Series Thread: 1) Miami Heat vs. 2) Boston Celtics

[Manster7588]

I'm just going to leave this here.

 

[Manster7588]

As for Butlers final shot. He made the right decision, as he had no wrong decision to worry about. Take the three off of a great look or drive for 2.

If he hits the 3 Boston HAS to score and no OT, if he gets the two it's tied and Boston either wins with a basket or its OT.

There should be no questioning Butler there.

 

[Manster7588]

I think LeBron should have won FMVP in 2015 over Iguodala but it's almost never going to the losing team

I believe Chuck Howley is the only man with that honor.

 

[msgkings322]

I believe Chuck Howley is the only man with that honor.

Jerry West did it too

 

[Manster7588]

Jerry West did it too

See I learned something today.

 

[Manster7588]

So Jerry West - NBA
Chuck Howley - NFL
and
MLB.
The New York Yankees' Bobby Richardson hit .367 with 12 RBIs, including a grand slam, during the Yankees' 4-3 loss to Pittsburgh in the 1960 World Series, becoming the only World Series MVP from a losing team.


Then there are 4 players to win the Defensive Player award in NHL

NHL's Conn Smythe Trophy -- 4


Hockey's Conn Smythe Trophy is different in that it honors the player deemed most valuable of the entire playoffs. Four players have won it while playing for teams that lost in the Stanley Cup Finals, all goaltenders: Anaheim's Jean-Sebastien Giguere (left) in 2003, Philadelphia's Ron Hextall in 1987, St. Louis' Glenn Hall in 1968, and Detroit's Roger Crozier in 1966

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

I don’t care what you are, just at least try to show a little intelligence once in a while.

Says the person who thinks brown is a better defender then Tatum. That reeks of low iq

 

[tlance]

Says the person who thinks brown is a better defender then Tatum. That reeks of low iq

It is pretty close man.

Brown is better than you give him credit for and Tatum not nearly as good as you think he is.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Jayson Tatum sent a text to Kobe before game 7.

Did he reply?

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

It is pretty close man.

Brown is better than you give him credit for and Tatum not nearly as good as you think he is.

The Best NBA Players, According To RAPTOR

Our ratings use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate the value of every player in the NBA, updated daily.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Advanced stat raptor says Jayson Tatum is a + 8.5 on\off defensively, jaylen is -4.6

So they are saying i'm right. That would be +13.1 for Tatum

 

[msgkings322]

The Best NBA Players, According To RAPTOR

Our ratings use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate the value of every player in the NBA, updated daily.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Advanced stat raptor says Jayson Tatum is a + 8.5 on\off defensively, jaylen is -4.6

So they are saying i'm right. That would be +13.1 for Tatum

Oh man you don't even know how you just played yourself. That RAPTOR 'system' is absolute garbage. 538's NBA predictions are for shit. Go back and look.

 

[tlance]

The Best NBA Players, According To RAPTOR

Our ratings use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate the value of every player in the NBA, updated daily.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Advanced stat raptor says Jayson Tatum is a + 8.5 on\off defensively, jaylen is -4.6

So they are saying i'm right. That would be +13.1 for Tatum

There is no such thing as a stat that accurately captures individual defensive value.

But FYI, Jokic had the 2nd highest defensive Raptor score, so he should be first team all defense over Tatum, right?

Raptor has Rudy Gobert and Jrue Holiday as
Top 10 overall players and Horford and Derrick White ahead of Durant. Trash.

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

There is no such thing as a stat that accurately captures individual defensive value.

But FYI, Jokic had the 2nd highest defensive Raptor score, so he should be first team all defense over Tatum, right?

Raptor has Rudy Gobert and Jrue Holiday as
Top 10 overall players and Horford and Derrick White ahead of Durant. Trash.

i'm looking at on\off though. Not the raptor score.

Jokic's on\off was -2.1 in playoffs

It's not always accurate but it seems to be pretty good.

2021-22 Boston Celtics On/Off | Basketball-Reference.com

On/Off Team Statistics

www.basketball-reference.com

Bbref on\off also has Tatum at -7.9 which means celtics are -7.9 worse defensively with him on the bench

and they have brown at +9.2 so celtics are 9.2 better with him on the bench

bball ref is saying the same thing.

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

Oh man you don't even know how you just played yourself. That RAPTOR 'system' is absolute garbage. 538's NBA predictions are for shit. Go back and look.

Their betting odds is garbage but their on\off stats seem pretty good for the most part. Like they were saying Kawhi was a top 5 player by impact back in 2013\14 and i agree with that. While most casual fans wouldn't know how good Kawhi was back then, they just look at PPG, even though nobody on those spurs teams scored more then like 16 PPG

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

But i'm just going by eye test mainly, i know stats only tell so much. I'm just making my point that the stats are backing up my eye test. Tatum was the one who frustrated Durant more then any other defender i thought, i'm also a huge kawhi fan and i noticed that kawhi had major issues with tatum and couldn't score on him. Butler seemed to avoid going at Tatum as well and punished Smart. I've also seen Tatum slow down Luka in a regular season game.

So the way I see it. Brown is a very good\solid defender, while Tatum is an alltime great defender. That's the difference. But maybe i was giving brown too little credit. Tatum\Horford\Smart are all clearly better then Brown defensively though and then you have Rob Williams who was better in reg season, so it's hard to evaluate Brown's defense. Brown is no pushover though.

 

[Manster7588]

The Best NBA Players, According To RAPTOR

Our ratings use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate the value of every player in the NBA, updated daily.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Advanced stat raptor says Jayson Tatum is a + 8.5 on\off defensively, jaylen is -4.6

So they are saying i'm right. That would be +13.1 for Tatum

OK, so you admit Tatum isn't the best player in the NBA.

 

[msgkings322]

OK, so you admit Tatum isn't the best player in the NBA.

Isn't that sort of like 'admitting' the sun is yellow?

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

OK, so you admit Tatum isn't the best player in the NBA.

reg season he was 2nd in Espn's RPM and raptor he's 2nd as well. Only Jokic ahead. I have him clearly ahead of Jokic due to defensive gap and versatility against certain matchups in playoffs.

Reg season and playoffs total - Tatum is 2nd in WAR (which is like raptor's version of VORP) and he's 2nd only to Jokic.

Raptor advanced stat page you have to look at it on your phone\mobile in order to see the on\off numbers i think. But on web page you can still see the WAR and overall raptor stat that includes box score. I like Raptor's on\off, don't really care for them including box score stats. That's the only reason jokic is ahead of Tatum because of boxscore stats.

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

NBA Player Stat Leaders, 2024-25 Regular Season - ESPN

The 2024-25 NBA Regular Season Player stat leaders on ESPN. Includes stat leaders in every category from points and assists to rebounds and blocks.

www.espn.com

click on WINS on the far right. Tatum did this while leading the #1 SRS team. He was robbed out of the regular season MVP in my opinion

 

[msgkings322]

NBA Player Stat Leaders, 2024-25 Regular Season - ESPN

The 2024-25 NBA Regular Season Player stat leaders on ESPN. Includes stat leaders in every category from points and assists to rebounds and blocks.

www.espn.com

click on WINS on the far right. Tatum did this while leading the #1 SRS team. He was robbed out of the regular season MVP in my opinion