sometimes you get trapped into it or sometimes it fits... I felt like throughout the entire game my team has the most 2 way players so you can't leave anyone and you won't just burn me... But we'll see how it works from here... I'll add older like 50's players dont workout too well because the difference in the game... It's worse than the dead ball thing...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

WLK, this has been fun... I think i need these discussions so i can give fair analysis to other games for this mock...

 

[wlk3]

I don't see Bowen to be a special defender... in fact marion has better advanced defensive metrics... and Marion was also significantly better offensively...

And wallace is the clear best defender on the court... If you have chambers scoring on wallace then how do you not have Marion scoring on Bowen, Marion was better than Chambers offensively and Wallace better than Bowen defensively...

Marion was not better than Chambers... Marion was great off the ball and Nash getting him open looks... Marion was over 20+ (21, 21) twice, Chambers 5x including 23, 25, 27... Bowen was a wing defender guarding a wing player who isn't a big offensive threat... Wallace is a post defender and will be playing a wing offensive player... I think Wallace will slow him but I don't think he stops him, where as Bowen would stop Marion... Not sure what metrics you're using but some of them aren't adding up...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Pip is one of the 50 greatest ever, Kirilenko was a 1x all star... He was good defensively I agree but Pip was great on both ends... 8x 1st team all-D and 16ppg/6rpg/5apg career... The thing I try to do is always grab the best 2 way players... Doesn't always work out like that but I personally don't think you can just grab all offensive players or defensive players... Sometimes you get trapped into it or sometimes it fits... I felt like throughout the entire game my team has the most 2 way players so you can't leave anyone and you won't just burn me... But we'll see how it works from here... I'll add older like 50's players dont workout too well because the difference in the game... It's worse than the dead ball thing...

I could see that... I wanted George Mikan bad.... but then when i read about him he was pretty much famous for goaltending when goaltending wasnt goaltending....

But again, i love the way you sell your team... i do think you get a bias to your drafted team though.... but it is always a fun read...

You did convince me that our match was closer than i thought it was... I originally thought i had the win easy... But you may have sold me on you being better Q2... and Q3 even though i think i am still better, you have convinced me that it is very close... so even if we call Q1 and Q4 a wash between us... i can now see why people voted against me... and that is comforting... since sometimes when i lose i just shake my head and say what the hell...

 

[wlk3]

WLK, this has been fun... I think i need these discussions so i can give fair analysis to other games for this mock...

You've been a huge help in baseball for me so I was trying to give back lol... I don't think I'm as good a teacher as you though...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Marion was not better than Chambers... Marion was great off the ball and Nash getting him open looks... Marion was over 20+ (21, 21) twice, Chambers 5x including 23, 25, 27... Bowen was a wing defender guarding a wing player who isn't a big offensive threat... Wallace is a post defender and will be playing a wing offensive player... I think Wallace will slow him but I don't think he stops him, where as Bowen would stop Marion... Not sure what metrics you're using but some of them aren't adding up...

the one thing i KNOW about basketball is that offensive stats are based on offensive scheme. and tempo.. so just because a player scores more points does not necessarily mean he is better.... thats why i try looking at the advanced metrics WS, Box and VORP... I know they are more made up, but i know i can't JUST look at points...