1980 NBA Draft Chat Thread

[wlk3]

I kinda thought we were all friends...

Not really what I meant... I usually on do the basketball so outside of that I only vote... As a group many here play all the challenges so it's a bit more of a I'll give him the nod over the team... As for taking over Walton and Cowens were both MVPs Walton a finals MVP... I think between them and Walt Frazier somebody can take over... Kiki can light it up 52% career, if you add the passing from both bigs 4-5 assistspg for 4-5 straight years Michael Cooper with the same and Frazier I think he gets open looks... That doesn't fly... I doubt the guys that gave me 8 and 9 know half the guys on Hammers team yet they it got the 8 and 9...

 

[wlk3]

I got one 1st place vote myself. I personally thought my offense was unstoppable. Dr J, McHale, Dantley, World, and Artis with some other big scorers.

You have some scores all of which played with the ball in their hands... Your team is ISO and very little defense... That's not a recipe For success IMO

 

[Nosferatu]

Well, im not speaking for anyone else but I do not take my friendship with anyone into the voting. I simply vote for the best team, I think I ranked you 4 but im not sure my list is at work. I will however agree no way was your team last.

 

[wlk3]

Well, im not speaking for anyone else but I do not take my friendship with anyone into the voting. I simply vote for the best team, I think I ranked you 4 but im not sure my list is at work. I will however agree no way was your team last.

I'll drop it... I enjoy doing this but to receive an 8 and a 9 with 3 of the top 50 players of all time paired with a gun slinger and one of the greatest man defenders of all time is insulting... But for some reason I love the agony of defeat so I'll be back... Sorry my votes took so long, been celebrating the 10 year... My wife had to do some work so I was able to come in and check all of the stuff out... Good luck to the top 4... When do we vote for the winner...?

 

[Nosferatu]

I'll drop it... I enjoy doing this but to receive an 8 and a 9 with 3 of the top 50 players of all time paired with a gun slinger and one of the greatest man defenders of all time is insulting... But for some reason I love the agony of defeat so I'll be back... Sorry my votes took so long, been celebrating the 10 year... My wife had to do some work so I was able to come in and check all of the stuff out... Good luck to the top 4... When do we vote for the winner...?

Tomorrow

 

[UK Cowboy]

Walt Frazier < Magic it's clear cut... >> Cheeks... >> Gus Williams... Westphal shouldn't even be a starter...
Cooper = Toney it depends on your preference O or D... < Squid solid... < Dantley Solid... > Collins...
Kiki everybody is better here Bird as big a margin as the PG margin... Dr J closes that margin as well...
Cowens > Bob Lanier... > Issell... > McHale... >> Haywood
Walton >> Sikma...< Kareem almost 2x... > Gilmore... > McAdoo...

Starter go to my team 3 of 5 on most which means we argue benches with my team having a slight edge on starters... For me to get 8 or 9 is bullshit...

I think you are judging your squad based on their career instead of at their peak, which is the criteria.

Examples:

Westphal ''shouldn't be a starter''(5 time all star). While I agree Walt was the better player for his career, it might surprise you that Walts best statistical season at the point was 23.2 ppg/5.8 apg. Westphal's best season at PG...25.2/5.5

Cooper > Collins.....this one was totally off to me. Cooper's career high in starts was 20. His career year was 11.9 ppg. He never played in an all star game. He was without a doubt a defensive stopper, but Collins was a 4 time all star with 20.8 ppg his best season

We agree Bird by a lot over KiKi

You said Cowens > Haywood. Cowens top season...19.0 ppg/16.0 rpg. Thats awesome, but....Haywoods best season was 30.0 ppg/19.5 rpg

You said Walton over McAdoo...Walton's(2 all star games) best season was 18.6 ppg/14.4 rpg. McAdoo's MVP season went 34.5ppg/14.1 rbg

I think you have an awesome team, and who knows, they might have won in a real game, but I don't think the voting was the travesty you think it was

 

[wlk3]

I think you are judging your squad based on their career instead of at their peak, which is the criteria.

Examples:

Westphal ''shouldn't be a starter''(5 time all star). While I agree Walt was the better player for his career, it might surprise you that Walts best statistical season at the point was 23.2 ppg/5.8 apg. Westphal's best season at PG...25.2/5.5

Cooper > Collins.....this one was totally off to me. Cooper's career high in starts was 20. His career year was 11.9 ppg. He never played in an all star game. He was without a doubt a defensive stopper, but Collins was a 4 time all star with 20.8 ppg his best season

We agree Bird by a lot over KiKi

You said Cowens > Haywood. Cowens top season...19.0 ppg/16.0 rpg. Thats awesome, but....Haywoods best season was 30.0 ppg/19.5 rpg

You said Walton over McAdoo...Walton's(2 all star games) best season was 18.6 ppg/14.4 rpg. McAdoo's MVP season went 34.5ppg/14.1 rbg

I think you have an awesome team, and who knows, they might have won in a real game, but I don't think the voting was the travesty you think it was

Are you seriously suggesting Westphal is on the same court as Frazier... Let's be honest here prime Frazier is >>> than prime Westphal... You can cite stats but Frazier was a lock down defender beside putting up those stats... Please don't play that game...

Cooper vs Collins is an interesting matchup... While I would like to have Cooper come off the bench his career average is 27 minutes a game, most of the time it was 27-29 minutes but his 3pt shooting and defense makes him a perfect fit here... Collins 4x All-Star appearances don't hold up to a 5x 1st team All-defense and 3x second team All-defense and 1 of only like 4 or 5 guards to be selected Defensive Player of the Year... Agree to disagree... I'll take Cooper over Collins everyday... You would too...

Bird....

Spencer Haywood was an excellent player and athlete... But again we' re talking about a 50 greatest player in NBA history... Was Haywood ever even an MVP...?

Walton vs McAdoo... Again we are talking about great player vs 50 greatest EVER... Walton played both ends... He passed.... He lead a team to a championship...

At the end of the day... Not 1 other team started 3 50 greatest players ever... You don't think I had the 1 team... Okay... You think I'm not in the top 4, well I posted how we match up... Still it's debatable... But if you posted this team 8 or 9 that is a travesty...

 

[UK Cowboy]

Are you seriously suggesting Westphal is on the same court as Frazier... Let's be honest here prime Frazier is >>> than prime Westphal... You can cite stats but Frazier was a lock down defender beside putting up those stats... Please don't play that game...

Cooper vs Collins is an interesting matchup... While I would like to have Cooper come off the bench his career average is 27 minutes a game, most of the time it was 27-29 minutes but his 3pt shooting and defense makes him a perfect fit here... Collins 4x All-Star appearances don't hold up to a 5x 1st team All-defense and 3x second team All-defense and 1 of only like 4 or 5 guards to be selected Defensive Player of the Year... Agree to disagree... I'll take Cooper over Collins everyday... You would too...

Bird....

Spencer Haywood was an excellent player and athlete... But again we' re talking about a 50 greatest player in NBA history... Was Haywood ever even an MVP...?

Walton vs McAdoo... Again we are talking about great player vs 50 greatest EVER... Walton played both ends... He passed.... He lead a team to a championship...

At the end of the day... Not 1 other team started 3 50 greatest players ever... You don't think I had the 1 team... Okay... You think I'm not in the top 4, well I posted how we match up... Still it's debatable... But if you posted this team 8 or 9 that is a travesty...

You've got a great team. I just think a lot of them were really really good for a long period of time, but none were the best player in the game at any time.

 

[wlk3]

You've got a great team. I just think a lot of them were really really good for a long period of time, but none were the best player in the game at any time.

How do you explain Walton and Cowens being MVP if they weren't the best player at the time... And if MVP doesn't qualify you being the best, are you insinuating Frazier was not the best PG at any time...? It's a bit confusing... By the way I still ranked you 4th with Westphal and Collins starting... I saw your team as a top 4 team but had I voted you 9th would you think that was crazy...? There is no way either of our teams should have been 8 or 9...

 

[UK Cowboy]

How do you explain Walton and Cowens being MVP if they weren't the best player at the time... And if MVP doesn't qualify you being the best, are you insinuating Frazier was not the best PG at any time...? It's a bit confusing... By the way I still ranked you 4th with Westphal and Collins starting... I saw your team as a top 4 team but had I voted you 9th would you think that was crazy...? There is no way either of our teams should have been 8 or 9...

I agree...but everyone had a whacked vote. I had two 1's and a 7. Ritz had two 1's and a 9. Nos had two 1's and an 8. Shane had 1,2,9. Hammer had 1,2,8. You had 1,1,9....

 

[wlk3]

I agree...but everyone had a whacked vote. I had two 1's and a 7. Ritz had two 1's and a 9. Nos had two 1's and an 8. Shane had 1,2,9. Hammer had 1,2,8. You had 1,1,9....

Of the people that had 2 1's, I'm the only person that got a 8 and a 9... Beside that the voting was pretty consistent... Again it's already been done so there is no point to my rambling, only to say it was pretty disturbing to see a team that started a top 3 PG in NBA history, with arguably 2 top 15 bigs in NBA history and 1 of the greatest defensive wings in NBA history catch an 8 and a 9... 1 is bad, but 8 and 9...

By the way...

Birds best statistical year 29.9 .527%
Kikis best statistical year 29.4 .558%

I think it's safe to say Kiki is a better matchup then he's given credit for... He owns Bird!

 

[UK Cowboy]

Of the people that had 2 1's, I'm the only person that got a 8 and a 9... Beside that the voting was pretty consistent... Again it's already been done so there is no point to my rambling, only to say it was pretty disturbing to see a team that started a top 3 PG in NBA history, with arguably 2 top 15 bigs in NBA history and 1 of the greatest defensive wings in NBA history catch an 8 and a 9... 1 is bad, but 8 and 9...

By the way...

Birds best statistical year 29.9 .527%
Kikis best statistical year 29.4 .558%

I think it's safe to say Kiki is a better matchup then he's given credit for... He owns Bird!

If you went off just scoring, I think Larry and Kiki would be real similar. Larry went 29.9, 9.3 and 6.1. Kiki went 29.4, 4.8, 3.1. That's the point though. At their peak, Larry was better, but it was closer than if you looked at their entire careers. When I look at the teams in the final 4, Magic, Bird and Kareem were the most dominant guys when it came to making those around them better.
I think it would be fun, if someone had the time, to feed these teams into a simulator and see what happens. I'd like to see any of these games

 

[Nosferatu]

When you step away from our draft and think of the best players of all time, Bird probably enters your head in the top 5 at least. Kiki probably not in the first 50 you think about... Just my opinion.

 

[Nosferatu]

I agree...but everyone had a whacked vote. I had two 1's and a 7. Ritz had two 1's and a 9. Nos had two 1's and an 8. Shane had 1,2,9. Hammer had 1,2,8. You had 1,1,9....

This does seem to be an issue, just using my team only one person ranked my team outside the top 3 and that one person put my team 8th.

There just is no perfect way to do this, none of us liked just letting anyone vote and we all understood it was time to change the way we decided a Champ, if you guys can think of a better way i'm all ears...

 

[UK Cowboy]

When you step away from our draft and think of the best players of all time, Bird probably enters your head in the top 5 at least Kiki probably not in the first 50 you think about... Just my opinion.

We should do an all time starting 5 and then rank them to see which 5 appear the most.

PG Magic- no question
SG MJ- again, no question
SF Larry Bird- could argue LeBron or Barkley
PF Tim Duncan- 5-6 legit contenders
C Kareem- Wilt and Russell right there, Shaq too

 

[Nosferatu]

We should do an all time starting 5 and then rank them to see which 5 appear the most.

PG Magic- no question
SG MJ- again, no question
SF Larry Bird- could argue LeBron or Barkley
PF Tim Duncan- 5-6 legit contenders
C Kareem- Wilt and Russell right there, Shaq too

I agree with your starters. I would put Hakeem on the center list before Russell and although Duncan is probably the best PF of all time it's the position IMO where there could be a number of guys you could make a case for.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I agree with your starters. I would put Hakeem on the center list before Russell and although Duncan is probably the best PF of all time it's the position IMO where there could be a number of guys you could make a case for.

Wow, brainfart on forgetting The Dream. 2nd team is more debatable.

PG Oscar
SG Kobe
SF Barkley
PF Malone (though I think Dirk would make team tougher to defend)
C Wilt

 

[Nosferatu]

No arguing the big "O" at the point and probably not Kobe either but SF and PF are debatable. I think Dr. J has to be mentioned at SF and The Big Ticket at PF. No argument on Wilt although I have always been a Hakeem fan...

 

[UK Cowboy]

No arguing the big "O" at the point and probably not Kobe either but SF and PF are debatable. I think Dr. J has to be mentioned at SF and The Big Ticket at PF. No argument on Wilt although I have always been a Hakeem fan...

Can't argue Dr J or Big Ticket. How about a specialist team that could compete with those teams by shooting the eyes out

PG Curry
SG R Miller
SF Peja
PF Dirk
C Sikma

 

[Ritzarmy]

Why can't we move on to the Finals now? The remaining judge won't be a deciding vote and the games have already been decided.