16-17 College/Draft Talk

[Rey]

So are we rooting for Dallas this week?

More like hoping the Vikes lose We're not making the post season and it's not like we're rooting for them to win a playoff game ... we need to get as good a draft pick as possible.

 

[old duke]

More like hoping the Vikes lose We're not making the post season and it's not like we're rooting for them to win a playoff game ... we need to get as good a draft pick as possible.

Absolutely!! Hopefully the Vikes pick will be better than what Cleveland gets from us.

 

[old duke]

Rey, i'm looking at the best player available, hoping it is a WR or CB in the 1st round. those are the 2 biggest needs I think. we can pick up some free agents to help the OL. Draft a RB in the 3rd round.

 

[mannyz]

Rey, i'm looking at the best player available, hoping it is a WR or CB in the 1st round. those are the 2 biggest needs I think. we can pick up some free agents to help the OL. Draft a RB in the 3rd round.

Sorry Duke. Can't agree with the WR in the 1st. They need to get a proven stud. We are dreadful at drafting WR's.

Also, what more do we owe Cleveland after this draft?

 

[eaglesnut]

Absolutely!! Hopefully the Vikes pick will be better than what Cleveland gets from us.

After we lose to the rest of the division again, who are all way better than us, there won't be much chance of that.

 

[Rey]

Sorry Duke. Can't agree with the WR in the 1st. They need to get a proven stud. We are dreadful at drafting WR's.

You don't get proven stud WR's in free agency unless they have baggage ... and even then they are hard to find. True stud #1 type WR's are usually drafted and they are usually 1st round picks. Green-Beckham, AJ Green, Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Deymarius Thomas, Brandon Marshall, Larry Fitzgerald, DeAndre Hopkins etc etc ... every now and again you hit on an Antonio Brown later, but if you have to have one you have to look in Rd 1.

 

[mannyz]

You don't get proven stud WR's in free agency unless they have baggage ... and even then they are hard to find. True stud #1 type WR's are usually drafted and they are usually 1st round picks. Green-Beckham, AJ Green, Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Deymarius Thomas, Brandon Marshall, Larry Fitzgerald, DeAndre Hopkins etc etc ... every now and again you hit on an Antonio Brown later, but if you have to have one you have to look in Rd 1.

All those WR's were top 10 or close to top 10 picks. I did not research what number they were drafted, I went off the top of my head. Dez would have been a top 10 pick if he wasn't such a dick. Maclin was a FA that moved on, Djax was a casualty of maybe the dumbest coach/GM ever in the NFL or at least for the Eagles in the last 40 years. Wouldn't it have been nice to have Djax making the DB's play true? Or Maclin being Maclin. How f--king dumb was that moron for letting them Evan Mathis and Herremans go with no replacements. DJax has hurt us every time we have played the skins.

 

[eaglesnut]

Green-Beckham, AJ Green, Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Deymarius Thomas, Brandon Marshall, Larry Fitzgerald, DeAndre Hopkins

Marshall was a 4th round pick and Green-Beckham should have been.

 

[mannyz]

Marshall was a 4th round pick and Green-Beckham should have been.

I was thinking OBJ.

 

[Rey]

Marshall was a 4th round pick and Green-Beckham should have been.

Meant OBJ ... and you're right on Marshall ... but the point is still that if you "really" want a true #1 type you pretty much have to snag one in the first. Like any position there's always going to be scattered studs here and there in other rounds, but the probabilities drop substantially after Rd 1.

 

[eaglesnut]

Meant OBJ ... and you're right on Marshall ... but the point is still that if you "really" want a true #1 type you pretty much have to snag one in the first. Like any position there's always going to be scattered studs here and there in other rounds, but the probabilities drop substantially after Rd 1.

Will we be high enough to get one of those guys? The best of those guys you listed went in the top 5. Beckam and Dez went later, but that's because they had character issues. Half the guys that went where Beckham and Dez went don't pan out.

 

[old duke]

Sorry Duke. Can't agree with the WR in the 1st. They need to get a proven stud. We are dreadful at drafting WR's.

Also, what more do we owe Cleveland after this draft?

Manny, I keep going back to the new scouting staff we added. Joe Douglas has tons of credentials, having learned from Ozzie Newsome, that you pick solid players, not based on potential. I'm confident that we'll see a much different draft from now on, plus signing solid free agents that won't break the bank. So, i think that Douglas will make the pick, whee if it's a WR in the 1st round, he will be a stud. I think that there are at least studs in the 1st round: Mike Williams, John Ross, and Corey Davis.

WE have only one more year of owing Cleveland any picks, that is, after the next year - 2017, where we give them our 1st, but we get Minnesota's 1st pick. Here's hoping the Minn pick is better than the Cleveland pick.
We owe Cleveland our 2nd round pick in 2018, and that completes the deal. We also will get 2 - 4th round picks that can elevate to 3rd round picks from Minn., and New England.

 

[mannyz]

Manny, I keep going back to the new scouting staff we added. Joe Douglas has tons of credentials, having learned from Ozzie Newsome, that you pick solid players, not based on potential. I'm confident that we'll see a much different draft from now on, plus signing solid free agents that won't break the bank. So, i think that Douglas will make the pick, whee if it's a WR in the 1st round, he will be a stud. I think that there are at least studs in the 1st round: Mike Williams, John Ross, and Corey Davis.

WE have only one more year of owing Cleveland any picks, that is, after the next year - 2017, where we give them our 1st, but we get Minnesota's 1st pick. Here's hoping the Minn pick is better than the Cleveland pick.
We owe Cleveland our 2nd round pick in 2018, and that completes the deal. We also will get 2 - 4th round picks that can elevate to 3rd round picks from Minn., and New England.

Thanks Duke.

 

[Rey]

Will we be high enough to get one of those guys? The best of those guys you listed went in the top 5. Beckam and Dez went later, but that's because they had character issues. Half the guys that went where Beckham and Dez went don't pan out.

I think there are 2 guys this year who fit the criteria of traditional #1 (Mike Williams) or top notch play maker (John Ross). Where WR's ultimately go in Rd 1 is a product of different factors ... I look more at how they translate to the next level and if they are worth a first rounder in general. I was wrong on Nelson Agholor because I didn't properly consider how his game would translate ... instead going more by how he produced in college. To me both Williams and Ross' skill sets should allow them to succeed at any level ... Williams can beat you with size or with speed as well as having excellent hands. Ross has unreal speed, but also tremendous quickness in and out of routes. Both have the production as well to compliment their talents.

 

[Northern Eagle]

We have to start hitting on some 1st round picks - we have missed more than most for the better part of the last two decades. 1st round busts have tortured this franchise far too long, I'm hoping Douglas/Weidl can turn that around. It's going to be another interesting off-season, both in FA (Howie can't help himself) and more importantly, the draft.

 

[old duke]

We have to start hitting on some 1st round picks - we have missed more than most for the better part of the last two decades. 1st round busts have tortured this franchise far too long, I'm hoping Douglas/Weidl can turn that around. It's going to be another interesting off-season, both in FA (Howie can't help himself) and more importantly, the draft.

Also don't forget Trey Brown, College scouting Dir. He's a rising star, and I hope we can keep him. Also, Dwayne Joseph, Pro Scouting is highly regarded.

 

[knowyourenemy]

You don't get proven stud WR's in free agency unless they have baggage ... and even then they are hard to find. True stud #1 type WR's are usually drafted and they are usually 1st round picks. Green-Beckham, AJ Green, Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Deymarius Thomas, Brandon Marshall, Larry Fitzgerald, DeAndre Hopkins etc etc ... every now and again you hit on an Antonio Brown later, but if you have to have one you have to look in Rd 1.

We don't necessarily need a stud WR . . . there are plenty of very good WRs not taken in the first round, notably:

Antonio Brown, Marvin Jones, T.Y. Hilton, Emmanuel Sanders, Tyrell Williams (breakout season), Jordy Nelson, Doug Baldwin, Jarvis Landry, Alshon Jeffery. Some are 2nd or 3rd rounders . . . but there is talent there. I'd love to have a top WR but what I'd like more than that is to have a front office that can evaluate talent and find impact players in lower rounds. They struggle finding impact players in the 1st and 2nd round, though.

 

[Rey]

We don't necessarily need a stud WR . . . there are plenty of very good WRs not taken in the first round, notably:

Antonio Brown, Marvin Jones, T.Y. Hilton, Emmanuel Sanders, Tyrell Williams (breakout season), Jordy Nelson, Doug Baldwin, Jarvis Landry, Alshon Jeffery. Some are 2nd or 3rd rounders . . . but there is talent there. I'd love to have a top WR but what I'd like more than that is to have a front office that can evaluate talent and find impact players in lower rounds. They struggle finding impact players in the 1st and 2nd round, though.

You can find good receiving talent in other rounds ... but the percentages are much higher of getting one in Rd 1. You can say that of any position though ... I'm tired of the Eagles not having had a stud at WR since TO left. Especially when you have a guy like Wentz who has the "potential" to be one of the best QB's the organization has had. If not a stud WR then we need to arm him with a top notch RB ... I'd prefer to give him "both" early on in his career if possible.

 

[old duke]

Dalvin Cook in Rd 1?

 

[Northern Eagle]

Dalvin Cook in Rd 1?

I was thinking about that too - when it comes down to it I don't know if I could make that pick, but he could be our version of Jamaal Charles.